What If Science Proved Your Belief Wrong. · Religion Forum

lil bitchiness -

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....
How would that affect your thinking and change your life.

I would embrace it - why ignore the truth.

Dirk Jade Derk Jade the Dark Jedi

Scientist have already tried to disprove the Bible. Many times and many times have Failed. Ex. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

I saw a video on that also...was interesting..

lil bitchiness -

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
Scientist have already tried to disprove the Bible. Many times and many times have Failed. Ex. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

But how does that prove existance of God? 😖

Dirk Jade Derk Jade the Dark Jedi

Because God parted the red sea down the middle then when the pharoh charged his people in the middle of the red sea God let the waters fall and killed the pharohs. thus leaving their chariots and whatnot under water.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
Cool....what about Shamans, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists?....
Lets say science proved that it didn't matter what a belief was, but all go back to where they come from...Like the scripture that says "the spirit returns to go who gave it"

I doubt if science can "prove" that one can communicate with God because science are still looking for God. Communication with God starts with faith in God whatever that might mean to the individual. I believe that anyone who seeks God will find him through faith. I do not know if the spirits of ancesters are the equivalent to God for ex. American Indians. I do not know much about their religious structure other than the role of ancestors spirits. As atheists do not believe in the existance of God or a God a do not believe that communicating with God is an issue for them. I do believe that God is there for them if they should acknowledge Him.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
I doubt if science can "prove" that one can communicate with God because science are still looking for God. Communication with God starts with faith in God whatever that might mean to the individual. .

Though in many quantum science fields, it has been said that there is something that is interacting with us and can be drawn to us...Even on the Science channel, they went o far as to say "this seems to prove there is a god"..it interacts with ALL of us regardless...I've referred to it as the "Law of Attraction"...It does communicate on another level...It is quite powerful...It gives you what you dwell on, and from my own experience, I do meditate and I do get real answers...like right away....I think there is more to what we would call "God" then what most understand.....As with Atheists or other groups, it really doesn't matter at all what a person believes, because what ever is...just is...I believe we are all one....everything...One big conglomerate of what it is.

When ever I hear something...I do research it...and that was my vote...And doing research, I've come to shed my old belief and go with what I have learned which, I might add, started with quantum studies, then it opened doors to what some might call "evil", but that was only a label the church placed on it......If you knew it was proven to be bigger...would you change your beliefs, or try to combine them?

sonnet Angeloflight

Re: Re: Re: What If Science Proved Your Belief Wrong.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Care to back that up by providing me with multiple peer-reviewed articles published in reputable scientific journals?
If the evidences presented held against scrutiny and were proven unequivocably then I'd accept the new theory, however it would still be subject to any evidence presented subsequently. It would however have no substantive impact on my life whatsoever.

Take the E. Coli bacterial flagellum as example. It is a irreducibly complex system, composed of multiple parts including a stator, rotor, drive shaft, U-joint and propellar. The microscopic parts come in focus when magnified 50,000 times with a electron micrograph. All of these parts are necessary for the system to function. Every individual part is integral. If you remove any one part the system will fail to function. There is absolute no naturalistic, gradual evolutionary explanation for this bacterial flagellum. (Michael Behe, Darwin's Black Box, 1996)
David M Raup, an evolutionist freely admits, "in the years after after Darwin, his advocates hoped to find predictable progressions. In general these have not been found- yet the optimism died hard and some pure fantasy has crept into textbooks." (Evolution and the Fossil Record, Science, vol 213, July 1981. There has been fraudulant evidences in favor of evolution submitted into textbooks despite their exposure as blatant deceptions. Ernst Heackle's work is example. He was a German embryologist who altered drawings of animal and human embryo's making them almost identical to prove evolution between the species and to promote evolution. In 1874 his drawings were exposed as frauds by Wilhelm His, a renowened embryologist.Haeckel was convicted of fraud yet his fruadulant drawings are still in textbooks today. The DNA molecule is another example of intelligent design, the incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating information storage and retrieval sysytem with it own coherent language convention. Lets look at the basic formula : Creation states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life. Evolution states that matter + energy+ random change = incredibly complex life. We do not need scientific proof of a creator, it is evident in the creation around us.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
Though in many quantum science fields, it has been said that there is something that is interacting with us and can be drawn to us...Even on the Science channel, they went o far as to say "this seems to prove there is a god"..it interacts with ALL of us regardless...I've referred to it as the "Law of Attraction"...It does communicate on another level...It is quite powerful...It gives you what you dwell on, and from my own experience, I do meditate and I do get real answers...like right away....I think there is more to what we would call "God" then what most understand.....As with Atheists or other groups, it really doesn't matter at all what a person believes, because what ever is...just is...I believe we are all one....everything...One big conglomerate of what it is.
When ever I hear something...I do research it...and that was my vote...And doing research, I've come to shed my old belief and go with what I have learned which, I might add, started with quantum studies, then it opened doors to what some might call "evil", but that was only a label the church placed on it......If you knew it was proven to be bigger...would you change your beliefs, or try to combine them?

