Darth Traya and Exar Kun versus Darth Revan and Freddon Nadd

Originally posted by IKC
(Indeed, another KOTOR contradiction. Then again, a lot can happen in fifty years. The Jedi of the times of the Sith War had a Jedi problem to deal with, namely Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. If the Jedi were not tied with the Republic, why bother trying to convince the Republic senators at Qel-Droma's trial not to execute him? Since they're completely separate parties according to you, why would a Jedi's word count any more than a moisture farmer's?)

There is no contradiction here. The Jedi and the Republic were different organisations. They had their headquarters at the same place and they were working closely together but still the Jedi weren't part of the Republic forces. And this idea is not developed by KotoR it's part of the TOTJ comics as well as of the POTF Sourcebook.

During the Ruusan reformation the Jedi abandoned their battle armour, renounced their military ranks and organisation, disbanded their armies and placed themselves under the command of the Republic (the Supreme Chancellor and the Judicial Department). Before that the Jedi had their own armies seperated from the Republics Army / Navy troops and weren't under the command of the Republic.

(Of course his teachings flourished unchecked, because the Onderonians had thought of him as a god for his continuous victories over the Beast Riders, made simple through Sith Magic. Again, he did not conquer the people of Iziz.)

This is nothing more than speculation. As I said: As far as we know he first conquered Iziz and while already ruling over the city he defeated the Beast Riders using Sith magic.
Actually: What do you think he did ? Walk around right before the walls of Iziz and wait for the Beast Riders to defeat them and then walk into the city being the new hero ?

(The Jedi Academy Trilogy is incorrect, read TOTJ. One jedi says, "We will rally all the Jedi -- all Jedi -- against our final enemy."

Another says, "Hey, I'm receiving a flood of acknowledgements from all Jedi. Thousands of them." (Emphasis mine)

And again, near the end, the narration reads, "Thousands upon thousands of force wielders converge upon one small jungle moon."

There you have it. Exar Kun faced the combined might of all the Jedi in the galaxy and managed to survive.)

a)
You know that the TOTJ comics and the Jedi Academy trilogy are written by the same author (Kevin J. Anderson) who basically invented Exar Kun ?

b)
In the Jedi Academy trilogy it says "hundreds of Jedi Knights" which might be the people left after the war against Kun and the Krath.

c)
Exar Kun survived ? Eh ? I was always under the impression that only his spirit was left in the temples meaning Kun actually died in the process.

(Again, TOTJ says and indicates nothing about this. It merely shows Exar Kun strapping himself down in the ritual chamber, the massassi sacrifice, and then the wave of Light Side Force energy sweeping over Yavin 4 and scorching the surface.)

As I said: TOTJ and the Jedi Academy trilogy are written by the same author and when he explains it like that in the Jedi Academy trilogy it doesn't matter if it's shown in the comics. Same author - same story - his interpretation of the powers of the character he invented. No use to argue against that.

(As I remember, Gantoris was killed either instantaneously or almost so. Please tell me what the difference is. Remember that force spirits usually weaken as ages pass. Nadd had only been gone less than four hundred years, Exar Kun was "dead" for four thousand.)

Exar Kun still used the power of the temples on Yavin 4 and thereby powered up his spirit (again told in the Jedi Academy trilogy). Just think about the fact that Kun could directly influence events and do things 4,000 years after his death where Ragnos (who's arguably the most powerful Sith ever) couldn't do the same 1,000 years after his death and got pretty much pwned in spirit form by a Padawan.

(The point about Ommin is that since he was Nadd's puppet, he was dependant on him for power. Thus, Nadd's power is easily greater than Ommin's own, especially since Ommin is his descendent.)

What the hell ? How would Ommin be dependant on Nadd for power ? Nadd is a spirit and while he gives orders to Ommin, Ommin was still using his own force powers and not Nadd's. And of course Nadd's power is greater than Ommins - he instakilled Ommin even though he was only a spirit. And may I remind you that Exar Kun wasn't able to defeat Nadd's spirit before he found the Sith amulett boosting his force powers. So Nadd's spirit was more powerful than Exar - doesn't look like Nadd could only "own" his descendants.

(He took Iziz because the people there were fascinated by his abilities. He did not conquer it. They were even more-so fascinated and worshipful of him after he fought the beast riders.)

Again. What did you think he did to gain control over Iziz ? He must have impressed the people somehow and having a look at Nadd's personality he most likely did it with kicking some people badly. Or do you think he just went into the city used Sith lightning or force choke on Random Citizen X and boom he was the king ?

