ROTS Obi-Wan (Form IV) vs. General Grievous

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Yet he gave ground like nothing else. Nothing reminiscent of his TPM form.

No, Obi-Wan gave ground because he had to. I have it on DVD. And unlike Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan actually won with a defensive play. Qui-Gon got a hole through his chest.

Qu-Gon gave ground to Maul in the room he died in. Maul gave ground before because he was facing two Jedi.

So.... What's your point, if any?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Yet he gave ground like nothing else. Nothing reminiscent of his TPM form.

Let us keep in mind that ROTS Obi is much smarter than TPM Obi. Obi used some Ataru, but it was always in addition to his mastered style of Soresu.

Originally posted by Ianus
Uh, Soresu is not just how you swing your glowstick; it's a fighting philosophy. Obi-Wan was DEFENSIVE in his fight with Anakin. This is Soresu philosophy, not Ataru, which is OFFENSIVE.

Soresu is the most defensive form. Not "The Defense Form". Practitioners of Soresu wait for weaknesses in they're opponent's defense's and use that to they're advantage. Soresu practitioners also employ the use of counter-attacks like Makashi practitioners.

Uh huh.

Last I checked Obi-Wan ABANDONED the style of Ataru because of its inherent weakness which he realized when Qui-Gon was defeated.

Styles are more reflective of a fighter's attitude to fighting, not his moves. If I am of the mind of a Soresu user (Meaning I focus on a tight defense, close efficient moves, and blaster bolt deflection techniques) and I do a single spin or flip, this does not mean I have suddenly "gone Ataru" for all of five seconds. Ataru is an OFFENSIVE fighting form that emphasises many flips, spins, and other Force-aided acrobatics to effeectively flurry the opponent into submission.

And actually, of all the forms Shien/Djem So supposively has Makashi'like counters, not Soresu.

Originally posted by Ianus
Uh huh.

Last I checked Obi-Wan ABANDONED the style of Ataru because of its inherent weakness which he realized when Qui-Gon was defeated.

Styles are more reflective of a fighter's attitude to fighting, not his moves. If I am of the mind of a Soresu user (Meaning I focus on a tight defense, close efficient moves, and blaster bolt deflection techniques) and I do a single spin or flip, this does not mean I have suddenly "gone Ataru" for all of five seconds. Ataru is an OFFENSIVE fighting form that emphasises many flips, spins, and other Force-aided acrobatics to effeectively flurry the opponent into submission.

And actually, of all the forms Shien/Djem So supposively has Makashi'like counters, not Soresu.

While Shien/Djem So does do the whole Makashi like counters, we have to remember that Shien/Djem So originates from Soresu. Obi did use Ataru characteristics in his fight aqgainst Anakin. That was my point not "Obi went Ataru on Anakin's ass"

Ok then. The fact remains that Obi-Wan was giving ground throughout the entire fight, fighting defensively. If there was no high ground, I'm not sure if Obi-Wan's (or Anakin's) stamina could have kept going.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Explain to me why a Soresu master would use Ataru. Obi-Wan doesn't use Ataru after TPM. Ever.

Actually Obi-wan does use it after TPM for at least another decade, but he starts to incorporate Soresu into it earlier.

This would basically be Obi-wan with TPM saber skills, as he didn't increase his Ataru skill after then. GG would defeat him as Obi-wan's Mastery of Soresu was his biggest advantage.

Is this ROTS Obi-Wan had he not switched forms? If so, i think Obi could still win. Changing made him more powerful but he'd still be pretty powerful even if he hadn't changed. Powerful enough to defeat Grievous, IMO.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Is this ROTS Obi-Wan had he not switched forms? If so, i think Obi could still win. Changing made him more powerful but he'd still be pretty powerful even if he hadn't changed. Powerful enough to defeat Grievous, IMO.

The biggest reason that Obi-wan was sent to defeat GG was because of Soresu. Without this, he'd lose the main reason why he was able to defeat GG.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The biggest reason that Obi-wan was sent to defeat GG was because of Soresu. Without this, he'd lose the main reason why he was able to defeat GG.

I don't think this thread is about if he changed, rather if he hadn't used Soresu at ROTS.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't think this thread is about if he changed, rather if he hadn't used Soresu at ROTS.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, I know. I said if he hadn't changed.

But that's not what the thread is on.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
But that's not what the thread is on.

I think it means if Obi-wan could defeat GG if he hadn't learned Soresu at all, not that he necessarily kept learning Ataru.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I think it means if Obi-wan could defeat GG if he hadn't learned Soresu at all, not that he necessarily kept learning Ataru.

That with other things he has learned since then, such as force powers, increased stamina because of the Clone Wars, ect.

obi-wan would kill GG using any form. and i'm pretty sure that somewhere lucus says that obi-wan swiches forms because thats the only way he can beat anakin since anakin knows him so well and knows that he will only be defensive. that makes sense and sounds like something that obi would do sinces he's pretty smart like that.