Symbiote Picture Thread

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You tell me. You're the one who attacked me over not liking this lame teaser poster.

I expressed my dislike for it. And you came along and insulted and flamed like the troll you are.

Oh stop being so melodramatic. I came and questioned your reasons for disliking it, not you actually disliking it. I didn't flame you or attack you by any definition of the terms. I attacked your logic.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Dafoe looks great there. Very similar to Osborn save for the washboard hair cut. Ditto for Molina. Physically perfect for Ock.

Clearly an Ock fanboy.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And I don't know what comics you've been reading, but Ock was ALWAYS chubby in the comics. And what's all this BS about being english?? Did Molina have an english accent in the movie?? No.

He had a very English tang when pronouncing many words.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And using a comic book pic of Brock btw. Show just how laughable Topher is in the role.

Physically, I've agreed that he's not up to scratch, but if he actually nails the part brilliantly, what does it matter?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Molina is Ock physically down to a tee. No bias involved. Ask any fan here if Ock is chubby in the comics. They'll all tell you he is.

No bias involved Doc Ock? With your Doc Ock avatar, sig and location? I bet there's no bias.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Pffffftttt some Spidey fan you are. You don't even know the basics.

I've been reading Spidey comics since I was 8 years old. You once said "You don't know jack shit about me", so afford others the same luxury, hypocrite.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Wtf are you on about?? Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shoveling. Ock was NOT english in the movie. He didn't have an english accent, he didn't say he was from england.

Molina had clear trouble speaking in American accents, listen to the conversation with Rosie.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
What are you on about?? Please tell me you're not using the fact that Molina is british by birth as an excuse. It doesn't matter if the actor is from the ass end of space as long as they look the part and act it well.

What's more important in a movie? Looking the part or acting well? Don't say "Both are important", because I'm aware. I'm saying if you were a director, what would be MORE important to you?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Good enough for you. Not me. Your standards are not universal for all.

Neither are yours, yet anyone who fails to adhere to them is branded a fanboy and someone who sucks up anything they're fed.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Ah you want to split hairs. Ok, I can play this game.

I know you can, you had a fit over the thread title, you claim Topher isn't Venom without his head covered.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yes, Venom is not Venom unless he's in full symbiote. Spider-Man unmasked is not Spider-Man. Because Spider-Man has a secret identity. The mask embodies that. Take it off and we see Peter Parker. Not Spider-Man. When he puts on the mask, he's Spider-Man.

Exactly, we take the mask of and see Peter Parker who is Spider-Man. So Peter Parker is not Spider-Man? His identity is secret, not entirely different identity. Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Eddie Brock is Venom, Clark Kent is Superman. You're being ridiculous.

Stan Lee says Peter Parker is Spider-Man, he says Banner is The Hulk, he says Victor Von Doom is Dr. Doom. Why are you being so outlandishly stupid as to say that if they are not fully dressed, they are not the superhero?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Not as much as you thankfully.

You're just retorting for the sake of it there, because the above post proves that you are the most anal poster on this board.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No Spidey mask = no Spider-Man. When we see Spider-Man we see Spidey fully costumed.

So Peter Parker using his powers without the suit isn't Spider-Man? It's Parker with Spidey powers? Hahaha, I hope everyone is reading this.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No full body symbiote = no Venom.

The symbiote can bond with Eddie Brock without covering his face, and when it's bonded he refers to them/himself as Venom. So...Eddie Brock, the writers of Marvel and his creators are...all wrong?

If Stan Lee came into this thread, you'd seriously say: "Stan, I know you created him, but Spidey without the mask isn't Spidey."?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah, you certainly seem like you don't care 😉

That's handy, because I don't.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Nope, because that's not how it works.

If you seriously believe there is no actor they could find who was physically suitable then you're more stupid than I dared to believe.

Everytime you refer to stupidity I'm going to quote you saying "No Spidey mask, no Spider-Man.". Deal? Sweet.

I never said they couldn't find an actor more physically suitable, I said they obviously didn't have the time to find an actor more physically suitable with suitable acting ability.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh but we have. We had the perfect actors as Doc Ock, GG and Sandman.

Conversely, you don't know that there wasn't anyone out there who could have done the job better. You're just pleased with who they chose, so they obviously choose their actors well, do they not?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Just not for Venom 🙂

Seen the film?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah, you're right. There's not one actor out there who's a tall, and a well built guy who can act.

I don't remember saying that.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Thank you Captain Obvious, but I knew that when Grace was conformed as Brock.

Wait...I was joking. You mean you actually want Venom from the comics to somehow appear in a film? Are you mental?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh it is.

It's not, fact. I'm saying it, the statement is regarding me, I'm me. What I say about me is fact. You have no say.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Translation: I don't care as long as I get Venom on screen.

That's not a translation, that's you saying something. I don't care if Venom is in the movie or not. I'd have been happy with Rhino.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Expecting a physically suitable actor to be cast is not unrealistic. Something you'll never comprehend sadly.

Why are you twisting my words? You said you wanted Venom from the comics, THAT is unrealistic, he doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
The fact they hired Topher is ample proof they never intended to cast an actor similar to the comic character.

So don't give me a load of BS about casting agents spending hours interviewing actors.

Raimi cast Molina after seeing him in Frida. He cast Church after seeing him in Sideways. They hadn't auditioned anyone else for the roles. Just considered a few others.

What's to say he didn't immediately see Topher and have a brainstorm? You? Oh, yeah.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
If the drummer can play the instrument, that's all that matters.