(Indeed they were. Nomi Sunrider was able to dispel Aleema Keto's sith illusions rather easily, being as talented as she was with battle meditation. However, Arca was much better than she was at that point. As well, Nadd, who taught the Ketos, hated Arca. This made him a target of the Krath)

So the Krath did only assassinate Arca because he's the biggest thread there (being the best in battle meditation he must have some high amount of force knowledge / force powers) and they ignored all other "threats" present because of what ?

(Do you really think Sadow would have taught Nadd everything he knew? Absolutely not, he was a Sith, and not a stupid one. Exar Kun, however, has learned by his death everything (or almost everything) Sadow and his followers had ever written down, as well as secrets from Korriban and Nadd's tomb on Dxun and ancient Jedi secrets from Ossus. And don't bust out Ragnos. For one, spirits get weaker with age, and second his true power is an unknown quantity.)

Oh great. Now you want to tell me that Sadow didn't teach everything to Nadd but has written down anything he knew for Exar ? Nice joke. Exar Kun visited Korriban after Nadd so whatever Nadd found there was no longer present (for some secrets only Nadd might have known them and never taught Exar and for artifacts Nadd found there: they were on Onderon) and he would have found nothing in Nadd's tomb that Nadd himself didn't leave there. So still Nadd had more artifacts / knowledge than Exar.

(Do some homework. TOTJ: Dark Lords of the Sith - "With the Force, Vodo can make his simple staff more powerful than Exar Kun's lightsaber!"😉

He can make his staff able to deflect lightsaber hits. Can he cut somebody down with it ? Hardly...

(Tell me where it's mentioned explicitly that he wanted to kill Sadow. And from what I understand, Nadd went to Korriban after leaving Yavin 4, and then to Onderon.)

Nadd was a Sith. Overpowering the master is the goal of the entire Sith philosophy. Unfortunately I don't have the comics at hand but it's clearly said that Nadd wanted to challenge Sadow so why would he leave Yavin 4 without having tried it ?

(Absolutely. I know people will argue for Nihilus, but he's an anomaly.)

I've seen that peope argued that Revan can take him (because Revan had an entire world filled with Sith informations back from the days of the true Sith Empire), Malak was his apprentice, Kreia is capable of killing 3 Jedi Masters at once with a hand movement (have we ever seen Kun doing something like that ?) and Nihilus would simply drain Kun. Still Kun is leagues above them ?

Actually: What do you think he did ? Walk around right before the walls of Iziz and wait for the Beast Riders to defeat them and then walk into the city being the new hero ?

What did you think he did to gain control over Iziz ? He must have impressed the people somehow and having a look at Nadd's personality he most likely did it with kicking some people badly. Or do you think he just went into the city used Sith lightning or force choke on Random Citizen X and boom he was the king ?

Pretty much, though I imagine he had already established himself as a great figure in Iziz public life by "showing off" his power. Defeating the Beast Riders would have only solidified his position and increased public support for his rule. Your last statement is absolutely not my position, and by saying what you said before you support my actual position.

I stated that Nadd did not conquer Iziz, that he took it over by impressing and protecting its inhabitants with his power and promising more of it to them.

You know that the TOTJ comics and the Jedi Academy trilogy are written by the same author (Kevin J. Anderson) who basically invented Exar Kun ?

Yes, and TOTJ was written afterwards and concerns the life of Exar Kun, making it a better source than what one knew post-ROTJ.

In the Jedi Academy trilogy it says "hundreds of Jedi Knights" which might be the people left after the war against Kun and the Krath.

Again, the Jedi Academy trilogy is nullified. Tens of thousands of Jedi, all of the Jedi in the galaxy, appeared above Yavin 4 to defeat Exar Kun. Not many Jedi were killed in the Sith War, which was not so much a war as it was a few spectacular acts of terrorism. Most of the Jedi killed were the old masters assassinated by Kun's converts and Kun himself. Read Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith War.

Exar Kun survived ? Eh ? I was always under the impression that only his spirit was left in the temples meaning Kun actually died in the process.

He survived inasmuch as he had the Massassi sacrifice themselves to release his spirit to run rampant throughout the galaxy. Nobody killed him. Read the comics. The victory the Jedi won that day was to confine Kun to Yavin 4, specifically the temples.

Just think about the fact that Kun could directly influence events and do things 4,000 years after his death where Ragnos (who's arguably the most powerful Sith ever) couldn't do the same 1,000 years after his death and got pretty much pwned in spirit form by a Padawan.

