1 Samuel 15:2-3

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, that we keep the 2 commandments according to Jesus...And I don't see what so hard about loving all of creation and the creation process, god or what ever you want to call it, and loving people...

Yes you do debbiejo, you see what is so hard about it in the world. You see the Religious conflict in America, in the Middle East, in Europe. You see the wars past and present, will you still say that you cannot see what is so hard about loving all of creation and loving people?

Originally posted by KPrince
Yes you do debbiejo, you see what is so hard about it in the world. You see the Religious conflict in America, in the Middle East, in Europe. You see the wars past and present, will you still say that you cannot see what is so hard about loving all of creation and loving people?

Much of the people comes from Organized religions, not the seekers of peace and connecting with the "Source"....People who connect more spiritually instead of dogma, don't try to conqure in the name of religion.

Originally posted by debbiejo
For me it's not hard.....If you see your self as part of it, why would you want to harm any of it, which would include our connection to other people......The earth, people...everything...

Much of the people comes from Organized religions, not the seekers of peace and connecting with the "Source"....People who connect more spiritually instead of dogma, don't try to conqure in the name of religion.

Organized religions--notice the plural in religions. God has one way of life not many conflicting ways. Humanity created its own concepts of what God should be to them, not what God is. What happened in I Samuel 15:2-3 as I said before was the result of Israel rejecting God as their leader. God was giving them His [The Father's] religion. When they sought their own king, God allowed them, but God also said that they would have to fight for their own survival, because they did not want God to solve the conflicts with other nations for them. In a sense, I Samuel 15:2-3 was a curse on ancient Israel. They would have to see firsthand the horrors of war. They felt they did not need God, that they could handle being a nation on their own. The same applies to the nations of today. They make their own rules, make their own "gods" and claim they are fighting in the name of God, but they are not.

What about those who reject God altogether? They choose not to believe in God (not the true God but the God known by the world). Why? Because of religious confusion. They hear one thing about God from one religion, and another conflicting thing about God from another religion. They see nations claim to be fighting for God when they are not. They experience personal pain and ask "why", but are given a misconception of God by a person of religious authority.

Humanity hates God. We cannot understand God, so we devise our own perceptions of what God is. It is more comfortable that way, because His laws seem alien to us, they seem cold. They only seem cold because we do not understand God. We do not love God because we do not keep the Commandments. To wlh, I would have to say I Samuel 15:2-3, and all other Biblical records of ancient Israel, are examples of what NOT to do, not what is right to God.

Originally posted by KPrince
Organized religions--notice the plural in religions. God has one way of life not many conflicting ways. Humanity created its own concepts of what God should be to them, not what God is. What happened in I Samuel 15:2-3 as I said before was the result of Israel rejecting God as their leader. God was giving them His [The Father's] religion. When they sought their own king, God allowed them, but God also said that they would have to fight for their own survival, because they did not want God to solve the conflicts with other nations for them. In a sense, I Samuel 15:2-3 was a curse on ancient Israel. They would have to see firsthand the horrors of war. They felt they did not need God, that they could handle being a nation on their own. The same applies to the nations of today. They make their own rules, make their own "gods" and claim they are fighting in the name of God, but they are not.

What about those who reject God altogether? They choose not to believe in God (not the true God but the God known by the world). Why? Because of religious confusion. They hear one thing about God from one religion, and another conflicting thing about God from another religion. They see nations claim to be fighting for God when they are not. They experience personal pain and ask "why", but are given a misconception of God by a person of religious authority.

Humanity hates God. We cannot understand God, so we devise our own perceptions of what God is. It is more comfortable that way, because His laws seem alien to us, they seem cold. They only seem cold because we do not understand God. We do not love God because we do not keep the Commandments. To wlh, I would have to say I Samuel 15:2-3, and all other Biblical records of ancient Israel, are examples of what NOT to do, not what is right to God.

Yes, I do believe there is one god, or force...only one, and that one transcends any book......

Soon as person starts putting human traits on god, or what I would refer to god like pettiness, jealousy, anger...you no longer have a transcendent god.....you have a god made in mans image...

Originally posted by debbiejo
You have to separate the OT Jewish stories from the NT

You cannot separate them, what happened in the OT to the Israelites leads into the reason why they rejected Jesus in the NT, and also why they hunted down and killed most of the apostles.

Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the world...and Much of his teachings were twisted along with Pauls to make it seem to fit, though anyone can do that with a book.......Much of the were written after they happened...And the prophecies that are mentioned in Daniel and are thought of for today are not so, and Matt. was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD...

Originally posted by debbiejo
You have to separate the OT Jewish stories from the NT half gnostic and Mithra influenced writings...Remember there are many writings that weren't included...Jesus was from everything ever written from him was an Essene, which is a part of a gnostic sect, and Paul being influenced by Mithra had a big influence on writings at that time, I believe he was also part of some gnostic sect also, but was taken out of context by the church, and pasted together...No one seems to want to delve into other texts which James the brother of Jesus wrote, but he certainly was Essene, as was Jesus' mother and grandmother, John the baptist among others..