No it's not, because bands have to tour together, spend years, months and days in each other's faces. If they don't get on, it won't be anywhere near as good, or as longevity-laced as it would be with someone they like, someone who fits. The same applies to acting.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And the voice, and the height.

If you are seriously going to sit in a movie theatre picking at how tall Venom is, I suggest getting a life, man. Seriously, and you call others sad fanboys? For shame, Doc.

As for the voice, what voice? Who said what Venom sounded like? It's a comic book adaptation. Unless you're judging by the cartoons, a cardinal sin for any comic fan.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yes he does. Name me one similarity they have apart from blonde hair.

I don't know yet, I've not seen him act as Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Too bad Brock and Parker were never twin opposites.

Too bad Spider-Man never had organic webbing either. Oh...wait...didn't matter did it?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Since Alfred Molina has over 20 years of movie and theatre work, and a long history of playing bad guys, and proved many times over he has the acting chops to play the bad guy, there was little if no doubt he could play Ock.

That's a fair claim, I can respect that.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No Dr Freud, that's your own stupid analogy of it.

I know perfectly well Raimi couldn't give two craps what I, or any of the fans think.

Judging by your inability to come up with anything besides Dr. Freud (who has nothing to do with telepathy, by the way), it seems you've got a lack of imagination. This might be the problem.

-AC

Originally posted by Doc Ock
The Venom fanboys here have behaved like a bunch of flaming trolls. Secondly, Dafoe is an actor who is right for the Goblin in every way. Acting, appearance, the lot.

Topher Grace is not that suitable for Venom physically.

This is nothing but pure opinion. I know that hurts to know, but it's the way it is. It's an argument over preference and as much as I dislike any kind of fanboy (I do agree with you there), their preference is not more disprovable than anyone else's.

-AC

Originally posted by Doc Ock
So what if more have agreed than disagreed?? You think that makes you right because a couple of other sensitive fan boys flew off the handle like you did??[/b]

Shh, stop making assumptions. I didn't fly off the handle, I'm telling you that I don't care if you like Venom or not. I honestly don't. If he's shit in the film, I will say he's shit in the film along with you. I'm curious as to your warped ideas.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You can be as flexible as you like. Like I said, your standards are lower. I don't take any old crap fed to me and smile and say it's great.

This is the problem. You assume that if you like something, it's personal choice, but if someone likes something you DISLIKE, it's because it's being fed to them.

I don't know if I'll like or dislike Venom, I've not seen the movie. I'm not sitting here saying he's a suitable Venom PHYSICALLY, because he's not. To me, acting is much more important, and he's not so bad as Vinnie Jones/Juggernaut casting, so if he turns in a great performance, I'll overlook that he isn't an unrealistic mountain of muscle.

It's a fact I don't have low standards. We're discussing me and my standards, therefore, what I say about myself is fact.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah, and the moon is made out of cheese 😉

I keep explaining to you in detail and in a civil manner, why I'm discussing this with you. If you can't grasp it nor accept it, then fine, but stop all the bs. I've told you why I'm discussing it, you'll either accept it or not.

I've told you I don't care what you think about Venom and my posts prove it. I'm not saying you're an idiot for disliking it, I'm saying I think your REASONS for disliking it are stupid. If they were realistic reasons like, after the movie he was shit and you dissed him, fine.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Well, any comic book fan who thinks the appearance is not important, well they, like yourself, have low standards.

I didn't say it wasn't important, I said that acting is just MORE important. Which it is, in a movie.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Why do you think many hated GG's costume?? Because it looked crap. Never mind the great performance Dafoe gave, the costume made him come off as really lame in some scenes. It was hard to see him as threatening.

Because Willem Dafoe has the villainous look, and the mask covered it, but that's the risk directors take. They couldn't cast Green Goblin without a mask, people would moan. The old costume would have looked silly, people would moan. The new costume was modern, but people moaned. You can't please everybody, so you have to just do what you want to do with the movie. Sam Raimi has, and he's put out two really good movies with a couple of flaws.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah, you keep saying that. Are you trying to convince me or yourself?? 😉

You, because you keep ignoring it, and I'm trying to civilly explain it to you.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I haven't seen enough of movie Venom to hate him. But his human counterpart Brock is certainly not impressive.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
But you're pushing this beyond discussion. You're stripping everything down to it's bare bones and analyzing it.

So? That's still discussion. It proves my point. I'm not rushing in here assuming your reasons, I'm asking you in depth about each thing you say, so I can understand it better. The more specific I get, the more nonsense I hear. I'm telling you straight up, adult to adult, I'm only interested in discussing, that's all it is to me. Now you can either be a mature adult and accept that, or you won't.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And accomplished nothing other than showing the fact that it obviously bothers you that I dislike this teaser poster, and the fact they've hired an actor completely physically unsuitable for Brock.

It doesn't bother me, you don't like it, fine. You're entitled to that, I've said it many times and you just ignore me because you want to avoid the fact that I am being on point with you.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Where??

You use condescending winking smileys (A sin in debates), downplaying people's opinions on something unless they have an official source (which you did for months, only to end up wrong).

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Nothing wrong with my debating methods. I don't come into a thread, guns blazing and firing insults over someone's difference of opinion.

I called you an idiot over saying it's not Venom, because it factually is Venom. It's nonsense to say it's not, and your reasons for saying it's not are silly. Even forgetting the teaser poster, forget the movie. You claim that unless they are in full costume, they are not their respective characters. That's an idiotic claim.

You're not an idiot for disliking the poster, that would be stupid.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
When even the simplest mind should have known that he would not be CGI all the time.

