Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Britney sells out stadiums, touts are at almost every gig selling outrageously priced tickets.What's your point? He was a faded nobody until they got him on DARE.
-AC
Not really they had the sold out tour long before Dare was released. He's hardly a faded nobody Black grape (who I did not like were big in the early nineties till legal problems) several TV documentary programmes have been made on him recently. The biopic movie 24 hour party people "the story of factory records", starring Steve Coogan, whilst a box office average hit in the UK, did well in Europe and on Video sales here. House music in the UK credits him as a pioneer. I agree he is a drug addled loony, that doesn't down play what he did, Step on still has regular radio airings as does Kinky Afro and Halleleujah.
They are doing another tour this year and talk of a new album if the legal problems ala Prince are sorted out. It's these legal issues surrounding a broken contract by Black Grape which have stopped him making music.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Not really they had the sold out tour long before Dare was released. He's hardly a faded nobody Black grape (who I did not like were big in the early nineties till legal problems) several TV documentary programmes have been made on him recently. The biopic movie 24 hour party people "the story of factory records", starring Steve Coogan, whilst a box office average hit in the UK, did well in Europe and on Video sales here. House music in the UK credits him as a pioneer. I agree he is a drug addled loony, that doesn't down play what he did, Step on still has regular radio airings as does Kinky Afro and Halleleujah.They are doing another tour this year and talk of a new album if the legal problems ala Prince are sorted out. It's these legal issues surrounding a broken contract by Black Grape which have stopped him making music.
Legal issues don't stop people working with music. It's never stopped Prince, Tool, Patton or anyone else like that. They don't need publicity to indulge their music.
Black Grape, to be fair, were worse. Not only that, but they were riding the coattails of The Happy Mondays. Plus, that was early 90's. He faded, that's undeniable. Documentaries have been made on him recently because his name is out there a lot as a result of Damon and Jamie.
You can sit there all day saying what he DID back in the day and how house music in the UK credits him highly (wow, huge accolade there), but it doesn't remove from the fact that he faded away into Manchester until this recent hype of DARE. Even then it's off the back of someone else. You can continue revelling in the past, but that is what it is. The past.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Legal issues don't stop people working with music. It's never stopped Prince, Tool, Patton or anyone else like that. They don't need publicity to indulge their music.Black Grape, to be fair, were worse. Not only that, but they were riding the coattails of The Happy Mondays. Plus, that was early 90's. He faded, that's undeniable. Documentaries have been made on him recently because his name is out there a lot as a result of Damon and Jamie.
You can sit there all day saying what he DID back in the day and how house music in the UK credits him highly (wow, huge accolade there), but it doesn't remove from the fact that he faded away into Manchester until this recent hype of DARE. Even then it's off the back of someone else. You can continue revelling in the past, but that is what it is. The past.
-AC
His sell out tour was sold out long before Dares release or anyone knew he was on the album. Black Grape was about 96 I think that they stopped making records. You don't like Dance nad House music? Thats you're choice some is very good. 24 hour party people is 2 or 3 years old, he has had several documentaries made on him in the last 5 years. When this happens with artists 10 years after it means they had an affect on the people making programmes when they were at University or early in their career. The UK Rock hall of fame show singled the Mondays out as the best act of the indie scene from the latter part of the nineties. Are they to your taste - obviously not, did they have impact at the time obviously yes, are they influential now, the fact Albarn wanted Ryder I would say in itself is a resounding yes.
You are quoting things that happened years ago, this only proves my point. Mid to late nineties and early nineties. It's just making him look worse.
Them influencing A man doesn't mean they're some influential whirlwind.
My point was that it wasn't until DARE that he got back to being a name in people's discussions. You can't say "In the last 5 years...in 1996", it just proves my point. He may have been doing bits and pieces but he hasn't been a major known name since the mid nineties. Now he is, because he is getting a lot of success from his Gorillaz appearance.
My point being that whether you like it or not, he did fade and The Happy Mondays were as VVD said, a zeitgeist.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are quoting things that happened years ago, this only proves my point. Mid to late nineties and early nineties. It's just making him look worse.Them influencing A man doesn't mean they're some influential whirlwind.
My point was that it wasn't until DARE that he got back to being a name in people's discussions. You can't say "In the last 5 years...in 1996", it just proves my point. He may have been doing bits and pieces but he hasn't been a major known name since the mid nineties. Now he is, because he is getting a lot of success from his Gorillaz appearance.
My point being that whether you like it or not, he did fade and The Happy Mondays were as VVD said, a zeitgeist.
-AC
You miss the point AC all bands have a zietgeist even the biggest and fade to a point. The fact that Bez won C Big Brother last year (not that I watched it) is another statement to the enduring appeal of the Mondays this was before Dare. The fact they had a sold out tour in the year before anyone knew Ryder was on Dare and Dare was released (thats all the year not years before). The fact 18 monthe before that 24 hour Party people was a success. All these things point to a recent enduring popularity. The best of the Happy Mondays came out in 2004 it was top ten in the UK Album charts, best of Albums from bands that broke up more than a decade earlier don't do much better than that (Nirvanas didn't).