For one, Ragnos is assumed to be the most powerful Sith. I made what I believe to be a good proposal elsewhere suggesting we overestimate him. And he was dead for far longer than 1,000 years at the time of JA.

What the hell ? How would Ommin be dependant on Nadd for power ? Nadd is a spirit and while he gives orders to Ommin, Ommin was still using his own force powers and not Nadd's. And of course Nadd's power is greater than Ommins - he instakilled Ommin even though he was only a spirit. And may I remind you that Exar Kun wasn't able to defeat Nadd's spirit before he found the Sith amulett boosting his force powers. So Nadd's spirit was more powerful than Exar - doesn't look like Nadd could only "own" his descendants.

For one, Ommin's dependent on Nadd for power because Nadd is the source of the dark side on Onderon. As well, he's the only one with the knowledge to teach its techniques. To reiterate, Nadd killed a puppet of his, a puppet that most likely was not expecting such a betrayal.

And it's ridiculous to compare the Exar Kun that Nadd knew to what we term the "Uber-Kun," who is exponentially more powerful at the end of the Sith War. That power is not entirely due to Sadow's amulet, which Kun wore. Before he embraced the Dark Side completely he was very weak. Even after he did so, he was only an equal to Ulic Qel-Droma, but he could still defeat Nadd's spirit with ease. However, after the months passed and Sith War commenced, Exar Kun's power rose much higher than Ulic's could ever reach. This is why Kun would be more than a match for the living Nadd.

So the Krath did only assassinate Arca because he's the biggest thread there (being the best in battle meditation he must have some high amount of force knowledge / force powers) and they ignored all other "threats" present because of what?

I believe I already stated this. The Krath learned what they knew because of Freedon Nadd. Nadd hated Arca. Thus, the Krath hated Arca. The Krath did not ignore other threats, but they succeeded at their attempt to kill Arca.

Oh great. Now you want to tell me that Sadow didn't teach everything to Nadd but has written down anything he knew for Exar ? Nice joke. Exar Kun visited Korriban after Nadd so whatever Nadd found there was no longer present (for some secrets only Nadd might have known them and never taught Exar and for artifacts Nadd found there: they were on Onderon) and he would have found nothing in Nadd's tomb that Nadd himself didn't leave there. So still Nadd had more artifacts / knowledge than Exar.

Incorrect. Nadd couldn't even come close to Sadow's real knowledge, alchemical devices, and ship. Why? Because all of it was protected by a monstrosity that Sadow had created which Exar Kun killed. Even though Nadd went to Korriban first, Kun went to Nadd's tomb and took the scrolls and other artifacts Nadd possessed. Nadd had nowhere near the amount of artifacts and knowledge Exar had, especially when you take into account the spoils Kun gained from Ossus.

He can make his staff able to deflect lightsaber hits. Can he cut somebody down with it ? Hardly...

Obviously he thought he could defeat him with it, because Vodo deliberately confronted Exar in the Senate with the intent to stop him.

Nadd was a Sith. Overpowering the master is the goal of the entire Sith philosophy. Unfortunately I don't have the comics at hand but it's clearly said that Nadd wanted to challenge Sadow so why would he leave Yavin 4 without having tried it?

You're making assumptions. Nadd knew he'd never be more than an acolyte in the Sith order, that's why he left to create his own empire starting at Onderon. Nadd was never to be the Dark Lord.

I've seen that peope argued that Revan can take him (because Revan had an entire world filled with Sith informations back from the days of the true Sith Empire), Malak was his apprentice, Kreia is capable of killing 3 Jedi Masters at once with a hand movement (have we ever seen Kun doing something like that ?) and Nihilus would simply drain Kun. Still Kun is leagues above them?

I've seen people argue that suited Vader could take Yoda. Kun's knowledge and power far surpass everyone you've mentioned. The only one to come close in knowledge is maybe Kreia, but he overwhelms her in power. Kun is leagues above all of them. And, like I said, Nihilus is an anomaly.

You know, I forgot something:

Kreia is capable of killing 3 Jedi Masters at once with a hand movement (have we ever seen Kun doing something like that?)

Yes we have. Exar Kun killed Odan-Urr on Ossus (The Jedi planet) with a "hand movement." Odan-Urr would have trashed all three of the masters Kreia had killed easily, given he's even older than Vodo Baas (was alive during the time of Naga Sadow) and can blind people to the force instantaneously (as he tried to do to Kun, but failed).