I meant in motion whilst doing Spidey-esque things.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Of course I care if he acts like Brock. But we might as well have Danny DeVito play the role as the physical similarity is just as different.

Let's not get too silly. Danny DeVito isn't as bad as Topher Grace, let's not get stupid.

That's one of the worst fanboy comments I've seen. Bakerboy comes up with better shit than that. Well...maybe not, but pretty close.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Thanks again Captain Obvious.

I don't look like Captain Obvious, I play the role well enough though.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I'll whip out the scanner later and put the egg right on your face with that remark.

He's not Juggernaut big. Not even close.

You think Ock is muscular, and Brock is as big as Juggernaut LMAO! 😆

What? Where are you getting this BS? I never said Brock was as big as Juggernaut in the comics. I said he's about as big as Vinnie Jones Juggernaut, and there are bodybuilders bigger than that. Of course he's not comic Juggernaut size.

Read my posts.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Octavius is a chubby middle aged man. Spidey is a slightly buff young man.

And Brock is a slightly unrealistically proportioned human, artist depending.

-AC

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And by definition I think you're acting like a stupid moron.

So cest la vie.

By definition then, how does one have a stupid face? I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And as I said before, and someone else has said with a thread about this same pic, it is Brock TRANSFORMING into Venom.

Yeah, Eddie Brock is Venom. Peter Parker wasn't Venom when he had the symbiote was he? No. The symbiote wasn't called Venom until Brock got it.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Not the same thing and you know it.

Inability to counter, nice one.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Fighting fire with fire buddy.

I called you an idiot vis-a-vis your post, you said "Shut your stupid face" and then called me a "Moron". Moron could be considered fire/fire, "Stupid face"? Not so much.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I'm not going to take your insulting BS lying down.

Then have consistency to not call it a no bashing forum. You're the only one who's thrown a direct personal insult.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Let's see, you and the others went into a rant filled with insults and swear words.

So anyone who swears is therefore very pissed? Bit of odd logic there. You're the one ignoring me carefully explaining to you why we're discussing, in favour of keeping a certain reply to use. Rather than saying "Ok, I get what you mean.".

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I don't have to make you look bad. You do that all by yourself.

I don't, you look bad.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I am a Fan boy. And proud of it. What sets me apart from you and the rest of the trolls who went nuts in here is that I don't go crazy over someone else's differeing opinion .

This is why you're a walking contradiction. You diss fanboys, yet you are one, proudly.

If anyone was actually saying you were wrong for not liking things, I will actually say THEY are wrong to say that, because that's stupid. I'm not saying you are wrong for disliking it, I'm questioning and exposing your EXPLANATIONS for disliking it. Whether you dislike it forever is no concern to me.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Why do you keep mentioning Sony?? Sony showed Venom at comic con.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No, it's not Venom.

It is the character Venom, yes. Technically, legally, originally.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh but you do care. It bothered you that much that you resorted to insults. If you didn't care, you wouldn't have been so nasty.

I haven't been nasty to you...why are you being so melodramatic? By that logic, you care too. I'm sure you don't, I hope you don't.

How many more times am I going to have to civilly explain it to you before you're man enough to just stop going "Lalalalala"?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh you admit you're wrong now about that??

As you were wrong for assuming it about me.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Exactly.

Just like your basis for attacking me, and all the baseless assumptions you've made about me.

You don't get the joke do you? Tsk, sorry. I'll have to lower the humour level a bit.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Seeing as we're seeing Brock for 90% of the movie, it's kinda hard not to focus on that negative.

I'll notice it, and yes, it may very well subtract from his ability to intimidate, which may very well be a minus to the performance. Then again, it may not.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Venom doesn't show up until the end of the movie for the final fight. I am happy they got Venom's look right. But they screwed up Brock.

If by screwed up you mean "Didn't hire the guy from the actual comic" then yes, it's hard to employ fictional characters.

Topher may still turn in a good role.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yes you did. You claimed I hate these movies, I always nit pick at them because they don't live up to my impossible standards etc etc.

I claimed you always nit pick at them, yes. I know you don't hate them.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I had to get the link to that Sam Raimi bashing thread to show you otherwise.

Trust me, as bad as I think you are, I have encountered worse.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Don't try and soft soap me. You called me an idiot TWICE!!!

Yeah, and you said I have a stupid face and called me a moron. We're even.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And you deserved the retaliation comment you got. As I said, I don't take crap like that from anyone.

Tough guy throwing PERSONAL, ad hominem attacks on the net. I attacked your idiotic debate, I didn't attack you. Why would I?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Not hard to grip. They cast the physically wrong actor. Nothing hard to grip there. It's pretty cut and dry.

Wrong, to you. Not physically alike, to me.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No, it's not Venom. It's Brock beginning a transformation into Venom.

Nah, it's Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
HA! You should practice what you preach.

So should you, we're alike. Maybe we should be Brock and Parker, eh?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
He's thinking he's suitable for HIS version of Brock, whatever that may be.

Right, and what other versions are there? All the other different versions created by different artists and writers. Sam Raimi is just doing it in movie form.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And whatever it is, he doesn't look like the Brock we all know and love.

See, you love him, I don't. I just think he's cool. I loved the interaction between him and Parker more than I did his physique.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yes, but that doesn't make it right or fair. If he's going to use a fan favorite character, he should try and be as true as he can to the character. Physically and otherwise.

Do you not think that he did that? Oh yeah, you refuse to believe that he couldn't find anyone else suitable.

You refuse to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Goody.

