Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
This whole public display is a non-issue. It's all a face-saving public ploy that need not be paid any attention.
always the skeptic 😛
i would agree, but given cheney's appeal...IN PERSON no less, i must disagree.
they were entirely outnumbered by dems and reps alike. no, this is just good ol' fashion defeat ✅
The US has used torture for decades. All that's new is the openness about it
'It was the "Mission Accomplished" of George Bush's second term, and an announcement of that magnitude called for a suitably dramatic location. But what was the right backdrop for the infamous "We do not torture" declaration? With characteristic audacity, the Bush team settled on downtown Panama City.
It was certainly bold. An hour and a half's drive from where Bush stood, the US military ran the notorious School of the Americas from 1946 to 1984, a sinister educational institution that, if it had a motto, might have been "We do torture". It is here in Panama, and later at the school's new location in Fort Benning, Georgia, where the roots of the current torture scandals can be found.'
Originally posted by Imagawa666
I do not condone torture. But in the worst case scenario, lets say imminanet threat of WMD etc then i would accept its use, but only in extrem cricumstances.
thats a slippery slope.
just because you see the line at one place, its impossible to set that line into law. thus innocent civilians being kidnapped and brutalised based on pure speculation and poor intelligence.
Originally posted by PVS
always the skeptic 😛i would agree, but given cheney's appeal...IN PERSON no less, i must disagree.
they were entirely outnumbered by dems and reps alike. no, this is just good ol' fashion defeat ✅
Skeptic perhaps. But, it all seems like a really big non-issue. First off, the torture won't stop, it'll just take place behind even more closed doors. But, don't you think it's a bit late in the game to be discussing the rules for torturing another human being? It's almost the year 2006 and a civilized, first world country is debating the merrits of torture?
The German guy who claimed he was tortured after being returned by the CIA because of suspicion to be some terrorist even said that if he would have been killed during interrogation that people would have never found out.
Maybe suspects have actually dissapeared for forever and we will never know about this violation of human rights!
Either way; interrogation to whether one really is guilty has always been too extreme in nearly every country.
They should really cut some slack on suspects even with a threat of terrorism.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It's almost the year 2006 and a civilized, first world country is debating the merrits of torture?
thats the part i've found very disturbing.
i agree that torture will always be practiced. all it takes is common sense.
but for a while it seemed that we would actually see publically approved federal torture. well i dont know about you, but im slightly relieved that we didnt jump off that cliff.
but i agree, nothing positive can be found in this...but rather the lack of a catastophy replaced with the same old tragedy.
Originally posted by PVS
but i agree, nothing positive can be found in this...but rather the lack of a catastophy replaced with the same old tragedy.
That's the way the Bush camp runs. Whip everyone into a frenzy over an issue and then give the public what it had at teh beginning of the game to make them feel like you've given them anything. It all seems like a distraction game, so they can stick their hands in teh cookie jar.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's the way the Bush camp runs. Whip everyone into a frenzy over an issue and then give the public what it had at teh beginning of the game to make them feel like you've given them anything. It all seems like a distraction game, so they can stick their hands in teh cookie jar.
i strongly disagree that it was structured to be this way by the administration.
it is what is, i wont argue that. but ill bet you any amount of money that cheney is cussing, spitting, kicking shit around his office, and throwing an allout tantrum as we speak.
well, i agree that in the end, we have the same thing we had before,
but now bush is seen in a semi-positive light (not by me) and he deserves no credit at all. really, he lied about his administrations policy on torture by denying it outright while his second in command routinely contradicted him IN PUBLIC.
bottom line: this poor country is f***ed.
Originally posted by PVS
well, i agree that in the end, we have the same thing we had before,
but now bush is seen in a semi-positive light (not by me) and he deserves no credit at all. really, he lied about his administrations policy on torture by denying it outright while his second in command routinely contradicted him IN PUBLIC.bottom line: this poor country is f***ed.
The country is ****ed. I said a long time ago that now that Bush has been elected to his second term, public opinion is no longer a priority. So, as with most presidencies, they do this give-and-take dance for the American public. It's this back and forth routine that keeps the public feeling safe; not just on this issue, but on any issue. Everyone gets nervous about loosing rights and gaining rights, that the end result is a feeling of being grateful just to have what they can get. And what they can get is what they already have to begin with.