Originally posted by Silverstein
whoever doesnt appreciate the REAL villains of Batman...I pity them. If they had no Villains like Joker and Ra's...Batman would be over in half an hour. Bats took out Falcone and his men in 15mins. Took out Falcone himself in 2seconds: simple head butt
The Joker, Ra's, Two-Face. They're great villains. That doesn't mean a story without them is going to be crap. Wake up.
Anyone who thinks a Batman movie without a villain,I mean a proper villain,would be a huge success then you're deluding yourselves.
Oh look a new Batman movie.Who's the villain??
Carmine Falcone.
Who???
He's a Gotham gangster.
Wait,you mean there's no Joker,or Penguin,or Two-Face or Scarecrow or anyone like that in it???
Nope.Batman just fights regular crooks and gangsters.
How BORING!!!!
I don't believe for one second that Batman Begins gained a huge financial benefit from having Ra's Al Ghul in the line-up. People that aren't Batman fans have never heard of him. People that are Batman fans would go to see Batman Begins no matter who was the villain because the movie is about Batman's beginnings and the challenges he faces: that is its appeal.
Even if I did believe it though, I don't need to make money on this because I'm not making a movie. Just honestly tell me how the film itself, not its profits, would suffer from the lack of a Halloween costumed or Bond-esque villain?
How is Falcone even less effective a villain than Ra's? He's Gotham city's answer to The Kingpin.
what's wrong with Lady Shiva? you don't want Batman to get out-staged by a woman huh? I read that she trained Bruce and he's never beat her without help..that could be a cool battle..student vs master. she could work in a movie...just as long as she's not alone..it's not like she's the Mad Hatter or anything.
Batman 1: Ra and Scarecrow (don't f**k with perfection)
Batman 2: Black Mask, Joker (main villians) Bane and Lady Shiva (seconday villians who want to collect on a reward for killing Batman sent out by Black mask) havery Dent and Selina Klye introduced. Pegiun minor kingpin villian (or not could work without without little bird man)
Batman 3: Catwoman and Two Face (main villians) Posion Ivy, Riddler, Joker (secondary villians) Tony Zucco (minor villian) introduction of young Dick Grayson. storyline based heavy on elements Long Hallooween and Dark Victory.
Originally posted by Doc Ock
How is Falcone a less effective villain?? Let's see.He's not immortal,he's not a high class fighter,he's not the leader of the society of shadows,he doesn't try and destroy cities.Falcone is a mobster.Nowhere near the scale Ra's is on.
Ra's is a joke compared to Falcone. He tries to destroy cities, sure... guess what: "Tries" is the operative word. He fails. Batman beats him every time. Batman has, at best, pyrrhic victories against The Roman.
Originally posted by NoFate007
Daredevil had Kingpin, Bullseye and Elektra, not just Kingpin.
-umm, Falcone lost a fight against Batman, infact it wasnt really a fight...he got head butt once and got knocked unconscious.
-His men were defeated in no time. guess what, Batman grabbed Falcone out of the limo...grab...physically.
-And Ra's league of shadows are more skilled and more effective than the law. They infiltrated every infrastructure with ease...the law cant do that.
-Besides Batman DOES fight the law everyday, its called being a vigilante.
Originally posted by Silverstein
-umm, Falcone lost a fight against Batman, infact it wasnt really a fight...he got head butt once and got knocked unconscious.
-His men were defeated in no time. guess what, Batman grabbed Falcone out of the limo...grab...physically.
-And Ra's league of shadows are more skilled and more effective than the law. They infiltrated every infrastructure with ease...the law cant do that.
-Besides Batman DOES fight the law everyday, its called being a vigilante.
The version of Falcone you saw in Batman Begins was radically altered into a bastardized version to suit the movie's needs. I'm fine with the movie retaking the Batman mythos on its own terms, but if they had chosen to play Falcone closer to his comic-book version, the movie would be radically different.
Firstly, Falcone would never have been at that buy in person. He would have been back in his luxurious upstate manor, kicking back with some brandy in a million-dollar study in a hundred-thousand dollar robe. Meanwhile Batman beats up the hoods and stops the buy, maybe exposes one corrupt cop, but at the end of the day Falcone would remain untouched. He'd buy off all the witnesses and judges he needed, so that no matter what the hoods testified, he wouldn't be convicted.
