best kmc'er v kmc'er match ups!

Started by illadelph1219 pages

Well, I for one bare no bias (except for against MIDER, of course, who tried to get me banned over a Lucifer Vs. Living Tribunal thread, so we do have actual beef).

From what I gathered from reading the Xmen Vs F4 thread, it wasn't so much Creshock twisting Alpha's words, as much as Alpha putting his points in a sarcastic and sometimes domineering tone which garnered the reader to interpret his point from their own vantage point, and then when Creshock countered and quoted, Alpha explained the "true" meaning of his comments, but these explanations were also ripe with even more sarcasm, and just didn't hit home anyway.

Everyone has their own style, but the key to debating isn't purely style, it's substance. That's why I know against some posters (GS, Demi, Alpha, Leo, Manjaro, CC, Jinzin, Whurly, etc.) I have to bring my A game because under normal circumstances they bring facts and present them well. It's a matter of practice for me. Why present a weak argument?

In this exchange Alpha, you were in usual form, but you didn't bring the substance. I've seen you throw the hammer down in Hulk and Doom threads many, many times, but you didn't bring an argument that carried a lot of weight in this particular thread.

Creshock, on the other hand, actually presented a valid argument, as well as efficiently countering the retorts you offered on the actual battle at hand, and he also deflated a lot of the points you made which didn't bare a lot of purpose in the premise of a battle forum debate (like reputation of a combatant versus abilities of said combatant).

He did counter and quote, but from what I read, he didn't twist. The manner in which the points were presented in order for him to interpret were, by style, not presented in a direct manner so he wouldn't have to deduce your true meaning.

Just my observation though. I'm only one board member. It's open to interpretation.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont present personal opinion as fact. Youve proven nothing. You've stated im biased because of a bit of trolling i did many months ago.

Yes, I'm calling you biased because of the personal trolling you did for a few days across many threads and my PM box which you agree to. And while I had nothing to do with this forum. Yes.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not fussed about that was ages ago. You seem to be the one holding on to all of that despite the fact it was nearly 8 months ago. Ive visited threads in the GDF where youve referred to me in a negative fashion i guess that means youre still hurting about the trolling hence the attempt to discount my opinions on this situation. It works both ways AC.

You must mean the OTF, where I named you once in connection with a C-Master post. I've never mentioned you in the GDF.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All this has stemmed from Demi saying you got owned in a thread. So what?!! Just how old are you to be fazed by that. Youve made your point the link to the threads here just stop beating a dead horse. Noone cares whether you got owned or not and neither should you. Its a comic book forum. 😂

I'm not phased by it, I'm not saying to him "I don't want you to believe I got owned." He can, all he likes. I came to ask WHY. I discovered why, and it's BS. I'm not bothered if he continues to believe I got owned. My main concern in this thread alone is why he's denying a blatant occurance.

-AC

Originally posted by illadelph12
From what I gathered from reading the Xmen Vs F4 thread, it wasn't so much Creshock twisting Alpha's words, as much as Alpha putting his points in a sarcastic and sometimes domineering tone which garnered the reader to interpret his point from their own vantage point, and then when Creshock countered and quoted, Alpha explained the "true" meaning of his comments, but these explanations were also ripe with even more sarcasm, and just didn't hit home anyway.

Why is the balance being shifted onto me? Are you denying that despite me continually putting across my true (no need for quotation marks) point, he continually changed and misintepreted it?

Originally posted by illadelph12
In this exchange Alpha, you were in usual form, but you didn't bring the substance. I've seen you throw the hammer down in Hulk and Doom threads many, many times, but you didn't bring an argument that carried a lot of weight in this particular thread.

Creshock, on the other hand, actually presented a valid argument, as well as efficiently countering the retorts you offered on the actual battle at hand, and he also deflated a lot of the points you made which didn't bare a lot of purpose in the premise of a battle forum debate (like reputation of a combatant versus abilities of said combatant).

If you think Creshosk had the upper hand, fine by me. I don't care, your choice.

The notion I'm trying to understand is how you deem it "effeciently countering" when his counters were based around telling me what I did and did not say, me having to correct him only to have him change it. Why is this commendable and logical?

Originally posted by illadelph12
He did counter and quote, but from what I read, he didn't twist. The manner in which the points were presented in order for him to interpret were, by style, not presented in a direct manner so he wouldn't have to deduce your true meaning.