In future, be a little nicer when you confront someone who's opinion you dislike/disagree with.

Makes life alot nicer and easier.

Practice what you preach, I'm just giving doses of the medicine you prescribe, Doc.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh stop being so melodramatic. I came and questioned your reasons for disliking it, not you actually disliking it. I didn't flame you or attack you by any definition of the terms. I attacked your logic.

You called me names. Stop trying to justify your behaviour with this "I attacked your logic" crap.

You insulted me. End of story.

Clearly an Ock fanboy.

Easy for you to delude yourself into believing I know.

He had a very English tang when pronouncing many words.

Funny, nobody else noticed that. Maybe because it isn't true 😉

Physically, I've agreed that he's not up to scratch, but if he actually nails the part brilliantly, what does it matter?

It matters because physicality and acting are important.

No bias involved Doc Ock? With your Doc Ock avatar, sig and location? I bet there's no bias.

Oh I see. People can't be unbiased about their favorite characters. Like Doc Ock being manipulated by his own tentacles, or being married, or turning good at the end. All flaws about the character in the movie I've criticized before.

Yeah, I'm really biased.

I've been reading Spidey comics since I was 8 years old.

You need to read them again.

You once said "You don't know jack shit about me", so afford others the same luxury, hypocrite.

No I won't, because someone who thinks Ock is muscular in the comics doesn't know wtf they're on about.

Hypocrite.

Molina had clear trouble speaking in American accents, listen to the conversation with Rosie.

Again. you seem to be the only one who noticed this.

I'm saying if you were a director, what would be MORE important to you?

Both.

Neither are yours, yet anyone who fails to adhere to them is branded a fanboy and someone who sucks up anything they're fed.

Anyone who claims to be a fan of Venom, and doesn't mind his character looking totally different from the norm can hardly be called a Venom fan.

I know you can, you had a fit over the thread title

A fit??

That's rich coming from you. Where did I have a fit??? I merely pointed out the misleading name of this thread.

you claim Topher isn't Venom without his head covered.

He isn't.

Exactly, we take the mask of and see Peter Parker who is Spider-Man. So Peter Parker is not Spider-Man? His identity is secret, not entirely different identity. Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Eddie Brock is Venom, Clark Kent is Superman. You're being ridiculous.

No, you're being ridiculous.

Peter Parker is Spider-Man when he puts on the costume. Bruce Wayne is Batman when he puts on his.

Anyone remember Bill's speech about super heros in Kill Bill 2?? Wise words indeed. These guys don't become their character until they don the costume. Mask and all.

Stan Lee says Peter Parker is Spider-Man, he says Banner is The Hulk, he says Victor Von Doom is Dr. Doom. Why are you being so outlandishly stupid as to say that if they are not fully dressed, they are not the superhero?

Because they are those superheros when they put on their costumes. Have Peter walking around maskless, and he's hardly Spider-Man. Same as when Brock is not fully covered by the costume, he is not Venom.

You're just retorting for the sake of it there, because the above post proves that you are the most anal poster on this board.

The only thing it proves is that you like to make up baseless BS about people to make your weak arguements seem better.

So Peter Parker using his powers without the suit isn't Spider-Man? It's Parker with Spidey powers?

That's right.

When someone says describe Spider-Man's appearance, what do they say?? Or if someone says draw Spider-Man what do they draw??

That's right. Spidey fully costumed.

Hahaha, I hope everyone is reading this.

So do I 😉

The symbiote can bond with Eddie Brock without covering his face, and when it's bonded he refers to them/himself as Venom. So...Eddie Brock, the writers of Marvel and his creators are...all wrong?

Splitting hairs again.

I'll use the same analogy I used above. Venomis Eddie Brock fully covered by the symbiote. That is what Venom looks like. That is the Venom persona image.

If Stan Lee came into this thread, you'd seriously say: "Stan, I know you created him, but Spidey without the mask isn't Spidey."?

I imagine he'd say, "No, it's Peter Parker unmasked"

That's handy, because I don't.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure one day you'll convince yourself that's true 😉

Everytime you refer to stupidity I'm going to quote you saying "No Spidey mask, no Spider-Man.". Deal? Sweet.

Yeah you do that. Always handy to have extra BS of yours to rip apart.

I never said they couldn't find an actor more physically suitable, I said they obviously didn't have the time to find an actor more physically suitable with suitable acting ability.

They OBVIOUSLY didn't?? They started casting in early 2005. The movie started filming in 2006.

They had plenty of time.

Conversely, you don't know that there wasn't anyone out there who could have done the job better. You're just pleased with who they chose, so they obviously choose their actors well, do they not?

They did, up to this point.

Seen the film?

Nope, but I've seen the actor.

I don't remember saying that.

Yeah, just like you don't remember insulting me.

Selective memory is a nice thing.

Wait...I was joking. You mean you actually want Venom from the comics to somehow appear in a film? Are you mental?

Wtf are you on about?? I want Venom to look as much like his comic counterpart as possible.

How is that mental?? What do you want him to look like?? Tight shiny balck spandex with false pointy teeth in his mouth??

It's not, fact. I'm saying it, the statement is regarding me, I'm me. What I say about me is fact. You have no say.

And you have nothing say about me. Yet you babble on anyway with you psycho analysis of me.

Hypocrite.

Why are you twisting my words?

Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

You said you wanted Venom from the comics, THAT is unrealistic, he doesn't exist.

Oh my god 🙄

Are you really as dumb as you sound?? Did you really interpret that as me saying I want a real live venom in the movie??