I do not regard science as the alpha and omega of information. I studied B.Sc. (Science) at university with subjects like genetic science, Zoology, including evolution, and I finished my Honors degree. I did learn also that there are many hypothetical theories, and flaws in some of the theories so I won't change my believes on the basis of a scientific theory or "proof" but wil let my spirit guide me.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
I do not regard science as the alpha and omega of information. I studied B.Sc. (Science) at university with subjects like genetic science, Zoology, including evolution, and I finished my Honors degree. I did learn also that there are many hypothetical theories, and flaws in some of the theories so I won't change my believes on the basis of a scientific theory or "proof" but wil let my spirit guide me.

But not researching the latest theories and experimenting with them ie..testing them, would be ignorance of what has been found out...and then feeling that only one way is correct and the others are damned wouldn't it?

lil bitchiness -

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
Because God parted the red sea down the middle then when the pharoh charged his people in the middle of the red sea God let the waters fall and killed the pharohs. thus leaving their chariots and whatnot under water.

Finding chariots at the bottom of the ocean can mean many things - there is no evidence the sea was ever parted, nor that it was god who did it.

I can write down that God caused the colapse of the twin towers, and thousands of years from now, someone can start digging around New York and find evidence that there were twin towers and that they were destroyed.

That however does not prove that God did it.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
But not researching the latest theories and experimenting with them ie..testing them, would be ignorance of what has been found out...and then feeling that only one way is correct and the others are damned wouldn't it?

The Bible actually teaches us through scripture to test all things and keep the good. To me that means keep that which is feels "good" in your spirit. That is why I said I will be guided by my spirit.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
The Bible actually teaches us through scripture to test all things and keep the good. To me that means keep that which is feels "good" in your spirit. That is why I said I will be guided by my spirit.

Well that's good, but what does your religion say about the others view on god or not god? And they still have the fruits of "The truth of goodness"....

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well that's good, but what does your religion say about the others view on god or not god? And they still have the fruits of "The truth of goodness"....

My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by sonnet
My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

You have a pretty good attitude,
for a Christian. 😆

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

Fruits of goodness=fruits of the spirit ...OK

Then can a non believer have them, and does it make the after death experience and the destination the same? ....And if science could prove that all go to the same destination then what would that do to your belief?

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
Fruits of goodness=fruits of the spirit ...OK
Then can a non believer have them, and does it make the after death experience and the destination the same? ....And if science could prove that all go to the same destination then what would that do to your belief?

I suspect that what you want to hear is if I believe that non christians can have the fruits of the spirit too. Of course they can because it comes from your spirit and your heart. Love is the fruit of the recreated human spirit. It has various facets such as joy, peace longsuffering,gentleness,kindness,goodness,meekness, self-control and faith. Many people even christians only show some of these facets some times but the Bible says that if we truly grow spirituly we must show all of these all the time and never be guided by our emotions. Many christians have a front of faith and goodness but inside they are nothing like they should be. So I guess even christians could be without the fruits of the spirit. Take the story of Cornelius, the Roman in Acts. The Bible says he was not a believer but a good man and God saw that and took note of his good works. God spoke to his spirit and told him what to do. The rest you probably know. My faith says that the destination of all man will not be the same for the reasons you are well aware of. My faith is not dependant on what science finds because we already know that science has changed its opinion about issues many times as knowledge increases so no my faith will stand strong because I believe in the word of God not the interpretations and wisdom of man.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have a pretty good attitude,
for a Christian. 😆

I'll take that as a compliment. 🙂
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
I suspect that what you want to hear is if I believe that non Christians can have the fruits of the spirit too. Of course they can because it comes from your spirit and your heart. Love is the fruit of the recreated human spirit. It has various facets such as joy, peace longsuffering,gentleness,kindness,goodness,meekness, self-control and faith. .

So then a Shaman exhibiting the fruits would be allowed into heaven?....His religion is a different bases than a Christians...and many sciences would go hand and hand with that of metaphysics which would include wicca....

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
So then a Shaman exhibiting the fruits would be allowed into heaven?....His religion is a different bases than a Christians...and many sciences would go hand and hand with that of metaphysics which would include wicca....

You know what the christian faith says about heaven and who will go there. Having a good heart and other fruits of the spirit does give you a "guaranteed pass" into heaven. And you know that I am talking from a Christian perspective. Science will never proove that any religion is better than another because it is a matter of faith. If I were to base my religion on scientific evidence and change it as the years go by then I did not have any faith to begin with. If science all of a sudden came with "proof" that there is no God will all religions fail and disappear? Sertainly not because faith is based on your spirit and spirituality which is about the relationship you have with God. Spirituality is not guided by our senses. Science is not spiritual because it is based on the physical and senses.