So this means it's ok for him to CONTINUALLY tell me my true meaning even when I presented it clearly and WITHOUT sarcasm? (Because I did). That's what he did. The only reason you are making excuses is because you claim I was sarcastic and he didn't "understand". I wasn't sarcastic when it got to the point that he was clearly being an idiot and I knew that I had to make it as plain as I could. It made no difference.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, I'm calling you biased because of the personal trolling you did for a few days across many threads and my PM box which you agree to. And while I had nothing to do with this forum. Yes.

You must mean the OTF, where I named you once in connection with a C-Master post. I've never mentioned you in the GDF.

I'm not phased by it, I'm not saying to him "I don't want you to believe I got owned." He can, all he likes. I came to ask WHY. I discovered why, and it's BS. I'm not bothered if he continues to believe I got owned. My main concern in this thread alone is why he's denying a blatant occurance.

-AC

Sorry, yes im referring to OTF. I dont recall what instance youre referring to but i wouldnt have mentioned your name without cause to. If you want to believe im biased because it suits your case in this thread then so be it. Its up to you but it changes nothing with regards to your apparrent owning.

Well Ills post says it all and i agree with it wholeheartedly. The threads around for people to make up their minds, stop arguing over a minor point. Youve made your case people dont agree so just leave it. Demi has told you why he believes you got owned so how can you argue with him about that? For someone who doesnt care about people thinking he got owned your certainly pulling off a convincing performance that suggests otherwise. Why would you put so much effort into discrediting Demis reasons for believing you got owned if you dont care if you got owned in the first place?

We all know the answer to that. You need to just let go. Im not biased but in your eyes i guess i and anyone who disagrees with your stance will always be labelled as being so. Either way im not fussed. Its a comic book forum. 😂

Everyone is biased, we all are, so if we are debating the fact whether people are biased or not, its stupid.

Why is the balance being shifted onto me? Are you denying that despite me continually putting across my true (no need for quotation marks) point, he continually changed and misintepreted it?
The notion I'm trying to understand is how you deem it "effeciently countering" when his counters were based around telling me what I did and did not say, me having to correct him only to have him change it. Why is this commendable and logical?
So this means it's ok for him to CONTINUALLY tell me my true meaning even when I presented it clearly and WITHOUT sarcasm? (Because I did). That's what he did. The only reason you are making excuses is because you claim I was sarcastic and he didn't "understand". I wasn't sarcastic when it got to the point that he was clearly being an idiot and I knew that I had to make it as plain as I could. It made no difference.

No.

I'm saying that from my vantage point, he quoted what you said, word for word, without changing your words, interpreted them the way they came accross through presentation, and retorted, and then you in turn, would "correct" the point he interpreted with an 'easier to comprehend translation' of the same point, ripe with yet even more domineering tone, but still adding no weight to the point, and still not hitting home.

Basically, the punches were thown and didn't land, Creshock stuck out his chin for you to try again, and you still missed.

In other threads, I've seen you basically decapitate your opposition with not only your wit, but actually bringing substance behind your arguments.

That was lacking in this particular exchange, which is why I see Creshock having the better of the exchange.

I wouldn't say you were "owned", you just didn't go down quietly.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Everyone is biased, we all are, so if we are debating the fact whether people are biased or not, its stupid.

It is, isn't it.

A mere side issue though; the main issue appears to be:

AC: 'Creshosk twisted my points.'

The other side being- 'He didn't, you weaselled out, and then denied it.'

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sorry, yes im referring to OTF. I dont recall what instance youre referring to but i wouldnt have mentioned your name without cause to. If you want to believe im biased because it suits your case in this thread then so be it.

I think it was Zahit who posted me a link to a thread in which you said "Hey (to a member I forget). Haven't seen you since we took out that punk, AC."

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its up to you but it changes nothing with regards to your apparrent owning.

What happened to not putting personal opinion across as fact? Shh.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well Ills post says it all and i agree with it wholeheartedly. The threads around for people to make up their minds, stop arguing over a minor point. Youve made your case people dont agree so just leave it. Demi has told you why he believes you got owned so how can you argue with him about that? For someone who doesnt care about people thinking he got owned your certainly pulling off a convincing performance that suggests otherwise. Why would you put so much effort into discrediting Demis reasons for believing you got owned if you dont care if you got owned in the first place?

