As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.
ANAKIN and COUNT DOOKU move up the stairs. As they reach the upper landing of the General's Quarters, ANAKIN leaps over COUNT DOOKU. OBI-WAN reaches the top of the stairs, destroying TWO SUPER BATTLE DROIDS. COUNT DOOKU holds OBI-WAN in the air using the Force as he turns and kicks ANAKIN out of frame. OBI-WAN is choking.
ANAKIN hits the archway.
DOOKU sends OBI-WAN flying. The Jedi tumbles to the lower level unconscious. COUNT DOOKU spins around again and, using the Force, causes a section of the balcony to drop onto OBI-WAN. ANAKIN spins and kicks COUNT DOOKU, sending him over the balcony. ANAKIN Jumps, following him down to the main floor. COUNT DOOKU and ANAKIN continue the fight.
COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate, you have anger, but you don’t use them.
Anakin regains his composure and attacks COUNT DOOKU as the Dark Lord continues his spin to meet him head on. Their fighting becomes even more intense.
Anakin attacks COUNT DOOKU with a new ferociousness.
Anakin and Dooku continue their fight. It is intense! Finally, in one last energized charge, ANAKIN cuts off COUNT DOOKU's hands. The Jedi catches the lightsaber as it drops from the severed Sith Lord's hand. COUNT DOOKU stumbles to the floor as ANAKIN puts the two lightsabers to his neck. PALPATINE is grinning as he watches COUNT DOOKU's defeat.
___
You know where it says Anakin regains his composture? That's the point where Dooku has an OPEN FOUR SECOND CHANCE to bring a down swing on Anakin, but Dooku holds and waits for Anakin instead of killing him.
There's your script, Escape.
Originally posted by Escape81
Sorgo, lol, just drop it. You won't like what happens when I bring the script into play on the Anakin vs Dooku topic. You might just regret bringing it up at all. I suggest you read the thread on that duel. 🙄
And you would change the subject because...
Nah, I think I will listen to you and drop it.
🙄
But to answer your question.
a) I proved that the script does not always follow the movie's depictions and that according to the script, Dooku fought against Anakin with all that he had, but was simply outmaneuvered and overpowered. And if the script is correct in the Yoda vs Sidious duel, it is the same for the Anakin vs Dooku duel, meaning Dooku got killed by Anakin without 'throwing' the fight. And conveniantly, Lucas mentions nothing of this on the commentary... Hmmm...
b) I was just messing with you, if you can look back on the previous page.
Originally posted by Escape81
But to answer your question.a) I proved that the script does not always follow the movie's depictions and that according to the script, Dooku fought against Anakin with all that he had, but was simply outmaneuvered and overpowered. And if the script is correct in the Yoda vs Sidious duel, it is the same for the Anakin vs Dooku duel, meaning Dooku got killed by Anakin without 'throwing' the fight. And conveniantly, Lucas mentions nothing of this on the commentary... Hmmm...
b) I was just messing with you, if you can look back on the previous page.
It says nowhere that Dooku fought with all he had. Dooku was smiling during their Duel and had several open chances to f*cking pwn Anakin.
Originally posted by Escape81
Ianus, we must consult the all-knowing deity of Star Wars.
Ok. What do you want to know, son ? 😉
The scripts can be taken as sources as long as they don't contradict the movie. Now: Have we seen Sidious with a lightsaber in the last part of the fight ? No. So is it possible that Yoda disarmed Sidious ? Yes.
Actually I have no other reason how Sidious could have managed to get away from Yoda. If he simply did it out of the lightsaber fighting situation, Yoda would have immediatly followed him. In the movie you can see Yoda jumping over from the chancellors pod while Sidious is already on the "higher ground". How did he get there ? Why didn't Yoda follow immediatly ? Where is Sidious' lightsaber ?
The scripts provides an answer for all 3 questions. So why not use it ?
And for the AotC script: It makes Dooku look like crap ?
"DOOKU is the complete swordsman - elegant, graceful, classical - a master of the old style."
