Originally posted by Rampant ox
Ive never made such a ridiculous claim. Im a staunch beleiver of Dooku's superiority over Windu. 😐In terms of which is the better form, Makashi is better than Vapaad - in duelling at least. Although, obviously, it depends on the practicioner of the corresponding form as to who will get the victory.
That depends, actually. Makashi is the ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, and so -- in a conventional duel -- it is certainly on par with Vaapad and possibly superior. Count Dooku was credited with defeating Mace Windu prior to the Clone Wars; though one must take into account that given the thirty year age disparity between them, this might have been a time where Windu's own skill was novice-level compared to Dooku's own legendary prominence.
However, as you say, it often depends on the user. Master Yoda and Anakin Skywalker are either superior to Count Dooku or have overcome him in lightsaber combat while utilizing "inferior" forms. And, one must remember, Yoda refers to Vaapad as "the deadliest" form of them all.
What underlines and virtually cements Windu's victory over Dooku is that Dooku's Sith-allegiance and dark side propensity (he's stated to be an even greater Lord of the Sith than his status as a Jedi Master) make him vulnerable to the intricate nature of Vaapad; it allows Windu to siphon off dark side energy and negate whatever advantages the dark sider might have. The RotS novelization confirms that once Windu immersed himself in Vaapad, he and Palpatine were equals with a blade. So, if Dooku is superior with a blade, it won't matter.
Then, cue the shatterpoint charism, and Dooku will inexorably lose against Windu.
Originally posted by Gideon
The RotS novelization confirms that once Windu immersed himself in Vaapad, he and Palpatine were equals with a blade.
I don't know who doubts they were equal with blades, but were they equal in force powers, certainly not, and Dooku's greater powers powers would put him over Windu.
who Sidious considers "an occasionally competent warrior".
Yeah, she was fairly competent in Obsession.
Originally posted by kiddo44
I don't know who doubts they were equal with blades, but were they equal in force powers, certainly not, and Dooku's greater powers powers would put him over Windu.
Greater powers? Right, because he's really displayed ability with the force surpassing the way Mace Windu telekinetically holds hundreds of tonnes of rock in place.
I don't know who doubts they were equal with blades, but were they equal in force powers, certainly not, and Dooku's greater powers powers would put him over Windu.
This post confirms a suspicion that the rest of us has harbored for a long time: you're a Dooku fanboy.
First, your statement is completely f--king retarded, to be blunt. "OmgZ! Dookoo's Froce powrs r totally superiur to Mace's!!1!oneone!!111!" -- even if that were true (which I'm not denying that it is) it is completely irrelevant.
Palpatine (who is superior to Dooku in the Force) was unable to use those superior Force powers against Mace with any tangible result. Ergo, your entire line-of-logic fails. Entirely.
Originally posted by Gideon[B]Palpatine
(who is superior to Dooku in the Force) was unable to use those superior Force powers against Mace with any tangible result. E[/B]
Well maybe that's has something to do with the fact that he was holding his force powers back waiting on Anakin.
This post confirms a suspicion that the rest of us has harbored for a long time: you're a Dooku fanboy.
If somebody doesn't agree with your bias argument there a fanboy. Now talk about a retard post.
Originally posted by Gideon
This post confirms a suspicion that the rest of us has harbored for a long time: you're a Dooku fanboy.First, your statement is completely f--king retarded, to be blunt. "OmgZ! Dookoo's Froce powrs r totally superiur to Mace's!!1!oneone!!111!" -- even if that were true (which I'm not denying that it is) it is completely irrelevant.
Palpatine (who is superior to Dooku in the Force) was unable to use those superior Force powers against Mace with any tangible result. Ergo, your entire line-of-logic fails. Entirely.
No, not really actually. Firstly, as Kiddo made reference to, it's possible that Palpatine was holding back against Mace at that particular time. Secondly, force lightning is the kind of power that can be defended against physically rather than directly with the force. Mace blocking such a tangible attack with his lightsaber says nothing about how well he would be able to use the force to defend against an attack not so easily defended against physically, such as a force grip, which is something that is definitely in Dooku's arsenal. Ergo, your entire ABC argument fails. Entirely.
Originally posted by BaneLover
No, not really actually. Firstly, as Kiddo made reference to, it's possible that Palpatine was holding back against Mace at that particular time.
The burden of proof is on you, Nebaris, not me. 😉
Secondly, force lightning is the kind of power that can be defended against physically rather than directly with the force. Mace blocking such a tangible attack with his lightsaber says nothing about how well he would be able to use the force to defend against an attack not so easily defended against physically, such as a force grip, which is something that is definitely in Dooku's arsenal.
That might support Kiddo's point if all Mace did was block the lightning. Alas, he did not. Alas, your point (and his) fails. Vaapad allows for a loop that deflected Palpatine's Force lightning back upon the Sith Lord. If you believe that this applies only to Force lightning, the burden is on you to prove it.
Ergo, your entire ABC argument fails. Entirely.
None of my points fail. The same properties and circumstances that resulted in Palpatine's defeat are very likely to occur with Dooku, since it refers to the nature of Vaapad. If you believe that this will not occur with Dooku, it's up to you to prove it. 😉