I don't actually care that people believe I got owned, as I said in my previous post which you ignored. I said the thing that is confusing me is why people deny what Creshosk did.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We all know the answer to that. You need to just let go. Im not biased but in your eyes i guess i and anyone who disagrees with your stance will always be labelled as being so. Either way im not fussed. Its a comic book forum. 😂

Why are you once again telling me that I view anyone who disagrees with me as biased? If you think I got owned, knock yourself out. I don't give a shit.

As I said in this post and a post before, I'm curious as to why people are clearly either turning a blind eye to Cresh's tactics or making excuses for them.

-AC

Originally posted by illadelph12
No.

I'm saying that from my vantage point, he quoted what you said, word for word, without changing your words, interpreted them the way they came accross through presentation, and retorted, and then you in turn, would "correct" the point he interpreted with an 'easier to comprehend translation' of the same point, ripe with yet even more domineering tone, but still adding no weight to the point, and still not hitting home.

Basically, the punches were thown and didn't land, Creshock stuck out his chin for you to try again, and you still missed.

In other threads, I've seen you basically decapitate your opposition with not only your wit, but actually bringing substance behind your arguments.

That was lacking in this particular exchange, which is why I see Creshock having the better of the exchange.

I wouldn't say you were "owned", you just didn't go down quietly.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It is, isn't it.

A mere side issue though; the main issue appears to be:

AC: 'Creshosk twisted my points.'

The other side being- 'He didn't, you weaselled out, and then denied it.'

Well without one of the party in question to this situation, it is more or less an infinite loop.

Example of twisting and purposeful misinterpretation:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven.

Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it?

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
Who says he's not? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean that it would not actually happen does it?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Find where I said he wouldn't. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
By making a directly opposite statement to mine you indirectly said it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I didn't. Stop making assumptions to aid your pathetic argument.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's your argument.

Once again, telling me what I said despite me saying I didn't say it. This continued for pages.

Want more?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=362830&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=6

-AC

Ok, this is a misinterpretation on something indirect.

I remember something around the likes of "torch can be taken out".

So if its CAN, than its true. Because torch CAN be taken out, Shuma Gorath CAN come on the battlefield.

Noone SAID it WILL happen, therefore both parties aren't guilty on that behalf.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'm saying that from my vantage point, he quoted what you said, word for word, without changing your words, interpreted them the way they came accross through presentation, and retorted, and then you in turn, would "correct" the point he interpreted with an 'easier to comprehend translation' of the same point,

Stop calling it "correct". It was my point. Secondly, he didn't provide an "easier to comprehend translation" did he? Because somehow it got translated into something I didn't say and my points weren't hard to understand. Why are you making excuses for him? I'm telling you (Me, the one who posted them) that they weren't sarcastic. He didn't provide an easier to comprehend form of my post, because if he did (which is hard because they weren't exactly rubix cubes), they would be my points still. Not me having to say "No I didn't say that." Also, why are we overlooking the fact that he did it here a few pages back?

Told me I had a hidden motive, I denied it. He told me I was lying, I assured him I wasn't. He said "You can lie all you want, I know the truth" or some BS. Is that not enough?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Basically, the punches were thown and didn't land, Creshock stuck out his chin for you to try again, and you still missed.

Well considering he was asking me to show my point, I did, and he misintepreted it purposefully yet again to aid himself, it was out of my hands. I can do all in my power to convince you a glass won't break, I can't make you throw it. I did all I could to show him my point, I couldn't make him interpret them correctly.

Originally posted by illadelph12
In other threads, I've seen you basically decapitate your opposition with not only your wit, but actually bringing substance behind your arguments.

That was lacking in this particular exchange, which is why I see Creshock having the better of the exchange.

I wouldn't say you were "owned", you just didn't go down quietly.

I don't have a problem with this, I just have a problem with people not standing up and admitting what he did.

-AC

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well without one of the party in question to this situation, it is more or less an infinite loop.

I imagine it will continue as such even after the resolution of that deficiency.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I think it was Zahit who posted me a link to a thread in which you said "Hey (to a member I forget). Haven't seen you since we took out that punk, AC."

Quote me. Either way im telling you ive got no problem with you. Conversing on a forum really doesnt get that personal with me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B] What happened to not putting personal opinion across as fact? Shh.

Dont start that rubbish AC you cant handle this here. I used the word apparrent for a reason. Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B] I don't actually care that people believe I got owned, as I said in my previous post which you ignored. I said the thing that is confusing me is why people deny what Creshosk did.