The first draft of the AotC script makes Dooku look like crap compared to Yoda:
"Count Dooku's lightsaber is sent cartwheeling from his hand. He staggers back, gasping and spent, against the control panel. YODA jumps onto DOOKU'S shoulders, and is about to drive the lightsaber into the top of the Count's head."
Pff...ok...but the "final" script actually only said that Yoda forced Dooku to retreat because Yoda was the superior sword fighter. Again I don't see where this is making Dooku look like crap. He did retreat or not ?
Hmm. I just re-watched ROTS. Near the end, on Mustafar, Anakin says that he is more powerful than the Chancellor and can overthrow him. Yet during the battle with Yoda, Sidious says that Anakin would grow to become more powerful than him or Yoda.
So was Anakin's statement simply arrogance, or the truth ?
Originally posted by Sorgo
You know where it says Anakin regains his composture? That's the point where Dooku has an OPEN FOUR SECOND CHANCE to bring a down swing on Anakin, but Dooku holds and waits for Anakin instead of killing him.There's your script, Escape.
I really don't want to bring this up again, but I had to respond.
I have the ROTS DVD, and watched that duel for the fourth time in two days just now. About a half-hour ago, to be exact. I know the sequence of which you speak, but it happens nothing like you make it seem.
After Dooku's line, Anakin pushes him back, and Dooku raises his lightsaber in anticipation of Anakin's attack. Might I remind you that Dooku is several feet away at this point. No where near enough to bring a down swing on Anakin. The Sith Lord couldn't have killed him at that point. 😉
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I really don't want to bring this up again, but I had to respond.I have the ROTS DVD, and watched that duel for the fourth time in two days just now. About a half-hour ago, to be exact. I know the sequence of which you speak, but it happens nothing like you make it seem.
After Dooku's line, Anakin pushes him back, and Dooku raises his lightsaber in anticipation of Anakin's attack. Might I remind you that Dooku is several feet away at this point. No where near enough to bring a down swing on Anakin. The Sith Lord couldn't have killed him at that point. 😉
Exactly. Which is why neither the script - nor Lucas, to my knowledge - hint that Dooku was bested unfairly. The commentary states that Dooku had no idea of Sidious's plot to eliminate him; and that he just thought he was supposed to fight Anakin. It doesn't say throw the fight. It said fight. Lucas implies that Dooku was there to 'kill' Anakin, but was simply outmaneuvered in the end.
The script does not hint at Dooku's death being brought about by luck or him throwing the fight. At the same time, it begs the question that how did Dooku dispose of Obi-Wan so quickly and then get defeated by Anakin?
According to Nick Gillard, inventor of the Lightsaber Forms, Anakin had raised a level in lightsaber ability, becoming a 9, and passing Obi-Wan. Effectively, Gillard places Anakin on the same level as the other 9s. Dooku, Mace, Sidious, and Yoda. So this means that Anakin is on par with Dooku, and is very much capable of defeating him.
Ironically, Obi-Wan was neatly disposed of, but managed to defeat Anakin. Yet can we credit this to superior skills than Anakin? Obi-Wan is a master of the most defensive lightsaber form in existence, and it fits his personality very well. Anakin becomes reckless when he loses his temper. He went on the offensive against Dooku and was beaten because he is not exceptionally skilled at offensive tactics, but is perhaps the most capable defensive Jedi we've seen. Anakin is a ruthless duelist, but couldn't break through Obi-Wan's defenses, just like Yoda didn't with Sidious.
Lucas says in the commentary that Anakin was bested because Obi-Wan knew him. How he fights, why he fights, and his methods. Knowledge is powers, and it enabled Obi-Wan to defeat Anakin, only because Anakin's arrogance and stupidity.
So, essentially, this bit of inconsistency needs to be considered.
God those guys are stupid. How can anakin even come close to mace, yoda, or dooku in lightsaber combat? also if knowledge is power then anakin had power. anakin also knew obi wans fighting style inside and out. That gave obi wan no advantage. That means obi was just better then anakin. once again god those guys are stupid.
Now with the fight. the first two are obvious:
sidious
dooku
the normal fight i think goes with sids. now yoda could have beaten dooku pretty badly in aotc. Lets assume that yoda became a tad bit stronger in ROTS. yoda was stronger then sidious yes but they were near equal (yoda was better in both categories but not by a dooku-obi amount. more like a cestus deception Kit-obi amount). That means that yoda, who had improved a bit, gave sids the kind of fight he gave dooku at the least.
