I think some Americans are a little confused on the less guns=less shootings deal.
It's a scientific fact.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Yeah, and they use their gun. Obviously people can kill by other means, but the fact remains. Easy method of killing- increase in instances of that easy method of killing.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I think some Americans are a little confused on the less guns=less shootings deal.It's a scientific fact.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Yeah, and they use their gun. Obviously people can kill by other means, but the fact remains. Easy method of killing- increase in instances of that easy method of killing.
I find that a little odd also, it must be a cultural thing.
Some people argue that if someone was intent on killing someone, they'd do so with or without a gun, and that is not so much true. To kill with a knife or similar instument, that must be used in such close proximity, is a very personal act. You must be physically close to the victim and take a more active part with the weapon. That is a line that few people, even enraged ones, are willing to cross. However, a gun is a much less personal weapon, it can be done at a distance with no contact or even awareness of the victim. The thought of it being so 'clean' makes it an easier act to carry out than the instance preeviously mentioned.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
I find that a little odd also, it must be a cultural thing.Some people argue that if someone was intent on killing someone, they'd do so with or without a gun, and that is not so much true. To kill with a knife or similar instument, that must be used in such close proximity, is a very personal act. You must be physically close to the victim and take a more active part with the weapon. preeviously mentioned.
The last 2 posts by you and Vic Von Doom had some good points.
Be that as it may, I'll ask you to politely refrain from conjecture on our culture if you haven't been here. Americans aren't the ONLY warmongers ont he block.
Remember that hundreds of years back, the French took their Fur Trade War to North America when the stocks were depleted in Canada, and several European nationalities inflicted their will on the Canadian Indian tribes as they were forced to pick a side in that fight. Not to mention forcing religion down their throats.
But let me tell you something about killing with somehting other than a gun as you note in your post..My friend, my mother is a retired correction officer. And as one who once conducted cell searches, you would be suprised how many homemade weapons were taken from the cells.
A bed spring, straightened and sharpened on the cell floor, with a handle made out wound nylon cord or sewing thread, is a steel shank capable of penetrating someone's chest with little or no impedance.
A magazine, rolled into a tube and soaked in resin until it's as hard as a rock and about 5 pounds, is a club capable of smashing someone's skull.
A pen can be rigged to explode if it's filled with sulfur from matchheads, and can blind someone from the flash or burn their retinas.
A bar of soap is forbidden because inmates can take utensils and keys, and make impressions in the soap and make reproductions of anything they need to kill someone. They take a can of that stuff they use to heat food in trays and use it as a welder to melt the metal and pour it into the mold.
A little over 500 weapons were found one year,all homemade by the inmates. So as you can see, regardless of guns, knives, whatever, the mind is still the most dangerous weapon.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
The last 2 posts by you and Vic Von Doom had some good points.Be that as it may, I'll ask you to politely refrain from conjecture on our culture if you haven't been here. Americans aren't the ONLY warmongers ont he block.
And if I have spent extensive amounts of time in the United States am I allowed to comment? Or what if I am aware of the many facets of american culture from New York to the Louisiana Bayou to L.A. to Even Denver, would I be permitted to comment then? Being ignorant of american culture may be a reason to take offence, but to take offence and ask me to refrain because I am not american is rather silly.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
But let me tell you something about killing with somehting other than a gun as you note in your post..My friend, my mother is a retired correction officer. And as one who once conducted cell searches, you would be suprised how many homemade weapons were taken from the cells.A bed spring, straightened and sharpened on the cell floor, with a handle made out wound nylon cord or sewing thread, is a steel shank capable of penetrating someone's chest with little or no impedance.
A magazine, rolled into a tube and soaked in resin until it's as hard as a rock and about 5 pounds, is a club capable of smashing someone's skull.
A pen can be rigged to explode if it's filled with sulfur from matchheads, and can blind someone from the flash or burn their retinas.
A bar of soap is forbidden because inmates can take utensils and keys, and make impressions in the soap and make reproductions of anything they need to kill someone. They take a can of that stuff they use to heat food in trays and use it as a welder to melt the metal and pour it into the mold.
A little over 500 weapons were found one year,all homemade by the inmates. So as you can see, regardless of guns, knives, whatever, the mind is still the most dangerous weapon.
So you are comparing the behaviour of convicted felons and their inclination to make weapons from available materials to the theory that I presented that the average person would be more likely to kill someone with a gun than a more personal weapon?