Why put so much effort into finding out why people think you got owned? Ill has laid it down for you. We dont see any problenm with Creshs conduct. Understand that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B] Why are you once again telling me that I view anyone who disagrees with me as biased? If you think I got owned, knock yourself out. I don't give a shit.

I really dont care if you got owned or not either. I just find it funny that you actually believe you can convince all gathered that you dont care.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]As I said in this post and a post before, I'm curious as to why people are clearly either turning a blind eye to Cresh's tactics or making excuses for them.

-AC

Not the case. People are just interpreting Creshs actions in a different manner. Its not a comic book debate where you can find evidence which supports your case. Accept that and move on. We're just laying it down as we see it. It disagrees with you and your stance so i guess that marks us bias.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I imagine it will continue as such even after the resolution of that deficiency.
Amen, but it will be more entertaining...

I said what I had to say.

From my vantage point, the point now being contended:

1) Did not precipitate the defeat
2) Was not one-sided
3) Is given to interpretation

The example now provided, in my eyes, confirms my reasoning on the outcome of the debate.

Creshock said (paraphrasing) "Torch could be taken out."
Alpha said (paraphrasing) "Why, because you say so? Doesn't make it so"
Creshock countered "Why not, because you say so? Doesn't make it not possible."

Am I the only one that sees the grade school playground mentality behind that line of contention?

That's twisting your words?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Amen, but it will be more entertaining...

Not so much a snake eating itself, as two snakes eating each other from the tail up.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Quote me. Either way im telling you ive got no problem with you. Conversing on a forum really doesnt get that personal with me.

This was many months ago, I no longer have the PM nor the link. If this leads you to believe I'm lying I really am not bothered. I think it was to SBO though.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont start that rubbish AC you cant handle this here. I used the word apparrent for a reason. Your point is moot.

Hmm, my point isn't moot though is it? Or do you not understand the meaning of the word apparant? It means visible, obvious etc. Like I said...or...like you said, don't put across personal opinions as facts.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why put so much effort into finding out why people think you got owned? Ill has laid it down for you. We dont see any problenm with Creshs conduct. Understand that.

Let's go back to the three or more times I've said it:

I'm not trying to find out why people believe I got owned. I'm trying to find out why people don't see any problem with Cresh's conduct despite THAT being apparant (note the correct usage). Do you get it now?

Let's do it again just incase. You think I got owned? I don't care, I'm not here to discover why anyone believes that. I'm here to discover why people believe Cresh's conduct was ok or why they're ignoring it altogether.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I really dont care if you got owned or not either. I just find it funny that you actually believe you can convince all gathered that you dont care.

I'm not trying to convince you I don't care. Why are you telling me what I'm doing?

That seems to be the way here. People prove you wrong, you dodge their points, imply something and run with it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case. People are just interpreting Creshs actions in a different manner. Its not a comic book debate where you can find evidence which supports your case. Accept that and move on. We're just laying it down as we see it. It disagrees with you and your stance so i guess that marks us bias.

Can you stop saying that I think you're biased because you disagree? I've said many times that I don't, in general. I think YOU PERSONALLY are biased, yes. But that's NOT, I repeat for you, NOT because you disagree.

"People are just interpreting Creshs actions in a differnt manner."

Yes, and I'm here to understand why.

If you still manage to misinterpret my being here after this, I question you.

-AC

Originally posted by illadelph12
I said what I had to say.

From my vantage point, the point now being contended:

1) Did not precipitate the defeat
2) Was not one-sided
3) Is given to interpretation

The example now provided, in my eyes, confirms my reasoning on the outcome of the debate.

Creshock said (paraphrasing) "Torch could be taken out."
Alpha said (paraphrasing) "Why, because [B]you
say so? Doesn't make it so"
Creshock countered "Why not, because you say so? Doesn't make it not possible."

Am I the only one that sees the grade school playground mentality behind that line of contention?

That's twisting your words? [/B]

I posted the link and said there is more there for many pages.

Why was Cresh so effective in countering me? Here's why and it's a shame you all don't see it:

I continually said my point in simple ways and he kept misintepreting them to aid himself. THEN he countered the point HE interpreted. Which was, of course, not mine.

He set himself up with something he could actually counter, regardless of it being false. Which meant I had to correct him. He did so again, I corrected him again. When my point become so blatantly avoidable, he stopped.

-AC