Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Read the Ultimate Guide to Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. It says that Darth Vader, due to the fact that he has mecahnical forearms, will never be able to summon or defend against Sith lightning.Simply because he can deflect blaster fire doesn't mean he can defend against the Force.
Glentract, I think Faunus hit it on the head this time. You're putting a lot of effort into trying to win every little battle. Don't let that debate class go to your head.
Electricity is a form of energy.
So is light. Look! I'm reflecting light with my skin! I must be Vader!
So, we've seen him absorb energy through his hands(Han shooting at him.).
Actually, it sparked and fizzled when hitting his hand. This could be a Force power or this could be the construction of his hands and gloves. Really, instead of speculating let's go with some empirical fact on this one. Check the novelision of ESB, somebody. Let's get a from-the-source verdict on what really happened in a dinning room on some backwater Tibanna gas port.
And we've seen him use the force through his hands(choking various people).
Uh, he HAS no hands. Those are artificial. The Force is everywhere, it's simply manipulated, not "used through one's hands". Don't make a blind assumption that the ARTIFICIAL HANDS of Vader used the Force to choke someone, thus Vader can absorb Sith lightning.
Seems more likely than not that he can absorb lightning.
Seems to me like if he could do that, he would have done it or been quoted as having the ability. He doesn't. Case closed.
Originally posted by Ianus
[B]Electricity is a form of energy.So is light. Look! I'm reflecting light with my skin! I must be Vader!
Actually, it sparked and fizzled when hitting his hand. This could be a Force power or this could be the construction of his hands and gloves. Really, instead of speculating let's go with some empirical fact on this one. Check the novelision of ESB, somebody. Let's get a from-the-source verdict on what really happened in a dinning room on some backwater Tibanna gas port.
Uh, he HAS no hands. Those are artificial. The Force is everywhere, it's simply manipulated, not "used through one's hands". Don't make a blind assumption that the ARTIFICIAL HANDS of Vader used the Force to choke someone, thus Vader can absorb Sith lightning.
Seems to me like if he could do that, he would have done it or been quoted as having the ability. He doesn't. Case closed. [/B]
It light concentrated to a high level though?
Yeah, we don't know.
So if the force is every, Vader not having hands should have nothing to do with him be able to or not being able to manipulate it. Also, since in the ep3 game Vader is shown as able to use lightning, he must have at one time been able to.
Was Naga Sadow ever quoted as being able to absorb lightning? Vader's head was being hit by lightning as he was carrying a guy over his head. It would be a little hard to block, don't you think?
It light concentrated to a high level though?
Obviously you don't get the point. Your statement alone doesn't hold weight.
Yeah, we don't know.
So instead of arguing unrelated points and pseudo-science to me and the KMC crew, wait until someone goes and gets the novel and finds out just what it says.
So if the force is every, Vader not having hands should have nothing to do with him be able to or not being able to manipulate it.
Que?
Also, since in the ep3 game Vader is shown as able to use lightning, he must have at one time been able to.
LMFAO!
Episode III game?
Stop talking before you make a fool of yourself, Glentract.
Was Naga Sadow ever quoted as being able to absorb lightning? Vader's head was being hit by lightning as he was carrying a guy over his head. It would be a little hard to block, don't you think?
Naga Sadow has depicted power well above anything Vader could ever imagine. He may very well not be able to do Sith lightning or absorb it, but we believe he probably can because he's the elite Sith priest of his time and pretty badass.
And yes, Vader got zapped indirectly while hoisting Sidious like a sack of potatoes.
Originally posted by Ianus
Obviously you don't get the point. Your statement alone doesn't hold weight.
It's not just my statement. The light bouncing off your hand obviously isn't burning through Storm Trooper armor.
Originally posted by Ianus
Que?
What?
Originally posted by Ianus
LMFAO!Episode III game?
Stop talking before you make a fool of yourself, Glentract.
KOTOR shows as much stuff like it as the ep3 game, yet you still think Malak can use force drain.
Originally posted by Ianus
Naga Sadow has depicted power well above anything Vader could ever imagine. He may very well not be able to do Sith lightning or absorb it, but we believe he probably can because he's the elite Sith priest of his time and pretty badass.And yes, Vader got zapped indirectly while hoisting Sidious like a sack of potatoes.
Pretty badass? Wow. That holds a lot of water. We know Vader can use the force through his artificial hands, we know Vader has stopped blaster bolts with his hands, and we know Vader used force lightning before he was put into a suit.
Point is, Vader wasn't in a position to block it. The guy is raining energy on his head, not his hands.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'm sorry, but the thought of Vader being vunerable to lightning is crap. Do you remember him blocking a blaster bolt with his hands? A blaster bolt is far denser package of energy than force lightning. He can block lightning, he can block lightning.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You do realize that electronics can be shielded from energy, don't you?
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Because Sidious was standing over him shocking him, yes. If he had been in an upright duel, he would have been able to block with his hands, which can block energy.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
As seen in the NJO, force lightning isn't force energy as it can hurt Vong who are immune to the force.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
His mechanical hands can, his head can't.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Anyway, Vader has shown the ability to block energy through his hands. He was being shocked in the head in ROTJ.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
So, we've seen him absorb energy through his hands(Han shooting at him.).
