"And slaughtering an Animal is not? Humans are Mammals and most of the Animals used for fur or food happen to be Mammals. A Human cannot kill another Human, but they can kill a defenseless Animal that honestly never did anything to them?"
Yes, that's exactly it.
If you cannot wrap around your head the moral difference between killing an animal and killing a Human you have a serious mental defect. And it does not matter the tiniest, tiniest amount that they are mammals. That is entirely irrelevant. It is no more or less moral to kill, say, reptiles.
Personally, I reject the idea that animal exploitation is excusable on the grounds we treat them well before we kill them. Strikes me as very fuzzy logic. I think AC was saying a similar thing earlier- if we raise animals with the pure intent of slaughtering them to our needs, then any moral dimension has already gone out of the window; treating them nicely beforehand won't help.
It can only be excused at all on the grounds that animals are simply not consciously sentient in the way Humans are, and so killing them is not conceptually any different to, say, picking a flower. Which is in fact what I believe, and so therefore you can do whatever the heck you like with them.
There is a certain minimum standard when something gets associated with the right to life as Humans have it. Animals don't make the grade.
So fur, food... whatever you want.
Originally posted by Lana
I won't wear real fur. I don't like the idea of animals being killed just so people can have pretty looking coats.Faux fur looks and feels the same, is cheaper, doesn't need to be taken care of, won't smell if it gets wet....and nothing died to make it.
Originally posted by Sorgo
And slaughtering an Animal is not? Humans are Mammals and most of the Animals used for fur or food happen to be Mammals. A Human cannot kill another Human, but they can kill a defenseless Animal that honestly never did anything to them?Wowzers!
Killing another human is the definition of murder, killing an animal is not. It can be brutal, but it is not murder.
Originally posted by Sorgo
] I am sure they do. Which is why they arrange and set up the death of these Animals or kill them. [/QUOTEYes trappers kill animals for the pure joy of it. Every week they get together and have a party and make a piniata out of a dead racoon. Are you that foolish? Most trappers live in the outdoors and have a much closer relationship, and a greater respect for it than you. Do you know how much information we get from these people to preserve these animals and the habitats that they live in?
[QUOTE=5395396]Originally posted by Sorgo
Whoa! Funny, your definition of "Coherently" is the EXACT same words from Dictionary.com. EXACT same words. Damn, I can copy and paste as well!
Then perhaps you can use the proper words in their proper context too.
Originally posted by Sorgo
No. Killing an Animal in self defense is perfectly understandable. But trapping them for fur, hunting them and killing them for eating and/or for fur is WRONG! They do not deserve to die! None of them!
No one said they deserved to die. Deserving to die and being used as a resource are no the same thing. If you were at all rational, you would have figured that out on your own.
Originally posted by Sorgo
People DO believe this kind of stuff. I have seen this arrogance before when I have brought up the subject to some friends and these are some of their responses.
Then your friends are functioning idiots that possess less knowledge about the subject than you.
Originally posted by Sorgo And just because my friends choose to share an opinion with me that I disagree with doesn't make them "Crackheads". Don't make silly assumptions.
Funny you say that. Seems that your entire argument has been based on misconceptions, ignorance and assumptions.
Originally posted by Sorgo
I drive a Hybrid, I don't need paper (Use it occasionally) and I Recycle but I often throw things away, yes.Murdering Animals is a differential subject than these things.
I do quite the bit for my environment, thanks.
And what the hell do you do? Eat meat, Drive a Car, write things down, throw away leftover meat and waltz around in your coat?
Please. Considering I am a Vegetarian, Drive a Hybrid, recycle what I can and actually get off my f*cking ass to help...
..Well, it's doing more than what you're doing.
You see, before you make the comment that you are doing more than I, perhaps you should get a clue before you speak.
I make a living as an outdoor writer ( I write about other subjects also but the outdoors is my passion). By doing so I have been involved in a lot of environmental, species and habitat efforts and programs. To name a few:
I have assisted in restoring habitat in areas around southern Ontario to assist the declining population of Brook Trout. I have been involved with the tagging and information gathering for the re-establishment of elk herds across Canada and I have made a special effort in being involved with the preservation of some of Canada’s oldest stands of white pine forests in the Temagami area. With many of my articles I have brought attention to the industrial effects of natural habitat and the horrors of poaching. I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.
I appreciate your small contributions to the environment, but until you get your hands dirty and involved, do not pass judgement on aspects of nature that you obviously have no concept of and don’t go around thinking that you are and environmental warrior or hero.
Originally posted by Sorgo
I show them disrespect, yet I am not the one who agrees with their death or encourages it. Awkward? Indeed.
By anthropomorphising animals you disrespect them.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Animals still deserve to roam freely and do as they please instead of rotting in some small ass cage and getting slaughtered alive.... Or getting "peacefully" gassed as their lives are stripped from them.
With that I agree.
Originally posted by Sorgo
What the hell did they do to you to deserve for you to kill them? Did *YOU* just decide you wanted to eat some of them? Or wear their skin? You don't have that right, and when you wear them or eat them, you're contributing to their ruthless and undeserved death.
I am participating in nature’s design, co-existance, codependance and mutual respect.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Damn, I wish I could sit down and enjoy a burnt rotten piece of Animal muscle and still reach the ability to sleep at night.
I prefer medium to medium rare, it’s healthier and tastier.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Not at all. Yet Another "Silly" Assumption. Killing an Animal just isn't right, Licence or no.It is not right to kill an Animal under ANY circumstance except for self-defense.