I mention that Exar killed him on Ossus because merely being the Dark Lord of the Sith on that planet is a hell of a feat in itself. But killing a Jedi Master with the Force and still remaining undetected? Kun's soon-to-be-converts (Jedi Knights themselves) came into the room moments after Kun killed Odan-Urr, yet Kun convinced them he died of old age and declared Kun a Jedi Master. That's a testament to Kun's skill.

That's beside the point. The conclusion is, Exar Kun can instakill.

Originally posted by IKC
Pretty much, though I imagine he had already established himself as a great figure in Iziz public life by "showing off" his power. Defeating the Beast Riders would have only solidified his position and increased public support for his rule. Your last statement is absolutely not my position, and by saying what you said before you support my actual position.

I stated that Nadd did not conquer Iziz, that he took it over by impressing and protecting its inhabitants with his power and promising more of it to them.

Oh. You "imagine" something and therefore it must be true ? Nice try.

Yes, and TOTJ was written afterwards and concerns the life of Exar Kun, making it a better source than what one knew post-ROTJ.

So you're trying to tell me that something which was explained in detail in the books never happened because it's not shown in the comics despite the fact that both things are coming from the same author and the comics were written later ? I don't see any logic in that.

Again, the Jedi Academy trilogy is nullified. Tens of thousands of Jedi, all of the Jedi in the galaxy, appeared above Yavin 4 to defeat Exar Kun. Not many Jedi were killed in the Sith War, which was not so much a war as it was a few spectacular acts of terrorism. Most of the Jedi killed were the old masters assassinated by Kun's converts and Kun himself. Read Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith War.

I pretty much don't care if there were "hundreds" or "thousands" of Jedi Knights above Yavin 4. The point was that Exar needed the temples and a Sith Ritual to drain the lifeforce of the Massasi to remain "alive" as a spirit while Nadd did the very same thing without having the temples and without draining people's lifeforce.
And despite the fact that Exar used the power of the templen when he was a spirit, Nadd's spirit still seemed to be more impressive.

For one, Ommin's dependent on Nadd for power because Nadd is the source of the dark side on Onderon. As well, he's the only one with the knowledge to teach its techniques. To reiterate, Nadd killed a puppet of his, a puppet that most likely was not expecting such a betrayal.

Nadd was the source for Dark Side knowledge on Onderon but how does that make Ommin a puppet of Nadd ? That's like saying that every Sith apprentice was only a puppet of his master.

And it's ridiculous to compare the Exar Kun that Nadd knew to what we term the "Uber-Kun," who is exponentially more powerful at the end of the Sith War. That power is not entirely due to Sadow's amulet, which Kun wore. Before he embraced the Dark Side completely he was very weak. Even after he did so, he was only an equal to Ulic Qel-Droma, but he could still defeat Nadd's spirit with ease. However, after the months passed and Sith War commenced, Exar Kun's power rose much higher than Ulic's could ever reach. This is why Kun would be more than a match for the living Nadd.

That's randomly drawing conclusions.
First: Exar and Ulic at the point of their duel were both very powerful beings. Vodo thought of Exar being one of the best or even the best students he had and Ulic was naturally gifted with the force and in lightsaber combat.
If it takes that skill level (which would be on par or above people like Dooku or Mace Windu) to defeat Nadd's ionized air particles than Nadd's spirit must have been very powerful and Nadd himself would even have been more powerful.

Incorrect. Nadd couldn't even come close to Sadow's real knowledge, alchemical devices, and ship. Why? Because all of it was protected by a monstrosity that Sadow had created which Exar Kun killed. Even though Nadd went to Korriban first, Kun went to Nadd's tomb and took the scrolls and other artifacts Nadd possessed. Nadd had nowhere near the amount of artifacts and knowledge Exar had, especially when you take into account the spoils Kun gained from Ossus.

What the hell have Sadow's ship an alchemical devices to do with knowledge ? Nadd was trained by the living Sadow at a time when Sadow might not even have created the monstrosity to guard his ship or achemical devices. And we know that by far not everything Nadd had from Korriban was stored in Nadd's tomb since we have many things on Onderon that were used by his descendants.
So basically Exar (just talking about knowledge) had just the things he learned from Nadd himself (which is most likely not everything Nadd himself knew) and things he stole from Ossus (the place where Nadd was trained first to become a Jedi Knight if I may remind you). And that should give him far more knowledge than Nadd had ? Very questionable...

Obviously he thought he could defeat him with it, because Vodo deliberately confronted Exar in the Senate with the intent to stop him.