You either see the general population of your country as a population with the same values and personal restrictions and behaviour of your average prison inmate, or you made a completely moot point.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
And if I have spent extensive amounts of time in the United States am I allowed to comment? Or what if I am aware of the many facets of american culture from New York to the Louisiana Bayou to L.A. to Even Denver, would I be permitted to comment then? Being ignorant of american culture may be a reason to take offence, but to take offence and ask me to refrain because I am not american is rather silly.
And if I went to Canada, and said something about you guys based
on what I percieved to be a problem in YOUR countr,y would you take
it to heart and coinsider it, or dismiss it as "Americans thinking they know it all"? Being ignorant of Canadian culture may be a reason to take offense, but to take offense and ask me to refrain because I am not Canadian is rather silly.
C'mon dude.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
So you are comparing the behaviour of convicted felons and their inclination to make weapons from available materials to the theory that I presented that the average person would be more likely to kill someone with a gun than a more personal weapon?You either see the general population of your country as a population with the same values and personal restrictions and behaviour of your average prison inmate, or you made a completely moot point.
You said earlier:
Some people argue that if someone was intent on killing someone, they'd do so with or without a gun, and that is not so much true.
I'm simply saying that if you have no reason to believe that people wouldn't resort to more personal and physical ways to kill someone, look at the ways that you CAN do it, and the fact that it HAS happened. In jail or on the streets, someone still dies. So your point about people not killing if no gun was present, is also moot.
And your eqaution of America's population with that of inmates, is YOUR supposition. There again, Americans and Australians were originally seen as criminals according to most Europeans, so what's the difference?
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
And if I went to Canada, and said something about you guys based
on what I percieved to be a problem in YOUR countr,y would you take
it to heart and coinsider it, or dismiss it as "Americans thinking they know it all"? Being ignorant of Canadian culture may be a reason to take offense, but to take offense and ask me to refrain because I am not Canadian is rather silly.C'mon dude.
There is a difference between merely going to a country for a visit and visiting it extensively, meeting with it's officials and peoples and researching and taking interest in their politics.
That being said, exposure to the wealth of american media makes it a little easier for 'out of towners' to comment on current american politics than it does for americans to comment on other's nations actions.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
You said earlier:
Some people argue that if someone was intent on killing someone, they'd do so with or without a gun, and that is not so much true.I'm simply saying that if you have no reason to believe that people wouldn't resort to more personal and physical ways to kill someone, look at the ways that you CAN do it, and the fact that it HAS happened. In jail or on the streets, someone still dies. So your point about people not killing if no gun was present, is also moot.
You might want to read a post more closely before you comment. I did not say that People would stop killing eachother if guns were not available. I stated that LESS people would be inclined to commit murder as it would take a different state of mind to kill someone with a more personal weapon than it does to pull a trigger.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
And your eqaution of America's population with that of inmates, is YOUR supposition. There again, Americans and Australians were originally seen as criminals according to most Europeans, so what's the difference?
What's the difference between being seen as a criminal and being a criminal? Commiting the crime for starters.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
There is a difference between merely going to a country for a visit and visiting it extensively, meeting with it's officials and peoples and researching and taking interest in their politics.That being said, exposure to the wealth of american media makes it a little easier for 'out of towners' to comment on current american politics than it does for americans to comment on other's nations actions..
Well if American media is the only source you trust, instead of listening to the people whose lives are affected by it in one way or another, then you have the wrong sources. You forget that the media and officials have their own political and personal agendas..do you really think that the telling of the truth is the agenda of the media? No.Sensationalism rules out over truth every day. So while there may be a sliver of truth as to what is said, remember that the truth is NOT high on the agenda of ANY media source whose politicians sign their checks.
Y
Originally posted by KharmaDog
You might want to read a post more closely before you comment. I did not say that People would stop killing eachother if guns were not available. I stated that LESS people would be inclined to commit murder as it would take a different state of mind to kill someone with a morepersonal weapon than it does to pull a trigger.
Tell that to the people who have stabbed, beaten, and clubbed others to death with foreign objects, or to the common mugger who guts his victim with a shiv after he takes their wallet. You forget that some people who do shit like this are so high on dope that they have NO FEAR.
I once saw a guy who was about 150 pounds, and about 5' 3 or 4, have to be subdued by 5 cops because he was strung out on PCP. And I know it was PCP because I'm friends with the EMT guys who took him to the hospital. They overheard the report his gf gave the police. You forget that is some cases, drug influence is involved.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
What's the difference between being seen as a criminal and being a criminal? Commiting the crime for starters.