That is your opinion, your woefully uniformed opinion.
Originally posted by Sorgo
NOT EVERY ANIMAL DIES IN THE WILD.
So you believe animals live forever?
Originally posted by Sorgo
Oh I see... So, since they die we get the right to come up and do it anyways, because they might die to another Animal? Oh I see....
No, apparently you don’t.
Originally posted by Sorgo
No one said they did. You're calling me Arrogant? I smell Hypocrisy. Killing an Animal in a torturous way is horrible, but killing an Animal period is disgusting. Nothing deserves to die and just because the Animal may die in the wild doesn't mean we get to kill it just because we assume it will be killed savagely by another animal. That's just absurd.
Your entire argument is absurd, childish, unrealistic and absurd.
Originally posted by Sorgo
And please: The Irrelevant Semantics you're using? Getting a bit too ridiculous now. Nobody rambled, except for you spitting Pseudo bullshit assumptions all over me like some rabid dog who's having a Seizure.
Hey, I take offence to that. Rabid dogs while having seizures never, I repeat never, spit pseudo bullshit assumptions. By the way , by saying pseudo bullshit, you are saying ‘fake bullshit’. So are you saying that what I am saying isn’t really bullshit at all? Then by that logic are you saying that what I am saying is true?
You offered no further logic (because I doubt that you can proscribe any) to your argument.
I obviously do not believe that animals should be horribly tortured or abused, but I have no problem with the ethical use of the earth’s natural resources. I do have a problem with people who have no real experience with the outdoors or an outdoor lifestyle that judges and criticises it based on their study from PETA information or from what they have heard from their friends.
I have tried to be rational with you, but you keep spewing crap and really not saying anything.
No one said they deserved to die. Deserving to die and being used as a resource are no the same thing. If you were at all rational, you would have figured that out on your own.
A Resource? There is alternatives to eating Meat to survive. I know that because I have never eaten a dead Animal in my life... Yet I am surprisingly still here.
Then your friends are functioning idiots that possess less knowledge about the subject than you.
Heh, trust me, I know they're Idiots. They say Animals should be killed because they are less superior than us and less intelligent.
Seems that your entire argument has been based on misconceptions, ignorance and assumptions.
^ No need to explain what you have been doing. I have a clear idea.
You see, before you make the comment that you are doing more than I, perhaps you should get a clue before you speak.
I make a living as an outdoor writer ( I write about other subjects also but the outdoors is my passion). By doing so I have been involved in a lot of environmental, species and habitat efforts and programs. To name a few:
I have assisted in restoring habitat in areas around southern Ontario to assist the declining population of Brook Trout. I have been involved with the tagging and information gathering for the re-establishment of elk herds across Canada and I have made a special effort in being involved with the preservation of some of Canada’s oldest stands of white pine forests in the Temagami area. With many of my articles I have brought attention to the industrial effects of natural habitat and the horrors of poaching. I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.
I appreciate your small contributions to the environment, but until you get your hands dirty and involved, do not pass judgement on aspects of nature that you obviously have no concept of and don’t go around thinking that you are and environmental warrior or hero.
No one said that I thought I was a "Hero."
I am not the one acting like I play an A Class Role in what you think is "Big Time Environmental Projects", yet you continue to eat rotting dead pieces of animal?
Nice indeed. You eat meat, you use paper, you throw things away....
I am participating in nature’s design, co-existance, codependance and mutual respect.
You're also participating in it's downfall. But hell, aren't we all?
I prefer medium to medium rare, it’s healthier and tastier.
Yet I am childish? Right on.
That is your opinion, your woefully uniformed opinion.
I am not the only one throwing opinions out around here.
So you believe animals live forever?
^ Now I wasn't expecting that kind of shit.
I don't believe I said anything NEAR that. I was trying to say that not all Animals get brutally killed and slaughtered by other animals.
Your entire argument is absurd, childish, unrealistic and absurd.
Erm....You said absurd...Uh....Twice....
Hey, I take offence to that. Rabid dogs while having seizures never, I repeat never, spit pseudo bullshit assumptions. By the way , by saying pseudo bullshit, you are saying ‘fake bullshit’. So are you saying that what I am saying isn’t really bullshit at all? Then by that logic are you saying that what I am saying is true?
Now you're assuming what I meant with "Bullshit" and what context that I took it into?
You offered no further logic (because I doubt that you can proscribe any) to your argument.
I obviously do not believe that animals should be horribly tortured or abused, but I have no problem with the ethical use of the earth’s natural resources. I do have a problem with people who have no real experience with the outdoors or an outdoor lifestyle that judges and criticises it based on their study from PETA information or from what they have heard from their friends.
I have tried to be rational with you, but you keep spewing crap and really not saying anything.
That was a very large Assumption and basically a turn for the worst for you in this argument.
I have no experience in the Outdoors? Why do you seem to partake to acting like the only one around here that does something with the Outdoors or helps Nature thrive? And now apparently I read information on PETA and listen to my friends which I have clearly stated I disagree with?
Seems as if you are distorting what I am saying and adding it as ammunition against me.
Nice!
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Sorgo, we are never going to agree on some issues, that much is obvious.I will only respond to you if you make a valid, intelligent point. I am willing to bet that that caveat all but ends our debate.
You haven't made any intelligent points yet I remained to reply to your opinion.
And yes, it is obvious that we most likely will not agree and if we continue, it could probably get a bit nasty and I don't need another enemy on KMC.
Anyways, what part of the Great White North you from?