What's to say he didn't immediately see Topher and have a brainstorm? You? Oh, yeah.

If he did, his brain must of been on the fritz that day.

Nothing screams Eddie brock like Topher Grace...............NOT!!

No it's not, because bands have to tour together, spend years, months and days in each other's faces. If they don't get on, it won't be anywhere near as good, or as longevity-laced as it would be with someone they like, someone who fits. The same applies to acting.

It has ZERO to do with acting. The actor has to charm the audience with his performance, and be able to physically look like a character they're supposed to be playing.

Grace, so far, fails on half of that.

If you are seriously going to sit in a movie theatre picking at how tall Venom is, I suggest getting a life, man. Seriously, and you call others sad fanboys? For shame, Doc.

You are a sad fan boy.

I was merely pointing out it's not the only difference. Brock is tall. Grace is not.

As for the voice, what voice? Who said what Venom sounded like? It's a comic book adaptation. Unless you're judging by the cartoons, a cardinal sin for any comic fan.

Seeing as Venom's speech balloons and voice was described as a monstrous voice in the comics, as well as being adapted that way in not just the cartoons, but video games too, then one would expect a symbiotic monster to have a nasty, gruff, voice.

Something Grace doesn't have. But I imagine Venom's voice will be artificially done, or dubbed by someone else.

I don't know yet, I've not seen him act as Venom.

Unless he supplies the voice, all you'll most likely see is a CGI character. Like Gollum.

Too bad Spider-Man never had organic webbing either. Oh...wait...didn't matter did it?

Yeah organic webbing is the same basis for comparison 🙄

Judging by your inability to come up with anything besides Dr. Freud (who has nothing to do with telepathy, by the way), it seems you've got a lack of imagination. This might be the problem.

My imagination is just fine.

I just don't let it sink to the levels of anything Hollywood shoves in front of me is good.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You called me names. Stop trying to justify your behaviour with this "I attacked your logic" crap.

You insulted me. End of story.

No, I called you an idiot regarding your debate. I didn't intend to insult you, but I can't help if you were insulted.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Easy for you to delude yourself into believing I know.

You admitted it...who's deluded?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Funny, nobody else noticed that. Maybe because it isn't true 😉

He had an English tang, I'm English, I can tell when I hear it.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
It matters because physicality and acting are important.

Exactly. Which is more important?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh I see. People can't be unbiased about their favorite characters. Like Doc Ock being manipulated by his own tentacles, or being married, or turning good at the end. All flaws about the character in the movie I've criticized before.

Yeah, I'm really biased.

You admitted you were a fanboy, so I regard you as a fanboy, though I commend and appreciate that you aren't totally biased. Fair point.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You need to read them again.

I don't, actually. That's just you desperate for another line to retort to.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No I won't, because someone who thinks Ock is muscular in the comics doesn't know wtf they're on about.

Some artists have drawn him as clearly having muscle definition.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Hypocrite.

You are.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Again. you seem to be the only one who noticed this.

I'm unique.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Both.

No, you didn't read it. I said, what would be MORE important to you? Both can't be more important.

If you were a director, making a movie, what would be more important to you?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Anyone who claims to be a fan of Venom, and doesn't mind his character looking totally different from the norm can hardly be called a Venom fan.

His character? This is where you fail. None of us own a part of him, we read the comics because THEY allow us to by creating these characters. It's their property, they can do with them as they wish, I don't have to like it, and I may not, but it's up to them.

Fantastic Four are my favourite comic, or one of. I will contend that I gave it the worst bashing of any movie.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
A fit??

That's rich coming from you. Where did I have a fit??? I merely pointed out the misleading name of this thread.

It's called an exaggeration, son. I recognise you weren't actually having a fit, stop taking things literally, you're too literal.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
He isn't.

He is.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No, you're being ridiculous.

Peter Parker is Spider-Man when he puts on the costume. Bruce Wayne is Batman when he puts on his.

Anyone remember Bill's speech about super heros in Kill Bill 2?? Wise words indeed. These guys don't become their character until they don the costume. Mask and all.

They create their suits, their alter-egos. They are one and the same entity, life, person. Their creator thinks of them as such.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Because they are those superheros when they put on their costumes. Have Peter walking around maskless, and he's hardly Spider-Man. Same as when Brock is not fully covered by the costume, he is not Venom.

Utterly ludicrous. I suppose next you'll say "Captain America isn't Captain America is he has his hood down.".

What makes him Spider-Man? Powers. He doesn't gain them when he puts the suit on.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
The only thing it proves is that you like to make up baseless BS about people to make your waek arguements seem better.

See above. Powers make the hero, clothes maketh not the man.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
That's right.

When someone says describe Spider-Man, what do they say?? Or if someone says draw Spider-Man what do they draw??

That's right. Spidey fully costumed.

So I could put on the costume and be Spider-Man?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Splitting hair again.

I'll use the same analogy I used above. Venomis Eddie Brock fully covered by the symbiote. That is what Venom looks like. That is the Venom persona image.

If anything, that carries more weight, since Eddie Brock is nothing but a human without the suit, he doesn't have inherent powers. Though it's still a ridiculous claim. He's Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I imagine he'd say, "No, it's Peter Parker unmasked"

Aha, gotcha. So...for him to be Peter Parker unmasked, there would have to be a Peter Parker masked...right? Because, UNmasked implies an opposite. So that would mean Peter Parker is Spider-Man no matter what.

Why am I arguing with you over if Peter Parker is Spider-Man or not?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure one day you'll convince yourself that's true 😉

Sad, truly sad that you can't show some maturity and move on.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah you do that. Always handy to have extra BS of yours to rip apart.