Ask the Old World leaders who saw Americans as criminals for breaking away fromtheir precious Europa Universalis to pursue own onw ways...or the Australians, who turned a criminal colony into one of the coolest places on earth. I know, I've been there 🙂
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Well if American media is the only source you trust, instead of listening to the people whose lives are affected by it in one way or another, then you have the wrong sources. You forget that the media and officials have their own political and personal agendas..do you really think that the telling of the truth is the agenda of the media? No.Sensationalism rules out over truth every day. So while there may be a sliver of truth as to what is said, remember that the truth is NOT high on the agenda of ANY media source whose politicians sign their checks.
Now where did I say that the American media is my only source of info? Do you read any of my posts, or do you just briefly glance at them and try to imagine what you think I am saying? If you are going to respond to what you think I am saying as opposed to what I am actually saying than you are best not to respond at all.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Tell that to the people who have stabbed, beaten, and clubbed others to death with foreign objects, or to the common mugger who guts his victim with a shiv after he takes their wallet. You forget that some people who do shit like this are so high on dope that they have NO FEAR.
Yes, and once again these do not closely reflect the point I was making at all, but please continue as I am sure you are entertaining someone with these irrelavant comments.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
I once saw a guy who was about 150 pounds, and about 5' 3 or 4, have to be subdued by 5 cops because he was strung out on PCP. And I know it was PCP because I'm friends with the EMT guys who took him to the hospital. They overheard the report his gf gave the police. You forget that is some cases, drug influence is involved.
See my above comment.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Ask the Old World leaders who saw Americans as criminals for breaking away fromtheir precious Europa Universalis to pursue own onw ways...or the Australians, who turned a criminal colony into one of the coolest places on earth. I know, I've been there 🙂
Once again..your point? You really have to try and stay on topic, you have derailed more threads in the last week than some of the mightest trolls that this board has ever seen have done in the last couple of months.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Once again..your point? You really have to try and stay on topic, you have derailed more threads in the last week than some of the mightest trolls that this board has ever seen have done in the last couple of months.
It's all irrelevant because you don't agree with it.
As far as glancing and making your own opinons, it seems that's been the mode of operation here for YOU and PVS as of late.
If it dosen't have to do with the outcome YOU desire, then it's time to make accusations like this.
Just because I post in a way that makes you percieve it as off topic, dosen't mean it's off topic. You can tell a story several different ways or offer opinions in a way that all lead to the same road. Maybe it's time that YOU stopped being so linear....
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
It's all irrelevant because you don't agree with it.
That sure sounds like whining, I'm hoping it isn't, but it sounds that way.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
As far as glancing and making your own opinons, it seems that's been the mode of operation here for YOU and PVS as of late.
Awe, yes, the redirect, excellent defense.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Just because I post in a way that makes you percieve it as off topic, dosen't mean it's off topic. You can tell a story several different ways or offer opinions in a way that all lead to the same road. Maybe it's time that YOU stopped being so linear....
No, the fact that you post completely off topic is what makes it off topic. If it were merely a tangent you would at some point bring it back around to the topic, but you never seem to get around to that.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I think some Americans are a little confused on the less guns=less shootings deal.It's a scientific fact.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Yeah, and they use their gun. Obviously people can kill by other means, but the fact remains. Easy method of killing- increase in instances of that easy method of killing.
Yeah and most of the time this is done by gangs, criminals etc etc the point being they don't need to follow the law nor do they care about gun laws. They get one and shoot.......
Originally posted by KharmaDog
That sure sounds like whining, I'm hoping it isn't, but it sounds that way.Awe, yes, the redirect, excellent defense.
No, the fact that you post completely off topic is what makes it off topic. If it were merely a tangent you would at some point bring it back around to the topic, but you never seem to get around to that.
And it's your hypnotism and fascination with the words "on topic" that make you unable to grasp alternate concepts that while not directly related, have some relevance in one way or another. You're looking for a straight and narrow path and we all know there is no such thing as a straight line (only in mathematics.)
Perfection, like free will, is an illusion.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
And it's your hypnotism and fascination with the words "on topic" that make you unable to grasp alternate concepts that while not directly related, have some relevance in one way or another. You're looking for a straight and narrow path and we all know there is no such thing as a straight line (only in mathematics.)Perfection, like free will, is an illusion.
Hey, I don't mind going the long way around the valley instead of straight through to prove a point or make an arguement. It's just that you seem to get lost along the way.
