Zoom VS. Cloak

Started by Adam Warlock2 pages
Originally posted by Draco69
Whattya mean? That's his power. He isn't a Speed Forcer. He can control the speed of time in his reference frame. Meaning, he can zip back to any place he had previously or WILL be in time. He thinks. He's out of the Cloak dimension and back where he originally started during the battle.

Sigh... Draco... If he gets swallowed up by Cloak, that's it. Fight is over. It's Cloak's world. Will his control of time work in a dimension that is not his own?

Originally posted by Draco69
Yeah. I covered that above. And what makes you think Cloak will be intangible at that start of the battle?Like that would work anyway.

Because most of the time, Cloak is intangible. 🙂

Are you sure it wouldn't work? I'm betting it does.

Originally posted by Draco69
Time can be frozen for Zoom. Time frozen of Cloak while he's intangible means his molecules have also stopped. He's technically solid. Zoom knocks his ghetto a$$ to Pluto.

Are sure that will work?

Height: 5 ft. 9 in.
Weight: 155 lbs.
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black

Strength Level: As Cloak, Johnson appears to be stronger than he was when he was an ordinary human being, but there is no clear indication as yet that his strength reaches superhuman levels.

Known Superhuman Powers: Cloak possesses various superhuman powers derived from the unknown drug with which he was injected. It is net known why Marshall's drug endowed Johnson and Tandy Bowen with unusual powers rather than killing them as it did others. There is apparently some unknown factor in the bodies of Johnson and Bowen that is responsible for the effects that Marshall's drug had on them.

Cloak possesses the superhuman ability to mentally create an aperture into a dimension composed of an insubstantial, featureless, intense black material of unknown nature, with no visual cues Ss to its surface, even when it is viewed against the background of the Earth dimension. This unknown black material may be related to the black substances and energies manipulated by other superhuman beings. With the aperture opened, he can either project the gas-like substance of this dimension into Earth's atmosphere in controlled amounts, or he can dispatch his toes into the dimension of darkness itself. (This "dark dimension" is not to be confused with the Dark Dimension ruled by Clea.) Though the aperture could theoretically be formed anywhere within Cloak's field of vision, he generally uses his cloak to help him define the area of the aperture. Hence, the darkness seems to issue forth from under his cloak. The largest area Cloak has yet to shroud in darkness is a volume of approximately 4,000 square feet (an entire warehouse). There is no known limit to the number of people whom Cloak may dispatch into the dimension of darkness at the same time: once he caused an entire subway train full of passengers to travel in and out of the dimension.

Very little is known about Cloak's dimension of darkness. Since beings can exist there, but there is no propagation of light (unless Dagger journeys there and illuminates part of it), the dimension may be a void which is an interstitial region between two separate universes. The dimension of darkness is said by Cloak and others who have traveled there to be cold, but this may be only a subjective impression with no basis in physical reality

Cloak and others who have traveled into the dimension of darkness have also characterized it as "evil." Whether there is something truly "evil" about the dimension, or whether these people merely perceive it that way because of the effects it has on their minds is unknown. However, other than Cloak and Dagger themselves, those who journey into this dimension experience terrifying visions of their own greatest fears and nightmares. The experience is such that, unless the traveler is protected by Dagger's light, or unless he or she remains there only briefly, he or she will lose his or her sanity. Whether or not these visions have any physical reality in the dimension of darkness is as yet unknown. Those whom Cloak allows to return from the dimension of darkness who have not received Dagger's protection feel frozen and terrified even if they retain their sanity.

Cloak constantly feels a "hunger" which compels him to seek out living victims and project them into the dimension of darkness. It is his belief that the dimension somehow "feeds" on the life forces of his victims, which can manifest themselves as light. Hence, Cloak finds himself dependent on Dagger, who generates an unusual amount of life force "light." By absorbing some of Dagger's "light" into the dimension of darkness, Cloak can satisfy the "hunger" for a time without having to project other people into the dimension. Cloak justifies the times that he does "consume" other people by his role as a vigilante. He seeks out criminals and projects them into the dimension of darkness. Sometimes he allows them to reemerge after they have been drained of most of their "light." Other times he leaves his victims within the dimension of darkness permanently, presumably to perish once all their "light" has been drained. Dagger can protect people whom Cloak "consumes" by traveling with them through the dimension and shielding them with her own "light."