Now that is confusing so if you dont get what i mean, just ask.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I really don't want to bring this up again, but I had to respond.I have the ROTS DVD, and watched that duel for the fourth time in two days just now. About a half-hour ago, to be exact. I know the sequence of which you speak, but it happens nothing like you make it seem.
After Dooku's line, Anakin pushes him back, and Dooku raises his lightsaber in anticipation of Anakin's attack. Might I remind you that Dooku is several feet away at this point. No where near enough to bring a down swing on Anakin. The Sith Lord couldn't have killed him at that point. 😉
Extremely incorrect.
Anakin does not push him back. Dooku pushes HIMSELF back off of Anakin and twirls his Lightsaber around and holds it up, which would have bought him a perfect chance to seer down on Anakin, seeing as Anakin's saber was just pushed down and was still down for a few seconds when Dooku was holding his Lightsaber high.
Originally posted by Escape81
Exactly. Which is why neither the script - nor Lucas, to my knowledge - hint that Dooku was bested unfairly. The commentary states that Dooku had no idea of Sidious's plot to eliminate him; and that he just thought he was supposed to fight Anakin. It doesn't say throw the fight. It said fight. Lucas implies that Dooku was there to 'kill' Anakin, but was simply outmaneuvered in the end.The script does not hint at Dooku's death being brought about by luck or him throwing the fight. At the same time, it begs the question that how did Dooku dispose of Obi-Wan so quickly and then get defeated by Anakin?
According to Nick Gillard, inventor of the Lightsaber Forms, Anakin had raised a level in lightsaber ability, becoming a 9, and passing Obi-Wan. Effectively, Gillard places Anakin on the same level as the other 9s. Dooku, Mace, Sidious, and Yoda. So this means that Anakin is on par with Dooku, and is very much capable of defeating him.
Ironically, Obi-Wan was neatly disposed of, but managed to defeat Anakin. Yet can we credit this to superior skills than Anakin? Obi-Wan is a master of the most defensive lightsaber form in existence, and it fits his personality very well. Anakin becomes reckless when he loses his temper. He went on the offensive against Dooku and was beaten because he is not exceptionally skilled at offensive tactics, but is perhaps the most capable defensive Jedi we've seen. Anakin is a ruthless duelist, but couldn't break through Obi-Wan's defenses, just like Yoda didn't with Sidious.
Lucas says in the commentary that Anakin was bested because Obi-Wan knew him. How he fights, why he fights, and his methods. Knowledge is powers, and it enabled Obi-Wan to defeat Anakin, only because Anakin's arrogance and stupidity.
So, essentially, this bit of inconsistency needs to be considered.
That's what I don't understand. Dooku used a different Form while fighting Anakin, he continually smiled during their fight and was trying to lure Anakin to the Dark side. You can't tell me he just wanted to kill Anakin. It's bullshit! Even Dooku sensed his power and mentioned that there was something "Unusual" with Anakin on AOTC.
And Dooku whooping Kenobi and then Kenobi whooping Anakin?
I think Kenobi was overall the better duelist than Anakin.
And Anakin defeating Dooku? I find it cheap that he physically heaved his wrists over Dooku's and used his physical strength to push his Lightsaber down on his wrists.
Originally posted by Ianus
Meh. GL did the series wrong to give Yoda a lightsaber and make him do things like lead the Clone Troopers and impale that trooper outside of the temple. It was very out of character for the benevolent little imp we all grew up with.
No. The lightsaber is "the weapon of a Jedi Knight", and Yoda is a Jedi so therefore why would he be an odd-ball and be the only Jedi who aint packin' heat? There's nothing wrong with him impaling that clone trooper--they were shooting at him, he aint just gonna stand there.
As far as the thread: When it comes to lightsaber combat, I think Dooku would school Palpatine. Even the novel said "Dooku had sparred Qui-Gon thousands of times and knew all of Ataru's weaknesses with it's ridiculous acrobatics."