What If Science Proved Your Belief Wrong. · Religion Forum

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
You know what the christian faith says about heaven and who will go there. Having a good heart and other fruits of the spirit does give you a "guaranteed pass" into heaven. And you know that I am talking from a Christian perspective. Science will never proove that any religion is better than another because it is a matter of faith. If I were to base my religion on scientific evidence and change it as the years go by then I did not have any faith to begin with. If science all of a sudden came with "proof" that there is no God will all religions fail and disappear? Sertainly not because faith is based on your spirit and spirituality which is about the relationship you have with God. Spirituality is not guided by our senses. Science is not spiritual because it is based on the physical and senses.

You missed the whole point....If it could be proved, then would you...They are learning new things every day..even what's been learned from decade to decade...it's the IF...I'm wondering about....Lets say we find out that "Everybody goes to the same place when they die...and it WAS PROVEN....and yes I know what the Christian belief teaches.......The Shaman and wiccians will go to hell, or never meet with the bible god, is what you are saying...
I'm not talking about evolution, but the newer sciences..

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
You missed the whole point....If it could be proved, then would you...They are learning new things every day..even what's been learned from decade to decade...it's the IF...I'm wondering about....Lets say we find out that "Everybody goes to the same place when they die...and it WAS PROVEN....and yes I know what the Christian belief teaches.......The Shaman and wiccians will go to hell, or never meet with the bible god, is what you are saying...
I'm not talking about evolution, but the newer sciences..

Do you realy believe that people telling about near death experiences are proof about where we are going? Because I heard testimonies of people who after trying to commit suicide had near death experiences and saw what hell was like, and was given a second chance. If you base your proof on people like John Edwards and his show, don't hold your breath. There are never people contacted who were rapists, or murderers. I wonder why it is only the "good" citizens who seem to come through. I do not let IF make me stray from my beliefs for that would make me like the Bible says, like a wave at sea tossed around by the wind, going here now and then there. This is about people who believes this today and that tomorrow. I am not like a wave that but belief in God and His word and the guidance of His spirit.

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by sonnet
I'll take that as a compliment. 🙂
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

It was meant as a compliment. You do not know it, but you are a Buddha. That is not to say you are a Buddhist, just that you have an uncommon wisdom. Please take care, in some Christian churches such thoughts are considered to be heresy. 😄

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
Do you really believe that people telling about near death experiences are proof about where we are going? Because I heard testimonies of people who after trying to commit suicide had near death experiences and saw what hell was like, and was given a second chance. If you base your proof on people like John Edwards and his show, don't hold your breath. There are never people contacted who were rapists, or murderers. I wonder why it is only the "good" citizens who seem to come through. I do not let IF make me stray from my beliefs for that would make me like the Bible says, like a wave at sea tossed around by the wind, going here now and then there. This is about people who believes this today and that tomorrow. I am not like a wave that but belief in God and His word and the guidance of His spirit.

I wasn't talking about John Edwards....and as for near death experiences...I've heard the same,....though there is a quantum science field that explain what I they call "The law of Attraction"...this is that you draw on what ever you think....so if a person dies expecting to see something fearful, they will experience it....Just like in real live how this law works....positive draws in that Just as negatives do....I have really read many books about near death experiences including the ones about hell.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It was meant as a compliment. You do not know it, but you are a Buddha. That is not to say you are a Buddhist, just that you have an uncommon wisdom. Please take care, in some Christian churches such thoughts are considered to be heresy. 😄

Thank you!! 🙂
I must admit I am starting to look like a Buddah being pregnant!!!! 😆
My personal feeling is that if there is a group of people who realy live among others as Jesus taught us to do and showing the friuts of the spirit as I mentioned to Debbiejo earlier, then it is most buddhists. You realy know the meaning of the word spirituality and spiritual growth. Many christians fail this because they expect to grow spiritualy by training their senses and through physical deeds.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
I wasn't talking about John Edwards....and as for near death experiences...I've heard the same,....though there is a quantum science field that explain what I they call "The law of Attraction"...this is that you draw on what ever you think....so if a person dies expecting to see something fearful, they will experience it....Just like in real live how this law works....positive draws in that Just as negatives do....I have really read many books about near death experiences including the ones about hell.

How do the scientists know what these people see when they die and thereafter and what these people expected to see? I have read many books about this and it always amazes me how these authors seem to know exactly what happens during the process of death, and thereafter and always writing in detail about events that happens in the thereafter. Who did they interview to get the information. For that reason I do not believe that there is concrete evidence about the destination after death.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by sonnet
How do the scientists know what these people see when they die and thereafter and what these people expected to see? I.

Then how do you know what they see....The books I have read have many instances in them....one book was only about hell called "Revelations of Hell"....another was compiled by a cardiologist.

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then how do you know what they see....The books I have read have many instances in them....one book was only about hell called "Revelations of Hell"....another was compiled by a cardiologist.