I don't think it's my ability or inability to grasp alternate concepts, I think it's your inability to complete the long voyage that your tangents take. Blaming your inability to follow through with a concept (on multiple threads I might add) on your percieved abilities regarding the comprehension of others is rather weak.
I have gone off topic before and I probably will again, I am the first to admit to it (and if I didn't there'd be more than one member ready to jump on me for not admitting it) but you seem to be making that your M.O. in the last couple of days.
This thread was once good, but it is so far gone that someone should just close it.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Hey, I don't mind going the long way around the valley instead of straight through to prove a point or make an arguement. It's just that you seem to get lost along the way.I don't think it's my ability or inability to grasp alternate concepts, I think it's your inability to complete the long voyage that your tangents take. Blaming your inability to follow through with a concept (on multiple threads I might add) on your percieved abilities regarding the comprehension of others is rather weak.
I have gone off topic before and I probably will again, I am the first to admit to it (and if I didn't there'd be more than one member ready to jump on me for not admitting it) but you seem to be making that your M.O. in the last couple of days.
This thread was once good, but it is so far gone that someone should just close it.
Dude, this whole thing hinges on your inability to realize that despite your opinions on why America should give all our guns up, and your opinions on why we should have let Tookie live, and everything in between, that YOU are percieving any explanation in defense of the things you disagree with, as off topic.
NO American has to give up our rights because outsiders disagree with them.
You ***** about the Patriot Act and it's imposition on Canada, yet you do everything you can to try to alter our Constitution and our heritage based on your own case law, and that of the UN and the international community.
Life isn't perfect, people die every day.But that dosen't mean that you take away the rights of everyone to please a few.
Crime exists. People die every day, life isn't fair, and you can't trust people to do "the right thing"any more than you can trust Iraqis or Afghans to do "the right thing" with their new found democracies..
Life isn't fair, and people don't always do the right thing. There's the way it should be, and there's the way it is. Get used to it.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
...and your opinions on why we should have let Tookie live
proof that you do not know how to read.
now go back back way back through this thread, before
you came in an took a huge off topic shit on it, and read
his posts regarding whether or not tookie should have been put to death.
Originally posted by PVS
proof that you do not know how to read.
now go back back way back through this thread, before
you came in an took a huge off topic shit on it, and read
his posts regarding whether or not tookie should have been put to death.
Oh yes....Again I'm the blame. *YAAAAAWWNNN*
Wake me up when they find all 7 of the Dragon Balls, so we can bring the guy back to life so we can make a group wish that he never died so everyone will shut up, will you? And while you're at it make a wish to remind some here that everyone is entitled to an opinion regardless of it's political direction or source,and that it tales more than one person to derail a thread? (oh Hi PVS)
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Dude, this whole thing hinges on your inability to realize that despite your opinions on why America should give all our guns up, and your opinions on why we should have let Tookie live, and everything in between, that YOU are percieving any explanation in defense of the things you disagree with, as off topic.
Do you even read my statements? I know I've asked you before, but you just say so much stuff that proves that you don't.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
NO American has to give up our rights because outsiders disagree with them.
Yes, I remember where I was lobbying to change the american constitution and affect the lives of all that live in america, that was a highpoint in this thread. (this is extreme sarcasm for those new to this thread)
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
You ***** about the Patriot Act and it's imposition on Canada, yet you do everything you can to try to alter our Constitution and our heritage based on your own case law, and that of the UN and the international community.
Once again, having an opinon is drastically different than trying to alter your constitution. I am beginning to think that you are an irrational person with serious issues.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Life isn't perfect, people die every day.But that dosen't mean that you take away the rights of everyone to please a few.
And god forbid anyone try and limit the needless deaths of many people, that would be unconstitutional. It's your god given right to be apatheitc to the needless deaths of others.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Crime exists. People die every day, life isn't fair, and you can't trust people to do "the right thing"any more than you can trust Iraqis or Afghans to do "the right thing" with their new found democracies..
If you are gonna through crap like that around than don't take exception to anyone who might say, "life isn't fair, and you can't trust people to do "the right thing"any more than you can trust Americans to do "the right thing" rather than invade countries without sufficient cause or evidence."
Before you have a fit, see if you can get my point.
Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Life isn't fair, and people don't always do the right thing. There's the way it should be, and there's the way it is. Get used to it.
And apparently the way it is is to be subjected to a member of this forum who is so passionate to get his point across he neither reads the posts of others or tries to relate what he is often saying to the topic at hand.