Originally posted by Endless Mike
What criteria are you using to define "faster"? Your own personal interpretation based on art style? Because you know that shit won't fly.
It's simple. Show me someone surpassing what he did. He hit 12 men nigh instantly and was on the other side of the room before the attack was even done. He had to go different angles to perform this, do moves, grab them and throw them, take there weapons from them hitting them upside the head with it, grabbing one guy head and ramming it to a car, etc, etc...he did this before they even had the chance to budge...basically less than a second and did it at blinding speed.
Let's see you match it and you can use calculations if you want.
Originally posted by carver9
It's simple. Show me someone surpassing what he did. He hit 12 men nigh instantly
"nigh instantly" uh-huh. How fast is that exactly? Without a number that means nothing.
and was on the other side of the room before the attack was even done.
Again, how long did the attacks take? When did they start, when did they end, what? You have given no criteria for this.
He had to go different angles to perform this, do moves, grab them and throw them, take there weapons from them hitting them upside the head with it, grabbing one guy head and ramming it to a car, etc, etc...he did this before they even had the chance to budge...basically less than a second and did it at blinding speed.
Quantify that shit or it means nothing. It's obviously faster than base human, but how much faster? Can you prove it even reaches the speed of sound? Or even 1/10th the speed of sound?
Let's see you match it and you can use calculations if you want.
Calculations are only meaningful if they exist for both sides so the numbers can be compared.
There were a dozen or so men.
let's say it took half a second.
that's nowhere near what pietro is capable of.
roughly 2000 foot steps in a mile for an average person. pietro crossed 347 miles in 3.7 seconds, so 94 miles a second.
that's 188,000 footsteps a second.
obviously, he can move his arms at a comparable rate to his legs.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
"nigh instantly" uh-huh. How fast is that exactly? Without a number that means nothing.Again, how long did the attacks take? When did they start, when did they end, what? You have given no criteria for this.
Quantify that shit or it means nothing. It's obviously faster than base human, but how much faster? Can you prove it even reaches the speed of sound? Or even 1/10th the speed of sound?
Calculations are only meaningful if they exist for both sides so the numbers can be compared.
So do you have any scans?
You know what, you want to see calcs? Then here are some. From the very scan in question:
The height of the man is 153 pixels. He looks kind of short, but just to be generous let's give him the average height of an adult Japanese male, 1.707 meters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world)
The distance he traveled in 673 pixels - which makes it about 7.5 meters.
Now the next part is tricky - the ideal thing to do would be to use the acceleration due to gravity and the fact that some of those guys are still in the air to determine how much time has passed. Problem is, they were all thrown off to the sides of his path, putting them closer or farther away from the viewer, which makes measuring both their height above the ground troublesome as well as making it hard to tell how high they were launched and with how much force, which would all change the numbers. So instead I'll do something interesting. Here is a (confirmed to be real) video of a man being thrown in the air from a car accident:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/throwncar.asp
The distance and height are similar. As you can see, he first is sent airborne at about halfway through 5 seconds, and lands at about 6 seconds. So we can say the old guy accomplished all of this in about 1.5 seconds. This gives him a movement speed of 5 meters per second. Yeah, not that impressive... We might bump it up to as high as twice that if he moved to the side and back slightly to hit the enemies - most of them however are within arm's reach of the straight line path he took.
Now to determine his attacking speed. There are 12 enemies in the scan. 8 of them appear to have been thrown. To pick up and throw some guy, let's say he has to move one of his arms 1 meter to grab him, and a further 1 meter to throw him.
He seems to have ignored or bypassed that crouching guy closest to him.
One guy was slammed down to his knees, with a baseball bat over him. Seems reasonable to assume he took the bat from one of the guys and hit him with it. To be generous, let's say that's 3 meters of arm movement.
Another guy was slammed face-first into the ground. Seems it would take another 2 meters of arm movement (grab him and then slam him). The guy slammed into the car hood seems similar. Let's add another two meters at the end for him to bring his arms back into the position behind him.
This comes to a total of 25 meters of arm movement/attack speed. Divide that in half, since obviously the guy has 2 arms and can use both of them at the same time. 12.5 meters in 1.5 seconds, or 8.333etc meters per second attack speed.
Just in case you didn't know, the speed of sound is 340 meters per second. So yeah.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You know what, you want to see calcs? Then here are some. From the very scan in question:The height of the man is 153 pixels. He looks kind of short, but just to be generous let's give him the average height of an adult Japanese male, 1.707 meters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world)
The distance he traveled in 673 pixels - which makes it about 7.5 meters.
Now the next part is tricky - the ideal thing to do would be to use the acceleration due to gravity and the fact that some of those guys are still in the air to determine how much time has passed. Problem is, they were all thrown off to the sides of his path, putting them closer or farther away from the viewer, which makes measuring both their height above the ground troublesome as well as making it hard to tell how high they were launched and with how much force, which would all change the numbers. So instead I'll do something interesting. Here is a (confirmed to be real) video of a man being thrown in the air from a car accident:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/throwncar.asp
The distance and height are similar. As you can see, he first is sent airborne at about halfway through 5 seconds, and lands at about 6 seconds. So we can say the old guy accomplished all of this in about 1.5 seconds. This gives him a movement speed of 5 meters per second. Yeah, not that impressive... We might bump it up to as high as twice that if he moved to the side and back slightly to hit the enemies - most of them however are within arm's reach of the straight line path he took.
Now to determine his attacking speed. There are 12 enemies in the scan. 8 of them appear to have been thrown. To pick up and throw some guy, let's say he has to move one of his arms 1 meter to grab him, and a further 1 meter to throw him.
He seems to have ignored or bypassed that crouching guy closest to him.