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And we've seen him use the force through his hands(choking various people).Seems more likely than not that he can absorb lightning.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I Also, since in the ep3 game Vader is shown as able to use lightning, he must have at one time been able to.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
We know Vader can use the force through his artificial hands,
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
we know Vader has stopped blaster bolts with his hands,
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
and we know Vader used force lightning before he was put into a suit.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Point is, Vader wasn't in a position to block it. The guy is raining energy on his head, not his hands.
[Edit to fix quotes]
Glentract, the ROTS game is mixing the story from the film which makes it un-canon. Also in that game, Anakin as new born Sith after Mace is dead can use force lightning. And if you use force lightning on Darth Vader (Mech) in that game you can see his full sceleton which also is wrong because he hasent got any arms or legs. Didn't Malak use force drain while draining those jedi on the starforge?
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Okay, first of all, he used an artificial limb to absorb the blaster bolt. Luke took a blaster bolt to his artificial hand in ROTJ, and all it did was melt the artificial skin, it did nothing to affect the operation of his hand. From ROTS, we saw that Vader's artificial limbs were pure mechanics, no artifical flesh covering them. The only damage sustained from Han's blaster would have been a hole in his glove (which could be seen sparking) Vader could not block Force Lightning, because it requires living hands to manipulate it, something he does not have.Vader's life support systems were not shielded from energy though, and this is clear, because once he was hit by the Force Lightning, you could hear the change in the sound of his breathing, it was not only completely different, but clearly malfunctioning. Why do you think Anakin struggled to speak to Luke? It was because he simply couldn't breathe properly. Just as people can have fatal asthma attacks, Anakin died of suffocation, brought on by the failure of his life support systems.
No. Even if he had been standing upright, he would not have been able to block the Force Lightning, because he had artificial hands. A person must have living hands to manipulate Force Lightning. Again, the energy that he blocked was a blaster bolt, which may or may not have damaged his hand. Chances are (from seeing Luke's hand hit) it would not have done any damage, other than burn his glove.
NJO is EU, so it's not cannon. Your point is irrelevant.
How many more times? Artificial hands [b]can not
manipulate Force Lighting in any way.No, Vader showed the ability to take a blaster hit to his artificial hands without them sustaining damage. Luke took a hit to his artificial hand, and the only damage was to the artificial skin. The only reason he cried out was because the artificial skin contained tactile sensors (shown when it was grafted on in ESB) so it would have transmitted sensations of damage. Vader's artificial limbs had no artificial skin, they would have much less tactile feedback than Luke's hand, so he would not have felt any pain from it. He only cried out when his hand was completely severed, and that may have been as much through shock and surprize than actual pain.
No, we saw him take a hit from a blaster, which would have caused no damage.
Actually, no. In Clone Wars, Anakin's artificial hand was destroyed, but he was still able to use the Force to choke people. The Jedi use 'Gestures of Influence' to focus their thoughts to what they are doing, but for things like choking, it is a redundant gesture. Vader would be just as capable of Force choking someone with his hands at his sides, or even folded. The physical gesture itself is simply theatrical, and not actually necessary. The Force is not being channelled through the hand, so the structure of the hand is not important. The hand and the gesture purely serve to focus the Jedi's thoughts on what they are doing.
However, this does not change the fact that a person can only summon or absorb Force Lightning with living hands. They cannot do so through will power alone (as Force choking can be)Again, the game is not considered canon, so your point is again irrelevent, but I will humor you. I have not played the game, but from what I have seen, Vader only uses Force Lightning through his natural left hand, not his artificial right one.
No, we know Vader can use the Force to choke people regardless of the structure of his hands. In Clone Wars, he crushed one of the Techno Union minions through sheer will power after his artificial hand had been destroyed. The fact he was pointing the stump of his arm at him was simply muscle memory associated with the Force Gesture of Influence, he would mentally have been visuallizing closing a fist that no longer existed.
Yes. He stopped a blaster bolt with his artificial hand because it would have sustained no damage or caused any pain. Luke stopped a blaster bolt with his artificial hand, and it still worked. He only felt pain because the artificial skin allowed for more sensory feedback. Vader's artificial hands had no artificial skin, he would not have had the same level of sensory feedback, so he would not have felt as much (if any) pain as Luke did from a blaster hit.
Again, ignoring the fact that the game is not canon, we know Vader used Force lightning with his natural hand, (which Obi-Wan then cut off) before being put into the suit.
That's the only correct thing you've said this entire time.
[Edit to fix quotes] [/B]
Damn. I like how this guy thinks.
Just a word of advice: While EU material may not be "the real deal" type canon in the grand scheme of things, here in the KMC Versus we consider it as a valid source since this is an EU subforum. So technically it's Eu level canon and valid to cite.
Except for things that are way off base, the game being one of them. The game was so inconsistant to cite anything other than the actual ROTS movie clips is begging for a kick in the face.