Did you flex muscles while you said that? You couldn't rip me apart if you actually were Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
They OBVIOUSLY didn't?? They started casting in early 2005. The movie started filming in 2006.

They had plenty of time.

How many movies have you worked on? Or can I ask how long you've studied the movie industry, worked in it?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
They did, up to this point.

You're speaking only from a visual standpoint, and I know you know that.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Nope, but I've seen the actor.

Yeah, what he looks like.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah, just like you don't remember insulting me.

I remember everything I've said. I didn't set out to insult you, you're just easily insulted. You called me a moron, it means nothing, it's a word. Idiot obviously offends you.

Me intending to insult you and you coincidentally being insulted by something I've said are two different things.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Selective memory is a nice thing.

I wouldn't know.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Wtf are you on about?? I want Venom to look as much like his comic counterpart as possible.

He might. From what I hear, he does.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
How is that mental?? What do you want him to look like?? Tight shiny balck spandex with false pointy teeth in his mouth??

I want him to look like Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
And you have no say about me. Yet you babble on anyway with you psycho analysis of me.

Yeah, but that's me saying what you SEEM like, not me telling you what you ARE. I've got all bases covered here, Ock.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
If he did, his brain must of been on the fritz that day.

And you have a grand total of how many critically and fan-orientated acclaimed comic book to movie adaptations to your name?

1? 2? None?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
It has ZERO to do with acting. The actor has to charm the audience with his performance, and be able to physically look like a character they're supposed to be playing.

It has zero to do with acting...? Possibly THE silliest comment ever. We're discussing a movie, but it has zero to do with acting.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You are a sad fan boy.

I was merely pointing out it's not the only difference. Brock is tall. Grace is not.

Eddie Brock is 6ft 3 inches. Topher Grace if 5ft 11 inches. There's a couple of inches difference.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Seeing as Venom's speech balloons and voice was described as a monstrous voice in the comics, as well as being adapted that way in not just the cartoons, but video games too, then one would expect a symbiotic monster to have a nasty, gruff, voice.

Maybe it will. Eddie Brock, in the cartoons, speaks like a typical New Yorker. A gruffer version of Moe from The Simpsons.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Yeah organic webbing is the same basis for comparison 🙄

They GAVE him a power, how is that any better?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
My imagination is just fine.

I just don't let it sink to the levels of anything Hollywoods shoves in front of me is good.

You have no choice, this is where we differ. You don't have a choice in whether it does or not. You're the one telling people that they're accepting anything, and it's clear from my debates that all I'm proposing is an open mind, not accept it and shut up.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Shh, stop making assumptions.

You first.

I didn't fly off the handle

You went into a big insulting rant. You flew off the handle alright.

I'm telling you that I don't care if you like Venom or not. I honestly don't.

I'd love to see the amount of attention to people who's opinions you do care about. They must be smothered with your attention.

Poor them 😄

I'm curious as to your warped ideas.

It's sad that you find logic as warped. But then you've already proven you are incapable of speaking the truth.

This is the problem. You assume that if you like something, it's personal choice, but if someone likes something you DISLIKE, it's because it's being fed to them.

Sony are giving you a Venom that looks nothing like his comic counterpart.

To like that is surely lowering your standards, because it's not the actual character's look.

I'm saying I think your REASONS for disliking it are stupid. If they were realistic reasons like, after the movie he was shit and you dissed him, fine.

You think disliking the teaser poster because it doesn't show Venom, and pales in comparison to the other villain teasers is stupid??

LOL! Yeah, ok dude.

I didn't say it wasn't important, I said that acting is just MORE important. Which it is, in a movie.

More important to you, not to me. It's equal to me.

Because Willem Dafoe has the villainous look, and the mask covered it, but that's the risk directors take. They couldn't cast Green Goblin without a mask, people would moan. The old costume would have looked silly, people would moan. The new costume was modern, but people moaned. You can't please everybody, so you have to just do what you want to do with the movie. Sam Raimi has, and he's put out two really good movies with a couple of flaws.

No, people hated the costume because it looked like a Power Rangers costume.

A green cheap plastic look.

Nothing to do with the fact that it covered Dafoe's face. If it was a genuinely cool mask, nobody would have cared how much he wore it.

You, because you keep ignoring it, and I'm trying to civilly explain it to you.

You and civil don't belong in the same sentence.

So? That's still discussion. It proves my point. I'm not rushing in here assuming your reasons

Oh yes you are.

You've been making assumptions about me from the get go.

I'm asking you in depth about each thing you say, so I can understand it better. The more specific I get, the more nonsense I hear. I'm telling you straight up, adult to adult, I'm only interested in discussing, that's all it is to me. Now you can either be a mature adult and accept that, or you won't.

You lecture me on being mature??

Oh the irony here is too rich "idiot".

Btw, if all you're hearing is nonsense, then why are you bothering?? Seriously, you keep claiming you're interested in discussion. But if all you're getting is nonsense as you so ridiculously claim, why are you bothering??

Only an "idiot" would continue a nonsense discussion.

It doesn't bother me, you don't like it, fine. You're entitled to that, I've said it many times and you just ignore me because you want to avoid the fact that I am being on point with you.

You're not being on point with anything.

You're just beating the same dead horse with a stick. It bothers you that I disliked the teaser.

Let it go. My opinion and reasons will not change.

You use condescending winking smileys (A sin in debates)

Oh you find that a sin??

Too bad 😉

downplaying people's opinions on something unless they have an official source (which you did for months, only to end up wrong).