Obviously they had fought before and Vodo knew that he wasn't able to defeat Exar with it.

You're making assumptions. Nadd knew he'd never be more than an acolyte in the Sith order, that's why he left to create his own empire starting at Onderon. Nadd was never to be the Dark Lord.

Nadd thought he could never be more than an acolyte because he knew that their could only be a single Dark Lord at any time meaning if he wasn't able to defeat Sadow (and he most likely tried to do so) that would have given him the perfect reason to go to Onderon and install his own Sith Empire there because he knew that he couldn't be the Dark Lord as long as Sadow was alive on Yavin 4.

I've seen people argue that suited Vader could take Yoda. Kun's knowledge and power far surpass everyone you've mentioned.

Now you're the one making assumptions. Revan had an entire planet filled with knowledge by the ancient Sith Lords (Malachor V) and we know that he was gifted with some huge amount of potential. So he actually could be more powerful than Exar. Same counts for Kreia.

The only one to come close in knowledge is maybe Kreia, but he overwhelms her in power. Kun is leagues above all of them. And, like I said, Nihilus is an anomaly.

Revan and Kreia have shown very similar powers compared to Kun's so I pretty much doubt that he's leagues above them. And he's definately not leagues above Nadd. A living Nadd might most likely be able to overwhelm him with force powers or in lightsaber combat. And having a look at the fight and the teams that mean:

Exar = or > Revan
Kreia < or = or > Revan
Nadd > Kreia
Nadd = or > Exar

The only thing that I personally think is sure is that Exar alone wouldn't be able to take Nadd so the only possible scenario for Kreia and Exar winning is when Kreia defeats Revan and teams up with Exar to defeat Nadd. Kreia won't most likely be able to take Revan with force powers and she surely can't take him with a lightsaber. So for me the thing that will most likely happen is Revan defeating Kreia and therefore leaving Kun vs Nadd and Revan and I don't think that he can take that.

Oh. You "imagine" something and therefore it must be true ? Nice try.

Cute. Seize on a single word I chose and attempt to dismiss everything I wrote.

So you're trying to tell me that something which was explained in detail in the books never happened because it's not shown in the comics despite the fact that both things are coming from the same author and the comics were written later ? I don't see any logic in that.

Given that the TOTJ source is literally about the event in question while the JA source only references the event, the TOTJ source is more reliable.

I pretty much don't care if there were "hundreds" or "thousands" of Jedi Knights above Yavin 4. The point was that Exar needed the temples and a Sith Ritual to drain the lifeforce of the Massasi to remain "alive" as a spirit while Nadd did the very same thing without having the temples and without draining people's lifeforce.

If you didn't care, why did you try to belittle Exar's power by claiming it was hundreds? Two, you're completely off-base. Exar Kun was not dead or dying. He used the Sith ritual to release his spirit from his body and run throughout the cosmos. He did not need the temples to drain the Massassi, the Massassi killed themselves for him. All he needed was the focusing chamber to use the power of their sacrifices to release him. Nadd died to become a spirit. Exar released himself willingly without death.

And despite the fact that Exar used the power of the templen when he was a spirit, Nadd's spirit still seemed to be more impressive.

I could take a page from you and seize upon the word "seemed" and use it to completely dismiss everything you wrote, but I won't.

Your premise is ridiculous. Nadd was only dead for four hundred years and therefore had much of his power remaining. Not to mention that everywhere he operated was a focus of the Dark Side (Onderon, Yavin, Korriban). And you think that Nadd did not need these places and the dark side energies to do the things he could do as a spirit?

Nadd was the source for Dark Side knowledge on Onderon but how does that make Ommin a puppet of Nadd ? That's like saying that every Sith apprentice was only a puppet of his master.

Nadd's ultimate goal was to return to the physical world. Thus, it would be ridiculous for Nadd to teach his descendent everything he knows because if his descendent became powerful enough he could simply ignore Nadd. Nadd controlled Ommin from beyond the grave, plain and simple.

First: Exar and Ulic at the point of their duel were both very powerful beings. Vodo thought of Exar being one of the best or even the best students he had and Ulic was naturally gifted with the force and in lightsaber combat. If it takes that skill level (which would be on par or above people like Dooku or Mace Windu) to defeat Nadd's ionized air particles than Nadd's spirit must have been very powerful and Nadd himself would even have been more powerful.