Cloak has a limited degree of mental control over his "hunger," but if he goes for too long without feeding it, it will cause him psychic and physical pain, enough, eventually, to drive him mad. Cloak's "hunger" and his struggles to control it are already affecting his sanity to some degree

Cloak is also able to "teleport" himself from one point to another on Earth's surface by entering the dimension of darkness himself, traversing a distance, and emerging back into Earth's dimension He can take along other people as he does so, or he can "teleport" other people or objects from one place to another by projecting them through the dimension while he himself remains in the Earth dimension. Cloak has teleported an entire subway train over a short distance by the latter method. Distances within the dimension of darkness differ from those on Earth: a mile on Earth might be only a matter of feet in the other dimension. Hence, Cloak could "teleport" himself through the dimension of darkness from one point on Earth to a point a quarter mile away in the time it would take to walk a far shorter distance if he remained on Earth the whole time. Cloak seems to be able to perceive the Earth dimension in some manner while he is in the dimension of darkness, as he suffers no disorientation upon re-emergence, even if he has "teleported'' himself a great distance. As yet, Cloak has not used the dimension of darkness to teleport himself more than half a mile

Usually Cloak is intangible. He can pass through objects and objects (such as bullets) pass harmlessly through him He appears as a shadow in human form; his facial features remain visible, perhaps through an act of will on his part. Cloak can regain tangible human form through a tremendous act of will. He also regains tangible form when he has absorbed an unusually great amount of "light," or when he has somehow managed to master his "hunger" for a time by other means, or occasionally at other times due to as yet unknown circumstances. When Cloak becomes tangible, he is vulnerable to injury like any other human being.

This could go either way. Only way Zoom will hurt him is if he is tangible at the start of the battle. But most of the time, he's in his intagible form.

If that's your definition of intangible.... 🤨

You just mentioned Kitty Pryde. I didn't realize she was invisible.

Air molecules are constantly touched by our bodies. Specifially our lungs. If your definition were true, we simply wouldn't exist as a species. Or anything else for that matter.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Sigh... Draco... If he gets swallowed up by Cloak, that's it. Fight is over. It's Cloak's world. Will his control of time work in a dimension that is not his own?

So? Worked in 4th Dimension....and Zoom was doing fine.

Zoom is in complete control of his temporal time reference. It's also techinically impossible to even kill or even imprison Zoom because he lives in the timestream. Meaning he's pretty much everywhere at everytime. Which is also why he was seen by Lady Qwark several hundred years in the future...

The ONLY way to imprison him is by summoning a temporal anonamly. And that's only temporary.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Because most of the time, Cloak is intangible. 🙂

Dizzle explained it.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Are you sure it wouldn't work? I'm betting it does.

Hope you didn't bet your "life savings"...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
re sure that will work?

Theoritically, it should. Wally tried to turn intangible several times but Zoom still walloped his whitebread butt.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
This could go either way. Only way Zoom will hurt him is if he is tangible at the start of the battle. But mlike most of the time, he's in his intagible form.

This can only go in Zoom's favor. Cloak simply can't win. He's outmatched. Sorry, Adam but your attempts to make a one-sided fight with a deliberate winner have failed.

Originally posted by LordKaos
intangible means incapable of being touched or seen, sounds like air molecules to me

That's silly. Wave your arm around in the air. Feel that? That's your arm running through a whole bunch of air molecules.

Originally posted by Draco69 ...He thinks. He's out of the Cloak dimension and back where he originally started during the battle.

That might work. Or he might panic when confronted by the horrific visions, probably relating to his own paralysis or the cruelty he's visited on others. He is mentally unstable to begin with. It's tough to say.

Remember, Cloak once held Thanos WITH THE IG for a few moments. It's not easy to leave, even if you have some means to do so.

Originally posted by Draco69
...Like that would work anyway. Time can be frozen for Zoom. Time frozen of Cloak while he's intangible means his molecules have also stopped. He's technically solid. Zoom knocks his ghetto a$$ to Pluto. [/B]

Cloak isn't molecule-trick intangible like Flash or Vision. He's more like a ghost or a shadow. Literally no physical substance.