Ah, going back into the past again. Whatever helps you here. God knows you need every nugget of help you can get 😉

I called you an idiot over saying it's not Venom, because it factually is Venom. It's nonsense to say it's not, and your reasons for saying it's not are silly.

You called me an idiot because you're a troll. If you disagreed you could have just said so politely without resorting to name calling.

But that's not in a troll's nature.

You find my reasons silly?? I find your arguements silly, weak and desperate.

So cest la vie.

Even forgetting the teaser poster, forget the movie. You claim that unless they are in full costume, they are not their respective characters. That's an idiotic claim.

Right, so if Peter Parker went swinging around costumeless or just his Spidey trousers on, that would consitiute an image of Spider-Man??

No.

You're not an idiot for disliking the poster, that would be stupid.

Well I'll be damned, a sentence of sense from you at last.

Let's not get too silly. Danny DeVito isn't as bad as Topher Grace, let's not get stupid.

That's one of the worst fanboy comments I've seen. Bakerboy comes up with better shit than that. Well...maybe not, but pretty close.

Danny DeVito = short fat guy
Topher Grace = meek skinny guy.

Whatever way you cut it, either one is a bad choice for Brock. Topher may be around the right age, but that's all he's got against Danny.

I don't look like Captain Obvious, I play the role well enough though.

Indeed you do.

And Brock is a slightly unrealistically proportioned human, artist depending.

Brock is tall, built, intimidating guy. Every artist draws a character out of proportion at some time or another.

It doesn't excuse casting against type.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You first.

You went into a big insulting rant. You flew off the handle alright.

If you found it insulting, that's your problem. I attacked your debate.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
I'd love to see the amount of attention to people who's opinions you do care about. They must be smothered with your attention.

Poor them 😄

Seriously, this is a genuine request. Either accept what I've told you, or stop dwelling on it.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
It's sad that you find logic as warped. But then you've already proven you are incapable of speaking the truth.

I'm incapable of speaking what you want to hear, to your liking, yes. I'm not Silverstein.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Sony are giving you a Venom that looks nothing like his comic counterpart.

Ahh, so now Brock IS Venom, finally coming to your senses. I knew you'd slip into that.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
To like that is surely lowering your standards, because it's not the actual character's look.

I said I could handle it if he turned in a brilliant performance, I never said I thought it was great.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You think disliking the teaser poster because it doesn't show Venom, and pales in comparison to the other villain teasers is stupid??

No, I think your reasons for disliking it are stupid. You can dislike what you want.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
More important to you, not to me. It's equal to me.

Eli Roth thinks the same. The last movie he churned out was Hostel.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
No, people hated the costume because it looked like a Power Rangers costume.

A green cheap plastic look.

Nothing to do with the fact that it covered Dafoe's face. If it was a genuinely cool mask, nobody would have cared how much he wore it.

I was speaking for me.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You and civil don't belong in the same sentence.

I've been asking you civilly on said matter, you childishly ignore.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh yes you are.

You've been making assumptions about me from the get go.

Is this how you debate? One person says something, rather than try to A) Prove wrong or B) Admit you're wrong, you just say the opposite?

I've been playing the cards you deal.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You lecture me on being mature??

Oh the irony here is too rich "idiot".

Wasn't a lecture, was a piece of advise/request.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Btw, if all you're hearing is nonsense, then why are you bothering?? Seriously, you keep claiming you're interested in discussion. But if all you're getting is nonsense as you so ridiculously claim, why are you bothering??

Why are you? You claim the same.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Only an "idiot" would continue a nonsense discussion.

Truth be told, it is idiotic of me to give someone like you as much time as I have, but I have faith that sooner or later you'll remove the defensive cap and explain things to me sensibly, rather than nervously.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You're not being on point with anything.

You're just beating the same dead horse with a stick. It bothers you that I disliked the teaser.

Why are you attempting to tell me what I'm bothered by? I told you I don't care that you don't like it, that means it's a fact. An undeniable truth.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Let it go. My opinion and reasons will not change.

I've said SO many times that I am not trying to change them. Why are you ignoring what I say? I'm asking you seriously now, me to you.

You keep saying things in ignorance of me saying I don't believe them, so why? What is your reason for doing so?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh you find that a sin??

Too bad 😉

If you can't back yourself up with nothing more than text and evidence, you can't back yourself up credibly.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Ah, going back into the past again. Whatever helps you here. God knows you need every nugget of help you can get 😉

All you're doing right now is just retorting to my lines, granted I'm doing the same, but this is why it proves you are desperate.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You called me an idiot because you're a troll. If you disagreed you could have just said so politely without resorting to name calling.

You who are without manners, now request them? I thought you were made of harder materials.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
But that's not in a troll's nature.

I'm not a troll, by the definition of the term.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
You find my reasons silly?? I find your arguements silly, weak and desperate.

You're the one retorting to have something to say. When was the last time you replied to me regarding the movie?

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Right, so if Peter Parker went swinging around costumeless or just his Spidey trousers on, that would consitiute an image of Spider-Man??

No.

But it would factually be Spider-Man.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Wwll I'll be damned, a sentence of sense from you at last.

Been saying that all along, Ock.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Danny DeVito = short fat guy
Topher Grace = meek skinny guy.

Eddie Brock is tall and bulky. Topher is tall and average (or he will be).

Danny DeVito is short and fat. Totally different.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Whatever way you cut it, either one is a bad choice for Brock. Topher may be around the right age, but that's all he's got against Danny.

