Punisher--Hero or Villain?

We could argue about the definition of "antihero" for all eternity but i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.

I personally think he's a villain because he's not motivated by justice or even vengeance--just hatred. He could just as easily have started a war on police or even government. He's a cold-blooded killer. So what if he kinda has a sense of honor? He certainly doesn't anymore, and he wouldn't not fight a man unarmed if he didn't know he could kill him anymore. That last sentence confused me. I'm gonna stop talking now.

And in what dimension could the Hulk possibly be considered a hero?

Originally posted by Lord Magnus
We could argue about the definition of "antihero" for all eternity but i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.

I personally think he's a villain because he's not motivated by justice or even vengeance--just hatred. He could just as easily have started a war on police or even government. He's a cold-blooded killer. So what if he kinda has a sense of honor? He certainly doesn't anymore, and he wouldn't not fight a man unarmed if he didn't know he could kill him anymore. That last sentence confused me. I'm gonna stop talking now.

And in what dimension could the Hulk possibly be considered a hero?

It's not really vs. but it doesn't fit anywhere else. Felt like putting it here.

Thoughts?

Anybody?

No? Ah, well.

Hulk is an anti-hero, not because he sides with villans, but his destructive nature often has the good guys pursuing him, getting him to stop by talk or action. And other times he there helping the right forces. Part of it has to do where his mental state currently sits.

Punisher is becoming someone less and less I can root for, because of his all-purpose answer of death to anything. Even Wolverine seems to find more shades of grey in his life, and of course is often defending his mutant family.

hulk is not a here or vilain. i dont know why people concider him a hero. he doesnt go saving peoples lives or nothing. and yes has done many serious things to others. but he doesnt go after the world and do abunch of crap like some of those other insane villains

Originally posted by Lord Magnus
We could argue about the definition of "antihero" for all eternity but i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.

I personally think he's a villain because he's not motivated by justice or even vengeance--just hatred. He could just as easily have started a war on police or even government. He's a cold-blooded killer. So what if he kinda has a sense of honor? He certainly doesn't anymore, and he wouldn't not fight a man unarmed if he didn't know he could kill him anymore. That last sentence confused me. I'm gonna stop talking now.

And in what dimension could the Hulk possibly be considered a hero?

correction: hate and vengeance, remember his family was killed by the mafia, and yes i agree the punisher actually 'killing' people instead of bringing them to justice is wrong because that is something we call MURDER....and u become a WANTED individual for that and WANTED DEAD....but, he certaintly doesnt hold back nething like other heroes does he..? lol nope

Well the punisher does what the police cant, He kills criminals. But I suppose just because of a few corrupt beuracrats he shouldnt resort to murder. But you can say that by killing crims he is resorting to the very thing hes trying to destroy yada-yada, I would say he is a hero and doing a good job. Serial killers deserve to die...

Ah but there's the rub. By killing the "serial killers" and others one considers "guilty" then one becomes a serial killer. It's a slippery slope. Who is "innocent" and who is "guilty" becomes completly subjective.

"Most Descipable Act: Gunning down a couple for jay-walking, and another fellow for littering. Frank has since switched to de-caf."
From
http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/punisher/punisher.html

Words like Hero and Villian are meaningless when concerning the punisher.

How about psycho with a gun?

He's a hero, probably more than the rest of the so-called heroes out there. Why? Because he's not gonna let his compassion stand in the way of what's right. He's willing to do whatever it takes to see justice served, even if it gives him nightmares. Sacrificing himself in this way makes him even more of a hero, at least to me 😛

If I had to draw lines I'd say Villian. He can't destroy everything....hell sometimes he kills people on asumptions, like just being at a mob meating. Good place to be? No. A offence that justifies killing? Absolutly not. Its not that he kills, it that half the time he doesn't even know exactly who he is killing....he is reackless. He doesn't hink about the fallout after he blows someone away. You cut the head off the mob innocent people die in the power vacum you caused in order to get your revenge or "punishment". Was he justified in killing the guys that were involved in his families murder? Yes. But after that he has prolly caused other people just as innocent to get killed because he doesn't react logicly. He is a lunitic with a gun....and might makes right policy. No thought to the concequences, no hesitation, no remorse just pissed off dude going after a generalized wrong. That being said, he is a damn interesting character because of the vague line between good and evil and what he does.

this topic certainly takes on a deeper meaning than just a comic character because we have laws about captial punishment that we debate about everyday. I agree that the punisher is just a lunatic with a gun as much justice he brings he fails to consider people could change. I remember the first time I heard of the punisher and thought this guy is no hero.

He's a villain. You can tell because Batman took time to stop and kick his ass.
😄

Punisher doesn't kill good people, he kills the scum of the earth, he saves people when he can, and tries not to get innocent people involved with his war...i don't concider pun a hero or a villian, he does heroic things when the oportunity arises, but the majority of the time he does what he always wanted to do, kill people who deserve it, and fight in a neverending war...i think of him as a soldier...or a guy with a hobby...

Originally posted by Juntai
He's a villain. You can tell because Batman took time to stop and kick his ass.
😄

Originally posted by scotsmn
He's a hero, probably more than the rest of the so-called heroes out there. Why? Because he's not gonna let his compassion stand in the way of what's right. He's willing to do whatever it takes to see justice served, even if it gives him nightmares. Sacrificing himself in this way makes him even more of a hero, at least to me 😛

then i question your mental health..... or at least your moral code

since when is murdering people "what's right"? he doesn't know why everyone he's killed are doing what they're doing.... maybe one of the mob guys he's killed was an undercover agent... a lot of the drugrunners he's killed will have been forced into that life and may have no other options

he's a freakin maniac and the Avengers should take him down

Fuk the Avengers...

Originally posted by jgiant
Fuk the Avengers...

the Avengers rule..... **** you

😛

Punisher is more on the lines of a hero, but someone who is not as noble as the rest.

As for Hulk, he's a hero, come on. He's destructive, yes, but he fights on the side of good KNOWINGLY and tries his best not to hurt people. The guy f'ed up Onslaught, c'mon lol.

Originally posted by Scoobless
the Avengers rule..... **** you

😛