Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, that's exactly what A is doing. And in turn, AC is agreeing that some views shouldn't be allowed. But, then, where does that end?
Freedom of speech is always tempered by rights to privacy, and especially by the right to live your life in peace (in all its connotations).
Calling for violence against anyone in a public forum is against the law in the US. The neo-Nazis would know this before they took the stage. This hypothetical rally would be shut down, especially given the participants taking part in it. So, then, we're left with them espousing their beliefs. That is within their right.
Just look at all the "rallys" these guys HAVE put together. The leaders of these groups know what they can and can not say. That's why their public speeches are carefully worded...and thinly vield. They always operate on the assumption that it will be Nuremburg 1933 all over again. But, at most...it's a couple of dozen white guys preaching from a pulpit, behind barbwire and fences. The fences aren't there to keep the blacks out...it's to protect the people making speeches and their supporters.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, that's exactly what A is doing. And in turn, AC is agreeing that some views shouldn't be allowed. But, then, where does that end?
I'm not agreeing that some views shouldn't be allowed. I said previously that anyone is free to believe what they want to believe.
However, when spreading hateful and dangerous messages to other impressionable people is what you wanna do and as a result, possibly endanger my life, I'm gonna make the move to say "Stop saying that."
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
However, when what you want to do is spread hateful and dangerous messages to other impressionable people and as a result, possibly endanger my life, I'm gonna make the move to say "Stop saying that."-AC
*Movie voice over*
They were spreaddding hateful and dangerous messsaaaggges.
Possssibly endangering his lifffe.
He made the mooove to say...'Stop saying that. P-please.'
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not agreeing that some views shouldn't be allowed. I said previously that anyone is free to believe what they want to believe.However, when spreading hateful and dangerous messages to other impressionable people is what you wanna do and as a result, possibly endanger my life, I'm gonna make the move to say "Stop saying that."
-AC
But, saying..."you're not allowed to say that"...only strengthens the resolve of the people saying it. To do such a thing in their paranoid, conspiracy-driven minds won't solve anything. Especially in a country where "freedom of speech" is a guarenteed right.
Look, I'm all for not allowing hate speech. I'm all for taking those Nazi twins away from their parents and deprograming them, I'm all for stringing people up in the streets for their hate crimes. Be they white, black, gay, straight, muslim or christian.
But, to do so, makes me no better than the very injustice with which I disagree.
Nazi and sympathy just don't look right together...
And hmmm. Of the two choices available? I don't like pro-Nazi views, but then there is the whole freedom of speech thing, but the way I see it more places should be like Australia - yes, we have freedom of speech, but it is recognised that just because a person can say what they want, doesn't mean they should - as in tact. As such we have anti vilification laws - there can be rallies, opinions and what have you, providing they don't promote racial hate and vilify minorities, the moment they do that it is illegal, much like a vastly more severe case of slander.
So while I wouldn't really want these unpleasant characters wandering around, spouting there trash and glorifying the defunct Hitler and his equally defunct Third Reich I still guess they have the right to, in a legal sense. Still I only hope someone does the classic thing and organises a counter protest that will drown out the Nazi-Sympathisers words of hate.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, saying..."you're not allowed to say that"...only strengthens the resolve of the people saying it. To do such a thing in their paranoid, conspiracy-driven minds won't solve anything. Especially in a country where "freedom of speech" is a guarenteed right.
I'm not talking about hunting them down and going to massive lengths of effort to stop them doing things. I'm talking about not actively giving a racist, facist organisation an open and approved platform to spread hate. What's the confusion?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Look, I'm all for not allowing hate speech. I'm all for taking those Nazi twins away from their parents and deprograming them, I'm all for stringing people up in the streets for their hate crimes. Be they white, black, gay, straight, muslim or christian.But, to do so, makes me no better than the very injustice with which I disagree.
Yes, and as said, it's hypocritical in that sense. Personally, that's one case in which I'll take the label.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not talking about hunting them down and going to massive lengths of effort to stop them doing things. I'm talking about not actively giving a racist, facist organisation an open and approved platform to spread hate. What's the confusion?
-AC
There is no confusion on my part. The confusion is coming from your argument. In this country, where this proposed rally is to take place, there is a law against publically calling for violence against anyone or any group. However, they are allowed to speak their minds in a public situation. Open, yes. Approved, no. The vast majority of public and private citizens in this country do not condone or support neo-Nazi beliefs or actions. However, the neo-Nazis have a right to speak their minds, publically. Let's not forget, that these guys don't just go out and stand on a ladder and speak their mind, like Malcome X did. They have to apply for permits to do this, they have to agree to abide by certain criteria (such as not advocating, verbally, violence against any one person or group.) That's why their websites are littered with calls for violence against blacks, jews, gays, etc. But, once they step foot on that platform, thay aren't allowed to espouse such rhetoric. Once they do, the authorities step in and shut them down.
And you know, once the right people are in power, then I will be all for hunting them down and stomping those beliefs out of existence...as well as the people who espouse them.