Oh come on, you're sitting there telling me that Danny DeVito is as credible a casting choice for Eddie Brock as Topher Grace.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Indeed you do.

Try catching the subliminals at any point.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Brock is tall, built, intimidating guy. Every artist draws a character out of proportion at some time or another.

It doesn't excuse casting against type.

Then you realise Venom could never be exactly like the comics?

-AC

Ok, I gotta go to bed soon, so I'll wrap this up as we're going in circles here. And it's pissing people off. I see rogue has also expressed annoyance at our debate.

-First off, Alpha Centauri, you are a troll. And a pathetic one too. "I called you an idiot but I didn't intend for you to be insulted."

LOL! I must remember that one next time I see someone insulting someone else. Oh he didn't mean for it to insult you 😄

-Second, that is not a pic of Venom. That is a transformation pic of Brock being engulfed by the symbiote. Venom is the monster he becomes when fully covered by the symbiote. You can try and twist with all your little insignificant technicalities. It's not Venom.

-Topher Grace, is not in any way,shape or form physically suitable for Brock. He can act his ass off for all I care, but for ME, the character has to look like he should as well as act as he should, just like the other villains did. Both are equally important to me. Even if I was a director. Otherwise you might as well hire anyone you like. I remember Sam saying he wanted to stay true to look of the characters when he started these movies. Why did that falter with Venom?? Because he doesn't like him.

-You find the fact that I dislike this poster because it doesn't showcase a proper pic of Venom stupid?? Good for you. I found your reasons for disliking my reasons weak and stupid. Cest la vie.

-Next time you encounter someone who's reasons or opinions you dislike, I know it will be hard, but try not to call them any names. Just try it. As a novelty. A break from the norm.

Nighty night 😉

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-First off, Alpha Centauri, you are a troll. And a pathetic one too. "I called you an idiot but I didn't intend for you to be insulted."

LOL! I must remember that one next time I see someone insulting someone else. Oh he didn't mean for it to insult you 😄

You could have let it roll off your back and call me an idiot back if you wanted to fight fire with fire, you didn't. You got insulted and threw back a childish PERSONAL insult.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-Second, that is not a pic of Venom. That is a transformation pic of Brock being engulfed by the symbiote. Venom is the monster he becomes when fully covered by the symbiote. You can try and twist with all your little insignificant technicalities. It's not Venom.

Yes, it is Venom.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-Topher Grace, is not in any way,shape or form physically suitable for Brock. He can act his ass off for all I care, but for ME, the character has to look like he should as well as act as he should, just like the other villains did. Both are equally important to me. Even if I was a director. Otherwise you might as well hire anyone you like. I remember Sam saying he wanted to stay true to look of the characters when he started these movies. Why did that falter with Venom?? Because he doesn't like him.

I knew that if I made you run in enough circles I could catch you out.

The funny thing is, you previously said "It's not Venom, it's Brock becoming Venom, Brock is not Venom.". Then you said they cast BROCK wrong. So if Brock is not Venom (which he is), why are you saying things like "Why did that falter with Venom, he doesn't look like him?". I thought you were discussing Brock, who to you, is not Venom? Who, ironically, you said looked really good from what you've seen.

Checkmate on that little number. You know Brock = Venom as much as I do, but you tried weaseling out so often than you ended up chasing your tail and coming back on yourself.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-You find the fact that I dislike this poster because it doesn't showcase a proper pic of Venom stupid?? Good for you. I found your reasons for disliking my reasons weak and stupid. Cest la vie.

Typical childish response with nothing to back it up.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-Next time you encounter someone who's reasons or opinions you dislike, I know it will be hard, but try not to call them any names. Just try it. As a novelty. A break from the norm.

To this day I've never dissed anyone's face. Debates? Yes. Faces? No.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
-Nighty night 😉

Indeed it was.

-AC

Originally posted by Altar[1stONE]
Well it could have been worse....we could have had morbious "FOOOlleeeeciaa..."

😆 simply, awesome

god he was so emo in the cartoon

Topher looks great for the Venom part because i always wanted another tiny/skinny freak to play Venom instead of a muscle massed Eddie just like old Pete.

Does anybody realize that this is not a teaser poster, ffs? It's an internet wallpaper (produced by Marvel, by the way) to instill excitement in the fans of the movies.

It wasn't meant to be this great unveiling of Venom. Give it up.

Originally posted by H. S. 6

It wasn't meant to be this great unveiling of Venom. Give it up.

That's what I've been saying.

It's not a pic of Venom. The only image of Venom shown was the footage at comic con.

Doc Ock, AC, I only hope I have to say this once. Whatever the issue is, end it now, at this very post. If need be, take it to the pm, but don't bring it here.

Tony Stark is Ironman. T'Challa is Black Panther. Jack is Tyler Durden. Peter Parker is Spiderman. They are these personas with or without the costumes.

Except for "Jack" who was only Tyler when he was hallucinating or asleep. But I'm not supposed to talk about that.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Does anybody realize that this is not a teaser poster, ffs? It's an internet wallpaper (produced by Marvel, by the way) to instill excitement in the fans of the movies.

It wasn't meant to be this great unveiling of Venom. Give it up.

ok, its not a teaser pic if you want to be technical. But it's still a very bad quality and overall bad internet wallpaper. 🙄

What do you need of she venom images?

I need all of the issuez she waz in plz, thnks! 🙂

Thats kinda alot to scan, bud (I know, seeing as I own them). You should just go out and buy the issues. I've got some other pictures of Ann Weying on my site. Check 'em out:

http://symbiosis.awardspace.com/