Did Mace delete Kamino?

mace erasing kamino from the archives? highly unlikely.

Okay, look, Obi-wan says to Yoda and Mace that master sifo dyas ordered the clones ten years ago, "I was under the impression he was killed BEFORE THAT" meaning that he was dead and couldn't order an army, clearly someone was using identity, they probably used that same identity to crack the jedi archives and take out Kamino. And obviously Dooku knows about the clones, as someone said, he commissoned them and was the one to hire Jango, the entire Clone War is concocted by Palpatine to bring him closer to being emperor. It was his plan all along, that's why he had the clones made ten years earlier. He plans ahead. Both sides of the clone wars are being tricked. Both sides are being controled by the Sith. Its all a huge game to give Palpatine ultimate power and an army to back it up.

to get revenge against the jedi for what they've done to the sith. Its a several thousand year long revenge story.

which is why the most apporpriate title is "Revenge of the Sith" for both its parralels to ROTJ and it's importance to the plot when you realize its the whole reason Palpatine has done all this.

yeah it is a tilte candidate for sure

yeah, I know most people know that, I just through it in there for newbies 🙂

and because it was a nice powerful exit for my point...

I have argued the point that it wont be "Rise of the Empire" because T3 used "Rise of the machines". They are both the third chapter and no way GL is gonna use such a similar title in his finale

especially not similar to crap! 🙂

I was always under the impression that Dooku did the deleting...

Ok i will give you all my opinion of who Syfo Dias is and i feel it is all backed up pretty well (better then most other theories)............

Qui-Gon - Heres why (most movie facts)........

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-It cannot be Dooku because they knew he left of his
own will, but he didnt die.

-It simply cannot be Palpatine because the council
knew who syfo was.

-It cannot be Maul for multiple reasons, one being the
only thing they knew about darth maul was that he was
dark jedi and his name was maul.

-In ep 2 Dooku mentions about Gon already knowing
about the separatists.

-In ep 2 Dooku also wishes Qui-Gon was still around.
(perhaps to help him?)

-Qui Gon was Dookus apprentice. That bond is very
strong and the apprentice typiclly follows the
teacher.

-Jedi council knew of Syfo, they knew he died 10 years
before the clone wars, Qui Gon died 10 years before
the clone wars.

-It is not uncommon for Jedi to take up multiple names
( obi wan, Yoda, ect)

-He did not dissapear when he died in episode 1. something ALL jedi do unless your working with the dark side.....

-The emperor knew who anakin was and his potential. As a dying wish to his studant obi wan, Qui Gon asked him to train anakin since he would not be able to. I dont know about you, but what ive read and seen of Qui Gon, he doesnt seem like the knowingly evil type. In other words, maybe someone he knew and trusted, who wasent in the council, had some influence on his decissions (i think that is perfectly clear with his death actually). So in my opinion it would either be palpatine or dooku who told him to do this.

-Gon would also have the ability to delete the planet cords from the jedi library. I dont think Gon thought he was doing something bad by doing this. Simply because if emperor palpatine asked him to go to kamino then delete the cords to this planet it would all be for the protection of the senate.

It all fits so perfectly.

about your points:

It CAN be Dooku, Jango was recruited "by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden" and Dooku is Darth Tyranus ("Welcome home, Lord Tyranus"😉

It CAN be Palpatine, cause it's clear from the conversation that the real Syfo didn't do it ("Master Syfo Dyas was killed almost ten years ago!"😉, it was placed there to let the audience pounder about it all.

you're right, it's not maul as GL once said (or McCallum), he got bisected to show that it was over with him, done, not returning

You're mistaken about mentioning QGJ... he says that if QGJ was with him NOW at this point in time, he would join dooku with the seperatists, he did NOT say that at the time of TPM there were already seperatists or that QGJ had sympathy for anti-republicans

Dooku says this to convince OB1 to join the dark side (hey, I did it, your masters master, and your master would do it too, why not you?)

The apprentice doesn't always follow the master and that's not a point
"Do not defy the council master, not again!", OB1 is by the book while his master was more rogue

And no, Syfo Dyas died ALMOST ten years ago, QGJ died EXACTLY ten years ago (this has been discussed for a long time already)

the only one as far as I can remember with two names is Obi-Wan (Ben), I have no idea where you get the Yoda one from!

and no, it's clear that disappearing is NOT something every jedi would do, than it would be a common trick and if you see ANH, Vader clearly doesn't know it, hence it's something new.

