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Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you are of the belief that great bands exist to pump life into the industry as opposed to existing WITH the industry, then I don't know if someone of your point of view will ever believe that great bands can last.

-AC

must you forsake my point just to take yet another pompous contradictory stance?

i never said great bands cant last. i just imply that they cant last forever. eventually they just become old and their shows are more of a novelty, a trip down memory lane for old timers. without NEW (the point AC, pay attention) NEW BLOOD, the industry is doomed. there must be newcomers who will be the next "great bands" and so far there really isnt....

Originally posted by PVS
must you forsake my point just to take yet another pompous contradictory stance?

i never said great bands cant last. i just imply that they cant last forever. eventually they just become old and their shows are more of a novelty, a trip down memory lane for old timers. without NEW (the point AC, pay attention) NEW BLOOD, the industry is doomed. there must be newcomers who will be the next "great bands" and so far there really isnt....

This is also true imo! 😕

"If you are of the belief that great bands exist to pump life into the industry as opposed to existing WITH the industry, then I don't know if someone of your point of view will ever believe that great bands can last."

The quote, PVS. Pay attention.

There are bands around today who didn't "come out" in the early 90's who are great. The Strokes, The White Stripes, Mastodon, Muse, MSI, The Dillinger Escape Plan, many of Patton's other projects, The Datsuns, The Darkness, The Mars Volta etc.

Give or take a band break-up or what not, they're gonna be around for a while. Whether you like them or not is not up to me. I know that I love bands I believe to make great music and bands who will be around for a while yet. So I don't really have anything to worry about, but sucks for you.

-AC

well i hope you're right then.

but to address the countered point: yes. great bands exist to keep life in the industry. without thos bands who are offered artistic freedom, there is no great music. and by 'great' i mean original and posessing a soul. doesnt mean i have to think they sound great. just that they are proven to be one of the greats by the loyalty (not temporary hype) of their fan base.

without said bands, who's going to give a shit enough to spend their hard earned cash?

Well to an extent you're right. There would be no one to distribute said music.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't exist.

My Chemical Romance fans might be loyal. Shit band though. Loyal fans don't equate to greatness. Though I am sure that you meant talented. In which case I agree. I don't particularly care for Maiden, I like em, but not massively. I do respect what they've done though. They're honest to music.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well to an extent you're right. There would be no one to distribute said music.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't exist.

My Chemical Romance fans might be loyal. Shit band though. Loyal fans don't equate to greatness. Though I am sure that you meant talented. In which case I agree. I don't particularly care for Maiden, I like em, but not massively. I do respect what they've done though. They're honest to music.

-AC

no, i dont mean talent. talent is subjective.
there are extremely talented musicians who cant write a riff
for shit, but can play any cover song spot on, and there are
creative geniuses who are mediocre in regards to playing.

a loyal fanbase however is proof that many see talent in a musician(s).
imho thats what makes them a 'great band' in an objective sense, in that
they touch many people without the aid of commercialism. a bunch of
people listen to them and say "damn i really like this shit" as opposed to
"ehh...after being forced to listen to this for the 600th time...its starting to grow on me."

Originally posted by PVS
no, i dont mean talent. talent is subjective.
there are extremely talented musicians who cant write a riff
for shit, but can play any cover song spot on, and there are
creative geniuses who are mediocre in regards to playing.

Kareoke with a good voice is still kareoke. Talent isn't subjective, music made is subjective. I can't convince someone that Tool make great music, but when it comes down to talented bands, even people who hate Tool's music often put them on the list. So no, talent isn't subjective. Preference is.

Originally posted by PVS
a loyal fanbase however is proof that many see talent in a musician(s).

Yeah but people saw "talent" in the Spice Girls. So that doesn't really mean anything. People can see "talent" in whoever they want. Whether it's actually there is a different matter. There are some musicians who produce music I think is complete shit, but I'd never deny their talent on an instrument eg: Malmsteen.

Originally posted by PVS
imho thats what makes them a 'great band' in an objective sense, in that
they touch many people without the aid of commercialism. a bunch of
people listen to them and say "damn i really like this shit" as opposed to
"ehh...after being forced to listen to this for the 600th time...its starting to grow on me."