Yes, I do believe there is one god, or force...only one, and that one transcends any book......

Soon as person starts putting human traits on god, or what I would refer to god like pettiness, jealousy, anger...you no longer have a transcendent god.....you have a god made in mans image...

debbiejo, now you are arguing from the point of the credibility of the Bible. You are now determining not what the Bible says, but if what it says is true. I can tell you that the Bible does not contradict itself, but if you do not believe that the Bible is the word of God, then you would not be able to see how everything is connected.

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little" Isaiah 28:10

Jesus Himself said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:40

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" Luke 13:34

It is like a jigsaw puzzle: parts from the OT, and yes, parts from the NT, connect. The scriptures interpret themselves, the mistake is when we take a scripture or two and interpret it ourselves. There are scriptures that answer other scriptures or elaborate on them.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the world...and Much of his teachings were twisted along with Pauls to make it seem to fit, though anyone can do that with a book.......Much of the were written after they happened...And the prophecies that are mentioned in Daniel and are thought of for today are not so, and Matt. was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD...

Read my post above this one.

Originally posted by KPrince
debbiejo, now you are arguing from the point of the credibility of the Bible. You are now determining not what the Bible says, but if what it says is true. I can tell you that the Bible does not contradict itself, but if you do not believe that the Bible is the word of God, then you would not be able to see how everything is connected.

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little" Isaiah 28:10

Jesus Himself said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:40

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" Luke 13:34

It is like a jigsaw puzzle: parts from the OT, and yes, parts from the NT, connect. The scriptures interpret themselves, the mistake is when we take a scripture or two and interpret it ourselves. There are scriptures that answer other scriptures or elaborate on them.

If I believe the world is flat, you can never convince me that it is round. Because to understand that the world is flat is unique to those who believe that the world is flat. If you think the world is round, then you can not understand that it is flat. because god has made you see it round.

That is the logic you are using and it is flawed.

Yeah, they were made to fit, and how about the 100 plus writings that weren't included?.....They can fit also, but be interpreted another way...

And yes there are contradictions...

Which one of these is true:

Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

There are many many contradictions....you've only been led to believe there are none........so, tell me which is correct on the above verses.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If I believe the world is flat, you can never convince me that it is round. Because to understand that the world is flat is unique to those who believe that the world is flat. If you think the world is round, then you can not understand that it is flat. because god has made you see it round.

That is the logic you are using and it is flawed.

Am I? I am merely stating that the Bible is true, debbiejo is stating that it is false. The poster of this thread referred to I Samuel 15:2-3 within the context of the Bible. He asked for the opinion. I gave my belief. When debbiejo said that the OT and NT do not connect, I gave evidence to say otherwise. She stated the connections to Mithra and other gods, connections provided by outside references to the Bible. She did not show where there was contradiction in the Bible, but she argued the validity of the Bible. I addressed her argument with that in mind.

Originally posted by KPrince
Am I? I am merely stating that the Bible is true, debbiejo is stating that it is false. The poster of this thread referred to I Samuel 15:2-3 within the context of the Bible. He asked for the opinion. I gave my belief. When debbiejo said that the OT and NT do not connect, I gave evidence to say otherwise. She stated the connections to Mithra and other gods, connections provided by outside references to the Bible. She did not show where there was contradiction in the Bible, but she argued the validity of the Bible. I addressed her argument with that in mind.

I know, and I don’t mean any offence. It is a big button issue for me, when I see people use the argument that the bible is true only to those selected by god. That is elitism, even though you only hinted at it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yeah, they were made to fit, and how about the 100 plus writings that weren't included?.....They can fit also, but be interpreted another way...

And yes there are contradictions...

Which one of these is true:

Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

You took John 5:31 by itself, read before and after: "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth." John 5:30-33

John 8:14, again read before and after it "The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.' John 8:14

Keep in mind John 5:30-33 which validates the witness of Jesus through John, it is after this that Jesus now addresses the Pharisees.

"I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." John 8:18

When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

"And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priest answered, We have no king but Caesar." John 19:14-15

"Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:45-46

"And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour" Luke 23:44

"And it was the third hour, and they crucified him" Mark 15:25
"And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Mark 15:33-34

This may be the possible mistranslation of John, but I will look into it debbiejo. It will take some time though. Three apostles speak about Christ being crucified before and up to the sixth hour, while John speaks about the sixth hour seemingly as taking place just before the crucifixion. Again, I will look into it. 😉

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

There is no contradiction here. The days (especially the Sabbath) were measured from sunset to sunset, not morning to night. All three scriptures say the same thing, and each elaborates on the other.

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

There is no contradiction here either. Two by Two refers to the males and females of each species of animal. The seven is the seven pairs of male and female.

There are many many contradictions....you've only been led to believe there are none........so, tell me which is correct on the above verses.

As I said before, the scriptures interpret themselves. As for John 19:14-15, you may be right about this one--it may be a mistranslation due to the fact that the other three apostles said that the crucifixion took place before the sixth hour--or it may not be, I'll have to look into it.