Character Ownage

Originally posted by JayDaDon
^what book is that from?

Its from "Spider-Man and The Secret Wars" (2010) which retold a lot of bits from Secret Wars naturally. Whether its a retcon or an alternate take or non-continuity is not 100% clear to me at this point. I think it was meant to be "canon-ish" but i'm not sure anymore. Has bits like the heroes under the mountain, their assault on Galactus etc. Was pretty good IMO.

Also theres definitely a difference between the Savage Hulk and WWH. Not sure what tats about. But it was the Banner Hulk in Secret Wars.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
I agree with this.

I think it comes down to a couple of things. In the old days i think Marvel were a lot more reluctant to have a character like Thor or Hulk "embarrassed" and there was a taboo of sorts against showing that one might be clearly stronger than the other. Nowadays its clear from what Brevoort says that as long as its nothing too outrageous then the writer has a relatively free hand and pandering to the fans is not a big concern.

Another reason might be that back in the day most creators were genuinely undecided which of Thor or Hulk was the stronger whereas once things began to tip Hulks way (probably after Thor 385) this began to be reflected in the views of more and more creators until eventually most of them are both writing and reading stories that depict things a bit differently. Sort of a self reinforcing cycle.

The movies probably have played a part also. I think Marvel's approach to showing off a character while a movie is in production/release is not necessarily to give them mad respect by having them beat everyone but rather to showcase them as prominent in the MU. For Iron Man this meant making him the head of SHIELD and a giant *******. For Cap this also meant making him the head of SHIELD. For Thor they made him central to a couple of Thorcentric events and published a ton of Thor related minis. Obviously Hulk isn't really going to work as the head of SHIELD or as an international statesmen so his comics push involved him invading Earth and...beating everyone up. *shrug*

Lastly of course Pak has been on the title for most of the past 5 years, during which Hulks had a relatively high profile, and thats had a huge impact given how he sees the character.

Exactly...

Pak had a major part in a change of Hulks power level...the guy wrote him for years and I'm pretty sure writers was looking at his material. I think it will eventually die down but its pretty clear Hulk has grown in power.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Just wanted to add, not necessarily to do with what Carver9 was saying but today's Hulk is just all round more powerful than decades ago, and since his upgrade it seems to have had a knock on effect.

Let The Battle Begin is a good example, Savage Hulk has never trounced Thor like that before and yet it's a tale from the past when their tussles generally ended in a stalemates. Also when the Savage Hulk incarnation returned after WWH he was taking on dozens and dozens of Wendigos, classic Hulk could never do that and now with the Hulk smash Avengers series.

Also characters like Wendigo just tend to become watered down over time. They start out as big threats, then eventually become underwhelming because some writer thinks it's awesome to show them getting beaten, killed, whatever to establish some other character's cred - happened to Gladiator, Champion, Mindless Ones etc. They're never the same again afterwards.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
I agree with this.

I think it comes down to a couple of things. In the old days i think Marvel were a lot more reluctant to have a character like Thor or Hulk "embarrassed" and there was a taboo of sorts against showing that one might be clearly stronger than the other. Nowadays its clear from what Brevoort says that as long as its nothing too outrageous then the writer has a relatively free hand and pandering to the fans is not a big concern.

Another reason might be that back in the day most creators were genuinely undecided which of Thor or Hulk was the stronger whereas once things began to tip Hulks way (probably after Thor 385) this began to be reflected in the views of more and more creators until eventually most of them are both writing and reading stories that depict things a bit differently. Sort of a self reinforcing cycle.

The movies probably have played a part also. I think Marvel's approach to showing off a character while a movie is in production/release is not necessarily to give them mad respect by having them beat everyone but rather to showcase them as prominent in the MU. For Iron Man this meant making him the head of SHIELD and a giant *******. For Cap this also meant making him the head of SHIELD. For Thor they made him central to a couple of Thorcentric events and published a ton of Thor related minis. Obviously Hulk isn't really going to work as the head of SHIELD or as an international statesmen so his comics push involved him invading Earth and...beating everyone up. *shrug*

Lastly of course Pak has been on the title for most of the past 5 years, during which Hulks had a relatively high profile, and thats had a huge impact given how he sees the character.

On a side note seems as though there may be another Thor/Hulk throwdown in Avengers, purely going by these scans the outcome doesn't look positive for Thor:

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large_lightbox/hash/3f/00/3f00745d11722c6759d0499145ed830c.jpg (Cover)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=12617&pg=5

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/25936/Avengers%20Assemble%202.jpg

Originally posted by Bentley

That mini didn't seem like canon to me,
there is the time in which Spidey decks Galactus.

It recalls the events of SSI exacto,
except for who got the Hulk mad under the mountain,
originally it was Reed, it was changed to Spiderman.

Also, Spidey knocked Galactus out cause he had most of the Beyonder's power.

Basically, Doom wanted to test the power he was going to absorb from the Beyonder before he took it for himself.
He wanted to see how others would handle it.