Well not all great music is instant. Fan base doesn't equate to the band or artist being great. I'm sure Britney's fans could seem like an army compared to that of one of the smaller great bands.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah but people saw "talent" in the Spice Girls. So that doesn't really mean anything. People can see "talent" in whoever they want. Whether it's actually there is a different matter. There are some musicians who produce music I think is complete shit, but I'd never deny their talent on an instrument eg: Malmsteen.

i drew a distinction between loyal following and hype, but ill explain further.
its easy to tell the difference. pure hype lasts for but a few months and then dies. doesnt decrease or dwindle, but just flatout dies. thus the summer of spice girls and the following winter of "who the f*** are the spice girls?"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Well not all great music is instant. Fan base doesn't equate to the band or artist being great. I'm sure Britney's fans could seem like an army compared to that of one of the smaller great bands.

-AC

ahh but barney's fanbase is collected through commercialism. thus he is hype, and thus the way kids get sick of him very quickly 🙂 however, his fanbase is always replenished, thus the purple bastard lives on.

That can be said for many shit "artists" though. It doesn't make them talented.

Fans don't dictate whether a band or artist is talented or not. Robbie Williams could be around for about 5 years. The fact that the man is a complete, talentless mug is undeniable. He just has a lot of stupid people who like him. Avril Lavigne could go platinum every year, it doesn't mean she's great. It means millions are stupid.

-AC

Honestly, I don't see fans of teenybopper MTV garbage as being loyal, because you know they'll jump ship once they're told that what they're fans of is no longer cool and something else is. They are loyal so long as they're told to be.

Or as long as the person/group they like continues to dress the way they like them to.

The amount of people that I heard saying they didn't like Jack White anymore because he had a moustache was ridiculous.

-AC

It IS ridiculous. Like all the 13 year olds that are in love with Green Day because they wear tons of eyeliner right now. Or the Simple Plan fans that like them simply because they think they're cute. It's stupid. Like a band for their music, not their image.

Nirvana song "smells like teen spirt" is waaaaaay overrated.

Its a good song but nowhere near the best.

Originally posted by Lana
It IS ridiculous. Like all the 13 year olds that are in love with Green Day because they wear tons of eyeliner right now. Or the Simple Plan fans that like them simply because they think they're cute. It's stupid. Like a band for their music, not their image.

and sopund like a crap version of the clash.

So hang on. PVS- what is the crux of your point?

I take it to be that while there is good music around, there are no- or less- good bands coming through, to the detriment of the industry.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
So hang on. PVS- what is the crux of your point?

I take it to be that while there is good music around, there are no- or less- good bands coming through, to the detriment of the industry.

im saying that the industry (handful of record labels) which is monopolising the task of deciding who will be famous and who wont is killing music as we know(knew) it. there was a time where a band simply generated a following, and after much hard work and touring and pouring their hearts out (years) they would earn a record deal.

now bands are either snatched up as young as possible, based on pretty looks and if we're lucky a shred of musical talent, or they are picked out from those who have managed to fight their way uphill, and are told "if you want the money, you'll play our way"

its killing music imho.

And mine - tear them down and rip them off, music for the sake of art and as a statement is what we need not Ashlee Simpson.

So basically Whirly, you're pissed that great music isn't everywhere? Haha, I'm not. Those who support Ashlee Simpson deserve Ashlee Simpson. Nothing more.

The mainstream and how shit it's become is of no concern to me. Yes, it's horrible but it doesn't bother me. I have my music and will continue to.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So basically Whirly, you're pissed that great music isn't everywhere? Haha, I'm not. Those who support Ashlee Simpson deserve Ashlee Simpson. Nothing more.

The mainstream and how shit it's become is of no concern to me. Yes, it's horrible but it doesn't bother me. I have my music and will continue to.

-AC

No I'm also pissed at the profits companies make off a bit of plastic that costs 40p to make we are talking a 1000% profit thats outrageous.

Although to be fair, the value doesn't arise from the base materials of the CD.