QGJ specificly says "he IS the chosen one, you must see it!" and to shmi "he has special reflexes, it's a jedi trick", he did not get influenced in any way when he said that cause he didn't had contact with anyone, he knew ani was the chosen one when OB1 said that the readings were off the chart.

your last point is pretty weak too, I mean, it could also be Jocasta or Yaddle or even Plo Koon! just needs to be a jedi same arguement about not knowing they did something bad can go for them

so, to me, your theory does not fit perfectly at all!

Originally posted by yerssot

the only one as far as I can remember with two names is Obi-Wan (Ben), I have no idea where you get the Yoda one from!

In the written story of explaining why their is such a strong dark side presence on degobah, yoda is forced to kill a powerful dark jedi on the planet. In the story Yodas name is "Minch".

and no, it's clear that disappearing is NOT something every jedi would do, than it would be a common trick and if you see ANH, Vader clearly doesn't know it, hence it's something new.

Yes every jedi does this. The only time it doesnt is when your phyical body is not pure of the light. Infact george lucas even said that we will find out why Qui Gon didnt dissapear in a later episode. How does vader not know it? He pokes at obi wans clothes, thats it.

QGJ specificly says "he IS the chosen one, you must see it!" and to shmi "he has special reflexes, it's a jedi trick", he did not get influenced in any way when he said that cause he didn't had contact with anyone, he knew ani was the chosen one when OB1 said that the readings were off the chart.

your last point is pretty weak too, I mean, it could also be Jocasta or Yaddle or even Plo Koon! just needs to be a jedi same arguement about not knowing they did something bad can go for them

nice to know about Minch, but it's not in the movies, and I doubt it's in any novel or radio drama, so your point about that just completely fails, since it's not canon.

and no, not every jedi does, it's easy, if every jedi did disappear, Vader wouldn't be all surprised and poking OB1's clothes to make sure he's dead and not just minimized or what ever, it's CLEAR that it's unknown to him and he even says so a few times "OB1 can no longer teach you", while in fact OB1 did by ordering him to go to Yoda on Dagobah! it is a new trick and not about "pure of the light"

QGJ already knew on TATOOINE that anakin was special due to his extremely high concentration of midi-chlorians, he didn't need any advice from anyone about that, not even after getting to coruscant.

Maybe not, im not saying he did. But he sure did have contact with people AFTER they found anakin. Including Senator Palpatine.

oh well, to me it fits even better if it would be dooku

Originally posted by yerssot
nice to know about Minch, but it's not in the movies, and I doubt it's in any novel or radio drama, so your point about that just completely fails, since it's not canon.

Star Wars : Tales issue 16, approved historical story from lucas.

and no, not every jedi does, it's easy, if every jedi did disappear, Vader wouldn't be all surprised and poking OB1's clothes to make sure he's dead

QGJ already knew on TATOOINE that anakin was special due to his extremely high concentration of midi-chlorians, he didn't need any advice from anyone about that, not even after getting to coruscant.

Thats part of the mystery now isent it.
No one knows for a fact what he did or didnt do. We will just have to wait and see.
I'm pretty confident that its Qui Gon.
If its not, its not going to be the emperor or dooku.
It could just be that new never before seen dark jedi lucas spoke of.

to your point of star wars: tales issue 16, read this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f4/t20462.html

or in short: it's rubbish and does not hold any point what so ever

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oh no, it's just normal that when you strike someone he immediatly disappears, that's absolutely normal, Vader just wanted to make sure ob1's clothes stayed down on the floor and didn't sprung up all of a sudden 🙄
I have no idea where you get that it's a "fact", cause he NEVER TOLD IT, THAT's why it's still a point of mystery, so before making things up, make sure that it's not tracable

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I find it pretty weak to say that it's unknown if he got influenced, I mean, he got the idea of anakin being the chosen one while he was on tatooine when no one near him could influence him about his decision, and when anakin got rejected, he immediatly took him as his apprentice, where is the influence in that? palpatine saying "go on! train the lad! I need him later on!"?????

Vaders entire body language says "what the hell happened here"

can mace really do such a thang it could of been syfo-deis to keep his clone army secret from the sith or dooku or other jedi.

Originally posted by LordRevan
can mace really do such a thang it could of been syfo-deis to keep his clone army secret from the sith or dooku or other jedi.

Sifo-Deis didn't actually comission the army... It was "Darth Tyrannus" aka Dooku. (or at least that's the only person we know of so far) Obi-Wan said Sifo-Deis was killed before the army was comissioned, 'member?

oh i remember now he was killed before the army was consructed. Then it could of been dooku or mace. 😄

I doubt mace can have the chance to place the order though