Wait... I explained what? Cloak is in his intangible form pretty much all of the time. The only time he will be solid is when he has recently absorbed a whole bunch of people into his dark dimension.

Now, what I wanted to know is what Cloak being intangible actually is. How it works can determine whether Zoom can hit him or not, basically.

Vision makes himself less dense to phase through things. So his molecules are still there, they're just spread out a lot more. Flash vibrates his molecules, again making them almost akin to a gas more than a solid. That said, his molecules are still there, just not as closely packed together. If time were stopped, he'd be perfectly hittable, as would Vision.

Now Strange's astral form is a projection of his "spirit". It has no mass, and therefore is physically unhittable, whether time is flowing or not.

Basically, if Cloak's intangibility is "magic" like Strange's, they stalemate. If he just gets less dense, Zoom knocks his head off. However, because of Zoom's warping thing, Cloak can't really win. Either it's 10/10 to Zoom, or both lack the ability to harm the other.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
That might work. Or he might panic when confronted by the horrific visions, probably relating to his own paralysis or the cruelty he's visited on others. He is mentally unstable to begin with. It's tough to say.

Remember, Cloak once held Thanos WITH THE IG for a few moments. It's not easy to leave, even if you have some means to do so.

Cloak isn't molecule-trick intangible like Flash or Vision. He's more like a ghost or a shadow. Literally no physical substance.

Technically, Zoom failing to get out when he fairly easily can would be PIS. It's well within his pwoer, so he can get out. In comics, his insanity might work. On here? Not an option.

Ok, thanks, I wasn't sure how Cloak's powers worked. Stalemate, neither harms or traps the other for any significant amount of time.

Interesting thread. I've started quite a few Cloak threads myself. He's one of those catch 22 characters. He's not overly powerful, but he brings a significant tactical advantage.

I'd say it's a draw given Zoom's temporal powers. Cloak could eat bits of Zoom's soul, but Zoom could just negate the effects by going back to before it happened.

And Cloak's normal state is intangible unless he's consumed sufficient amounts of light to satisfy the darkness beast that lives inside of his dimension. He's like a living dimensional aperture and only becomes solid when he consumes enough 'light' (soul) to seal the breach for a time.

I'm speaking of the literal definition of intangible not the comic one, to support that air molecules, which cannot be seen or touched, are intangible. and further more the manipulation of time will not effect the solidity of an object, just it's ability to move through time, now if Zoom could manipulate the fabric of space then he could definitely solidify an intangible object.

Bump

🥷

BA! 😠 again? 😛

cloak's ability to eat people is a bit overrated. spidey has escaped from him, so has doom. i see no reason zoom couldn't escape as well for a number of reasons.

and sorry, lam, we're usually in agreement with most things, but . . . no WAY he beats thanos even if he swallowed him. 😬

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Sigh... Draco... If he gets swallowed up by Cloak, that's it. Fight is over. It's Cloak's world. Will his control of time work in a dimension that is not his own?

Because most of the time, Cloak is intangible. 🙂

Are you sure it wouldn't work? I'm betting it does.

Are sure that will work?

This could go either way. Only way Zoom will hurt him is if he is tangible at the start of the battle. But most of the time, he's in his intagible form.

How is Cloak beatable? Seriously. What is his weakness, if any? He doesn't appear to have any way to beat him. He's, for the most part, intangible. And then he's got the cloak. How does he lose?

Sounds like quite the boring character to me. Unless, of course, someone would like to prove me wrong.

you can hit him in the face when he's solid, or jump on his cloak from behind. he is NOT immune to telepathic assault, and as i just said he cannot contain any level of power. doom caused him quite a ruckus while he was inside cloak and eventually forced his way out.

he is not unbeatable. a little boring though. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
you can hit him in the face when he's solid, or jump on his cloak from behind. he is NOT immune to telepathic assault, and as i just said he cannot contain any level of power. doom caused him quite a ruckus while he was inside cloak and eventually forced his way out.

he is not unbeatable. a little boring though. 😬

Yea. He sure sounds like a boring character. Only a select few beings can actually cause him trouble.

How did Spider-Man escape?

just used his spidey sense to find the way out. doom basically blasted his way out.

Zoom is a badass.

he wins