Yes, and it was some months before Exar and Ulic's duel that he destroyed Freedon Nadd, when Exar was much weaker. From TOTJ: Dark Lords of the Sith

In the months (emphasis mine) since he abandoned Master Vodo (Vodo was able to beat Kun in a lightsaber duel then), Exar Kun has plunged deep into the galaxy's dark past.

This is just as Exar Kun discovered Naga Sadow's trove of knowledge, ship, and alchemical equipment. It is still quite a bit of time between that point and the point at which he duels Qel-Droma. Thus, it did not take an extraordinarily powerful being to defeat Nadd, only one with the will and Dark Side energy to do so.

What the hell have Sadow's ship an alchemical devices to do with knowledge ? Nadd was trained by the living Sadow at a time when Sadow might not even have created the monstrosity to guard his ship or achemical devices. And we know that by far not everything Nadd had from Korriban was stored in Nadd's tomb since we have many things on Onderon that were used by his descendants.

You're completely off-base again. What makes you think that Kun did not also find scrolls and other tomes in Sadow's trove detailing Sith magic? Read Dark Lords of the Sith again, because it's explicitly mentioned that he does.

(Kun, to Aleema Keto) Pretender? Nadd only taught you the beginnings of Sith power, woman-- But I have learned everything!

By the way, why wouldn't most of Nadd's artifacts and scrolls from Korriban be in his tomb when Arca constructed Nadd's new tomb on Dxun and had his remains, along with the King and Queen's, moved there along with scrolls and artifacts?

So basically Exar (just talking about knowledge) had just the things he learned from Nadd himself (which is most likely not everything Nadd himself knew) and things he stole from Ossus (the place where Nadd was trained first to become a Jedi Knight if I may remind you). And that should give him far more knowledge than Nadd had ? Very questionable...

Absolutely not. For one, he had all of the scrolls and devices that Sadow possessed at Yavin 4 (already more than Nadd could ever hope for or gain access to). Second, he had knowledge taken from Nadd's tomb and Korriban. Third, he had priceless artifacts and knowledge from Ossus, much of which was only available to the oldest masters of the Jedi Order. Nadd could never access what Exar stole, neither on Yavin nor on Ossus. Exar learned more than Nadd, plain and simple.

Obviously they had fought before and Vodo knew that he wasn't able to defeat Exar with it.

Alright then. So Vodo enters the Senate and confronts Exar Kun willingly knowing that he will die. This, I remind you, is after Vodo reflects on Dantooine about how a confrontation with Kun is his battle. Tell me how that makes sense.

Nadd thought he could never be more than an acolyte because he knew that their could only be a single Dark Lord at any time meaning if he wasn't able to defeat Sadow (and he most likely tried to do so) that would have given him the perfect reason to go to Onderon and install his own Sith Empire there because he knew that he couldn't be the Dark Lord as long as Sadow was alive on Yavin 4.

You're a little delusional here. Nadd knew he'd never be the Dark Lord, because Sadow wasn't even the Dark Lord and had not been for centuries. If you'll remember, Ludo Kressh usurped the throne after Sadow's ill-conceived attack against the Republic. Afterwards, Sadow was a wanted man both by the Sith remnants and the Republic. That is why he and his followers fled to Yavin 4. Sadow was not the Dark Lord when Nadd found him, thus your paragraph is moot.

Now you're the one making assumptions. Revan had an entire planet filled with knowledge by the ancient Sith Lords (Malachor V) and we know that he was gifted with some huge amount of potential. So he actually could be more powerful than Exar. Same counts for Kreia.

Hardly. You assume that since Revan had a border world in which he put Sith knowledge (filled with knowledge? Alright then, show me a screenshot of all this knowledge, because the only thing there was an academy that was recently constructed) and that he was gifted with large potential - for his time - that he could beat the declared Dark Lord of the Sith, who had far more knowledge both from Jedi and Sith than Revan could ever hope for? I'll reiterate: It took all of the Jedi in the galaxy to stop Exar Kun.

Revan and Kreia have shown very similar powers compared to Kun's so I pretty much doubt that he's leagues above them. And he's definately not leagues above Nadd. A living Nadd might most likely be able to overwhelm him with force powers or in lightsaber combat.

Show me where Revan and Kreia have displayed powers on the level of Exar Kun. Show me where they have practiced alchemy, have used Sith magic, or have been declared the Lord of the Sith. Indeed, show me where they have invented a unique style of lightsaber combat that they took to the grave which was able to overwhelm the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order in seconds. Nadd, as I've argued, is inferior to Kun. Not by far, but enough to ensure Kun's victory in most cases.