Secondly, even if Batman had simply busted in on Falcone and beaten him up, no jail would hold him. The comic book Falcone has the courts under his virtual control. Before Batman would know it, the full force of Gotham P.D would be brought to bear in a city-wide manhunt for his "psychotic assault" on "the respectable Mr. Falcone."
The Falcone you saw in Batman Begins is not the Carmine Falcone these posters have been talking about. They are different characters, written towards different purposes.
Originally posted by Piedmon
The Falcone you saw in Batman Begins is not the Carmine Falcone these posters have been talking about. They are different characters, written towards different purposes.
crap! well...this guy is untouchable. I still wouldnt like him as a villain. Nobody who is a real fan knows who he is. He'd be a great villain no doubt, but he has no soul. The Joker, Two-Face...Ra's they have souls. That's why they never had a Kingpin vs Spider-man movie.
A gangster from Gotham or an international immortal terrorist who destroys cities.
Hmmmm which one would provide more of a challenge to Batman??
Falcone was good.But he hasn't got ANYTHING over Ra's Al Ghul.Simple as that.
That's why Falcone was a side character who was defeated half way thru the movie.That's why Ra's was the main villain in Begins.That's why Ra's has been around in the Batman comics in the 70's.
Nuff said.
Originally posted by NoFate007
Vulture sucks dude. Falcone was cool in Batman Begins but not cool enough to withhold an entire new film by himself.
You know nothing about the Vulture. Learn to speak only when you have the knowledge to justify it.
It is true, Falcone should never be the primary villain in a Batman movie. While organized crime is an enormous part of what the Batman faces on a nightly basis, it's simply not a worthy Batman movie unless you have a psychotic rogue villain or at the very least a criminal who is eccentric enough to use a gimmick like the Penguin. That's what the Batman universe is all about. Period.
If I re-wrote 'Batman Begins,' the main villains would be Falcone (the primary crime boss), the Penguin (a rising star in the world of organized crime, not working for Falcone, who essentially defeats the Batman when the relatively inexperienced vigilante returns to Gotham and visits all the primary players in Gotham's underworld and tries to intimidate him into simply giving up his trade), and the Scarecrow, who would have a much bigger part and would be his own master in the main villain plot. Dr. Crane's origin would be more filled in and he'd become so whacky by the end of this film he would be in full costume, with the long, blond hair look from the animated series. Think Tom Petty in the video for 'Mary Jane's Last Dance.' Creepy, creepy stuff. The Scarecrow would attempt to poison all of Gotham City with fear gas just to be a bastard, but also asking for money (even though he'd do it anyway, just to be a bastard).
R'as Al Ghul would not appear, or at the very least he will not meet Bruce Wayne face to face. He may get a cameo watching Bruce train with some other master during his youth. Brief training sequences would include the use of boomerangs, shuriken, and crime scene investigation equipment. As the Batman (he would be in costume for at the very least twice as much as he was in 'Batman Begins'😉, he would use smoke bombs and do more actual detective work.
In his first fight with the Penguin in the Penguin's office, the Cobblepot would surprise him with his umbrella weapons (because who sees that coming when intimidating a short, well-dressed man?) and then release dozens of vicious, trained birds from their cages to attack the Batman. From this incident, the Batman is inspired to aquire the high-frequency transmitter that summons thousands of bats to attack the police in a later scene, like in 'Year One.'
Harvey Dent would be the D.A. starting in the first movie and Rachel Dawes' name (or anyone like her) would never even stain an early draft of the screenplay. No love interests. Just an overview of Bruce Wayne's habit of taking hot women out and leaving them hanging at the last minute instead of taking them to bed.
The fact that I and many other people don't like a character, does not mean that I know nothing about it. If you want to take your own line into reference, learn to speak about me only when you have the knowledge to justify it - you have no idea what I know, so don't assume because I disagree with you, that I'm an idiot. End of conversation.
Many of us agree that using one of the primary villains is the way to go, and that's gonna stay our opinion, right Ock? You're entitled to your own but don't start saying I'm an idiot because I disagree with you pal.