I don't, and I do not assume to either. No one knows the exact events that take place after death. I believe only God has knowledge of that and those who are already there. People die under different sircumstances and that I do believe will influence their experience when they die regardless of what they might have believed it to be like. Some people will be on pain killers, some having heart attacks, or under severe pain or fear because of the cause of death some might be in coma's. I do not think that the moment of death is the same for a person going peacefully expecting death as after a long illness in comparisen to any of those mentioned previously. And as some of these people are in unfortunate situations out of their control, I do not think that the law of attraction makes sence here as they will attract a experience which they had no control or choice about. I am not afraid to die whatever the cause of death because I believe I know where I am going. It is what you believe that gives you peace or angciety about death.

KPrince I Just Can't Win.

Originally posted by sonnet
I'll take that as a compliment. 🙂
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

Well said sonnet! It is true that Proselytism was never done by Jesus.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16. The phrase "good works" is often interpreted to include proselytism, but looking at the scripture more closely it states "let your light so shine before men, that they may SEE (not hear) your good works". It is not up to human beings to convert eachother, that is why there is so much conflict, and dare I say it...war, over religion.

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by KPrince
Well said sonnet! It is true that Proselytism was never done by Jesus.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16. The phrase "good works" is often interpreted to include proselytism, but looking at the scripture more closely it states "let your light so shine before men, that they may SEE (not hear) your good works". It is not up to human beings to convert eachother, that is why there is so much conflict, and dare I say it...war, over religion.

I agree, Nicherin Daishonin said, and I am paraphrasing, you can know a religion by the actions of it's members. If a religion is true, then that truth will be evident in the members.

KPrince I Just Can't Win.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I agree, Nicherin Daishonin said, and I am paraphrasing, you can know a religion by the actions of it's members. If a religion is true, then that truth will be evident in the members.

You took the words right out of my keyboard. 😄

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by KPrince
You took the words right out of my keyboard. 😄

You have words in your keyboard? Wow! I have to type all of mine in. 😆 jk

KPrince I Just Can't Win.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have words in your keyboard? Wow! I have to type all of mine in. 😆 jk

😆

debbiejo Dreamer

You know sonnet this is a hypothetical question right? 😑 😄

So, what you are saying is that IF WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT GOD IS WRONG....YOU'D IGNORE IT?...You wouldn't even research it?.........and go on in ignorance and rituals according to the doctrines of men....hmmmm?..Your that 1 vote up there aren't you? 😂

And the "Laws of attraction do work in all ways" from the research I've read....It's just a natural law.....

Once you look at things in this mannor, you'll be surprised what you can accomplish, and see how it works in others lives...It's a real eye opener...It's a great way to improve your life, and near death experiences. (That is if you have any).

sonnet Angeloflight

Originally posted by debbiejo
You know sonnet this is a hypothetical question right? 😑 😄
So, what you are saying is that IF WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT GOD IS WRONG....YOU'D IGNORE IT?...You wouldn't even research it?.........and go on in ignorance and rituals according to the doctrines of men....hmmmm?..Your that 1 vote up there aren't you? 😂
And the "Laws of attraction do work in all ways" from the research I've read....It's just a natural law.....
Once you look at things in this mannor, you'll be surprised what you can accomplish, and see how it works in others lives...It's a real eye opener...It's a great way to improve your life, and near death experiences. (That is if you have any).

I know this is a hypothetical question. But my opinion is that God cannot be researched because He is spiritual and not a physical occurance and because my spirit is one with God I trust what I know about Him because my spirit guides me. I have read many books about God and don't just accept all or throw away what I know about Him because of the books. Many people write their own perceptions and ideas but your own spirit must be your guide.

debbiejo Dreamer

When you said "spirit guides" me I almost thought you were new age... 😑 😂

You did vote "ignore it didn't you sonnet'....LOL... 😂 😂 ...That's OK, I wont tell anyone....hahahaha

OH, and how do you know gods a him?...If angels have no sexual orientation how could god?...It's not like god is having sex or anything.

Dirk Jade Derk Jade the Dark Jedi

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Finding chariots at the bottom of the ocean can mean many things - there is no evidence the sea was ever parted, nor that it was god who did it.
I can write down that God caused the colapse of the twin towers, and thousands of years from now, someone can start digging around New York and find evidence that there were twin towers and that they were destroyed.
That however does not prove that God did it.

maybe because in the middle its not as eroded as on the sides for about 2 meters. if all the water was stacked up higher in one spot than obviously its going to be eroded more... which it is. also in that video tape i mentioned there is this HUGE rock like the size of a house and right down the middle is a giant gash. Scientists say that the only way that could have happend is through erosion. Religious Leaders beleive that to be the place where Moses Struck the rock and water came poring out.

debbiejo Dreamer

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
. Religious Leaders beleive that to be the place where Moses Struck the rock and water came poring out.

Erosion ????

And BTW...why would god so above all exclude Moses for striking the other rock? You know the one he was only to talk/ask to give?......Gee and after 40 years of wondering.....Moses wasn't even the problem for the wanderings....