So he snatched Wolverine and Spidey.

Right before he absorbed most of the Beyonder's power,
he let Wolvy and Spidey get it first.
Wolvy's adventure is skipped, but Spidey's is illustrated.

Spiderman ends up remaking all creation,
rewinding all time with a thought, on different occasions,
being Everywhere,
being Everyone,
being Everything.

Dr Doom, while in possession of Beyoder's power said
his power reached into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space.

-------------------------------------------

That was most of Beyonder's power at work, wow.

Cube beings have been boosted back to their respected levels.

We got a taste during the Post-retcon, Molecule Man and Beyonder fight,
where they warped reality within realities on a Trans-Multiversal scale.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Yeah it seems as though a bit of both, one loophole that doesn't almost retcon his past showings is that his power is dependent on his emotional distress which would explain his older incarnations having uber showings in the last few years.

On a side note seems as though there may be another Thor/Hulk throwdown in Avengers, purely going by these scans the outcome doesn't look positive for Thor:

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large_lightbox/hash/3f/00/3f00745d11722c6759d0499145ed830c.jpg (Cover)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=12617&pg=5

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/25936/Avengers%20Assemble%202.jpg

What did Thanos mean when he called Hulk "the strongest of Spirits but the weakest of minds"?

Originally posted by carver9
What did Thanos mean when he called Hulk "the strongest of Spirits but the weakest of minds"?

Originally posted by carver9
What did Thanos mean when he called Hulk "the strongest of Spirits but the weakest of minds"?

Originally posted by carver9
What did Thanos mean when he called Hulk "the strongest of Spirits but the weakest of minds"?

I think he was still talking about Earth.

Originally posted by Galan007
He meant that Hulk has a strong spirit, but a weak mind. IMO.

That's what I got from it as well. Good showing for Thanos imo since Emma and Xavier failed to control WWH.

Originally posted by carver9
That's what I got from it as well. Good showing for Thanos imo since Emma and Xavier failed to control WWH.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large_lightbox/hash/3f/00/3f00745d11722c6759d0499145ed830c.jpg (Cover)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=12617&pg=5

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/25936/Avengers%20Assemble%202.jpg

in one panel hulk has thor's hand in his grip, next panel thor's planking

Originally posted by Nietzschean
when the hell did xavier and emma attempt to control hulk? 😬

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkvsxmen10.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkvsxmen10.jpg

During WWH Xavier and Emma were canceling each other out keep each other from influencing one another.

I dont know why you keep focusing on WWH when everyone and their mother knows that comic series was full of PIS and is not a consistent portrayal of the Hulk before and after the series..

I guess from now on we should all start using upgraded version of the character when we discuss them instead of the norm.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
not once did I see them even try.
just for your info Onslaught alone with Xavier's power mind raped and controlled savage Hulk who was bannerless at the time.

During WWH Xavier and Emma were canceling each other out keep each other from influencing one another.

I dont lie why you keep focusing on WWH when everyone and their mother knows that comic series was full of PIS and is not a consistent portrayal of the Hulk before and after the series..

I guess from now on we should all start using upgraded version of the character when we discuss them instead of the norm.

First thing, Savage Hulk isn't WWH. In the scan you posted, Xavier couldn't control WWH.

Second thing, Emma clearly states her and Xavier failed, you thinking its PIS doeant take away from what happened.

3rd thing...its a good showing for Thanos. This proves that Thanos TP>>Emma and Xavier.

Onslaught controlling a weaker Hulk isn't helping your argument.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
not once did I see them even try.
just for your info Onslaught alone with Xavier's power mind raped and controlled savage Hulk who was bannerless at the time.

During WWH Xavier and Emma were canceling each other out keep each other from influencing one another.

I dont lie why you keep focusing on WWH when everyone and their mother knows that comic series was full of PIS and is not a consistent portrayal of the Hulk before and after the series..

I guess from now on we should all start using upgraded version of the character when we discuss them instead of the norm.

Originally posted by carver9
First thing, Savage Hulk isn't WWH. In the scan you posted, Xavier couldn't control WWH.

Second thing, Emma clearly states her and Xavier failed, you thinking its PIS doeant take away from what happened.

3rd thing...its a good showing for Thanos. This proves that Thanos TP>>Emma and Xavier.

Onslaught controlling a weaker Hulk isn't helping your argument.

Originally posted by Badabing
Both of you shut up, for real. 😐

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And this is Final_Arrow's(a comicivine mod) response to this thread on comicvine(http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic/5/comicvine-vs-kmc/563504/?page=13):

Well well. Looks like Mr M & Galan both got a shoutout over there. 😎

those guys actually use kmc respect threads to bolster their "superior" arguments over there. do they not see the issue with talking down to this site?

kmc should make the respect threads limited to posters with a thousand posts to their name, other than that you can't see them.

not trying to dick ride but all the rival sites say the same thing and are using kmc, too