One guy was slammed down to his knees, with a baseball bat over him. Seems reasonable to assume he took the bat from one of the guys and hit him with it. To be generous, let's say that's 3 meters of arm movement.
Another guy was slammed face-first into the ground. Seems it would take another 2 meters of arm movement (grab him and then slam him). The guy slammed into the car hood seems similar. Let's add another two meters at the end for him to bring his arms back into the position behind him.
This comes to a total of 25 meters of arm movement/attack speed. Divide that in half, since obviously the guy has 2 arms and can use both of them at the same time. 12.5 meters in 1.5 seconds, or 8.333etc meters per second attack speed.
Just in case you didn't know, the speed of sound is 340 meters per second. So yeah.
😕 Mike...just put up a scan please.
Since you were talking about Quicksilver, here he is (Ultimate version, not sure if you care though - IIRC 616 recently got a powerup which makes him even faster anyway):
http://imageshack.us/f/111/pietrowoobie3gg2nm2.jpg/
Too lazy to do pixel scaling again, so let's just eyeball it, in the second panel the shooter is 5 or 6 body lengths away from where Pietro catches the bullet, so let's say 5 meters?
Now even if the bullet was traveling only at the speed of sound (and most bullets are faster than that, for example the muzzle velocity of an average Glock is around 375 m/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock) We see him running and punching the shooter in the face, then running back and catching the bullet. He does a circle while the bullet goes in a straight line, so if the distance is 5 meters, then he ran about (pi/2)*5 or around 7.6 meters in the same amount of time, meaning his running speed there was 516.8 m/s (assuming only sound speed for the bullet). He also had to reach out his hand to catch the bullet, making his hand movement/combat speed AT THE VERY MINIMUM 68 meters/second.
So even using the most generous calcs for the old guy and the most conservative for this feat of Pietro, the latter is over 8 times as fast in combat/attack speed, and over 50 time as fast in movement speed.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Since you were talking about Quicksilver, here he is (Ultimate version, not sure if you care though - IIRC 616 recently got a powerup which makes him even faster anyway):http://imageshack.us/f/111/pietrowoobie3gg2nm2.jpg/
Too lazy to do pixel scaling again, so let's just eyeball it, in the second panel the shooter is 5 or 6 body lengths away from where Pietro catches the bullet, so let's say 5 meters?
Now even if the bullet was traveling only at the speed of sound (and most bullets are faster than that, for example the muzzle velocity of an average Glock is around 375 m/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock) We see him running and punching the shooter in the face, then running back and catching the bullet. He does a circle while the bullet goes in a straight line, so if the distance is 5 meters, then he ran about (pi/2)*5 or around 7.6 meters in the same amount of time, meaning his running speed there was 516.8 m/s (assuming only sound speed for the bullet). He also had to reach out his hand to catch the bullet, making his hand movement/combat speed AT THE VERY MINIMUM 68 meters/second.
So even using the most generous calcs for the old guy and the most conservative for this feat of Pietro, the latter is over 8 times as fast in combat/attack speed, and over 50 time as fast in movement speed.
So how fast is this then Mike?
Originally posted by CosmicComet
We can have no idea.As we have no clue at exactly what time Goku takes off for the glasses.
For all we know, he might have gotten them just as Tien is saying 'flare'. Which is possible, Goku is faster than sound by then.
We have a clue since Tien was looking at him before the attack and Tien during that time was fast enough to track Goku. Goku took off when the attack went off...he basically outpaced the attack.
Look at the scan while the attack is going off and you'll see that Tien eyes was on Goku the entire time.
Originally posted by carver9
We have a clue since Tien was looking at him before the attack and Tien during that time was fast enough to track Goku. Goku took off when the attack went off...he basically outpaced the attack.Look at the scan while the attack is going off and you'll see that Tien eyes was on Goku the entire time.
Not quite.
Even within that fight, Tien had trouble tracking Goku's speed at times.
In that same fight, when Tien sprouted multiple arms, Goku wasn't able to do it, but he decided to play around and he moved his arms around so fast that it looked like he had 6 or 8 (can't remember which) arms.
If Tien's perception speed was so up to par with Goku's, it wouldn't have looked like Goku had multiple arms to him.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Not quite.Even within that fight, Tien had trouble tracking Goku's speed at times.
In that same fight, when Tien sprouted multiple arms, Goku wasn't able to do it, but he decided to play around and he moved his arms around so fast that it looked like he had 6 or 8 (can't remember which) arms.
If Tien's perception speed was so up to par with Goku's, it wouldn't have looked like Goku had multiple arms to him.
I agree, Goku was faster but wasn't so fast that Tien wouldn't have been able able to see him running across a ring, snatch Master Roshi Glasses, put them on and then run back to the middle of the ring. He have to had done this while the attack was going on because again, Tien was looking right at him before the attack went off.
Running across a small ring and getting glasses off some guy's face, who is right in the front row, isn't something that I would consider to be any more impressive than being so casually fast that it looks like you have multiple physical arms to the other guy.
Basically, those were all after images.
And Goku may have left a full body after image of himself while getting the glasses, so tien may not have known any better.
The point is, the scene is unquantifiable.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Running across a small ring and getting glasses off some guy's face, who is right in the front row, isn't something that I would consider to be any more impressive than being so casually fast that it looks like you have multiple physical arms to the other guy.Basically, those were all after images.
And Goku may have left a full body after image of himself while getting the glasses, so tien may not have known any better.
The point is, the scene is unquantifiable.
Where did you get the idea that the ring was small? That ring is far from being small.
How is creating after images faster than someone running faster than solar energy.?
Where did you get the idea that Tien couldn't see his arms as nothing but afterimages.?
What do you think about this Cosmic?
http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/303411-fat_super.jpg.html?o=11&newest=1