Every band has a zeitgeist (hell U2 put out an album to embrace their own) the true greats have revivals in appeal, The Mondays have done this more than once, 😉 and are doing it again. Not to your taste perhaps but you don't like Dance, House or the Manchester scene and that doesn't make it less important. Punk died in the UK for about 20 years (trust me I was alive and saw it happen), then bands like Therapy started listening to some of the American eighties punk and did it better. Zeitgeists come and go, influence remains.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
You miss the point AC all bands have a zietgeist even the biggest and fade to a point. The fact that Bez won C Big Brother last year (not that I watched it) is another statement to the enduring appeal of the Mondays this was before Dare. The fact they had a sold out tour in the year before anyone knew Ryder was on Dare and Dare was released (thats all the year not years before). The fact 18 monthe before that 24 hour Party people was a success. All these things point to a recent enduring popularity. The best of the Happy Mondays came out in 2004 it was top ten in the UK Album charts, best of Albums from bands that broke up more than a decade earlier don't do much better than that (Nirvanas didn't).
Haha, you used Big Brother as some kind of credible example. That's strike one for your credibility. Peter Andre won people over when he was on that stupid show, does that make him good? No. Bez can barely form a word. He's stupid and as untalented as they come.
Nirvana aren't as accessible as The Happy Mondays. They are better though, so chart position means nothing. If you're trying to say he's loved by many Big Brother watching idiots with laddish mentalities, fine. Not exactly an accolade.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Every band has a zeitgeist (hell U2 put out an album to embrace their own) the true greats have revivals in appeal, The Mondays have done this more than once, 😉 and are doing it again. Not to your taste perhaps but you don't like Dance, House or the Manchester scene and that doesn't make it less important. Punk died in the UK for about 20 years (trust me I was alive and saw it happen), then bands like Therapy started listening to some of the American eighties punk and did it better. Zeitgeists come and go, influence remains.
Yes. Who does the influence remain on? The people who were there most of all. You're missing the point.
Grunge etc, it died. Punk, it died. It's still considered great because it was more than a novelty. It was made by people with talent. The MUSIC sparked the scene. The scene didn't spark the music. The Happy Mondays are a band who existed/exist because of a scene, a scene long dead. The reason they got a bit of a revival was because of people like you (that's not a negative, though it may sound such) who can't let go of a past time. Not because they're making great music.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Haha, you used Big Brother as some kind of credible example. That's strike one for your credibility. Peter Andre won people over when he was on that stupid show, does that make him good? No. Bez can barely form a word. He's stupid and as untalented as they come.Nirvana aren't as accessible as The Happy Mondays. They are better though, so chart position means nothing. If you're trying to say he's loved by many Big Brother watching idiots with laddish mentalities, fine. Not exactly an accolade.
Yes. Who does the influence remain on? The people who were there most of all. You're missing the point.
Grunge etc, it died. Punk, it died. It's still considered great because it was more than a novelty. It was made by people with talent. The MUSIC sparked the scene. The scene didn't spark the music. The Happy Mondays are a band who existed/exist because of a scene, a scene long dead. The reason they got a bit of a revival was because of people like you (that's not a negative, though it may sound such) who can't let go of a past time. Not because they're making great music.
-AC
I think your arguing in a very one sided way because you don't like the type of music the Mondays made or the bands they influenced. As a result you deny the importance of both the Mondays and the Manchester movement (which was not completely laddish at all, remember 1990 NME labelled Spike Island the start of the second summer of love). Coldplay have admitted to a large influence from the Mondays particulrly in feel and use of samples. All bands exist because of a scene - You don't think Nirvana invented the Seattle sound do you, anymore than the Pistols invented punk. So Nirvanas revival is because they are good (you like them) the Mondays revival is because they are not good (I like them) I like Nirvana, I think they have dated far more than the Mondays though.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Uh No - I saw the Reunion on Good Friday supported by the Farm, at Brixton Academy, it was a sellout and tickets were going outside for 3 times the price. It was called 24 hour party people and sold out everywhere it played putting on a number of extra nights. 🙂
i saw the happy Mondays a few months back and it was awesome.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I saw then the first time for me 1989 at Nottingham Poly, just before I saw the Stone Roses at Nottingham Poly. Ryder was shit hot this year as well in my opinion exanda.
Well I have to say I was bare young in 1989, but I kinda grew up on the whole britpop/manchester scene...so its all good really 🙂
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I think your arguing in a very one sided way because you don't like the type of music the Mondays made or the bands they influenced. As a result you deny the importance of both the Mondays and the Manchester movement (which was not completely laddish at all, remember 1990 NME labelled Spike Island the start of the second summer of love). Coldplay have admitted to a large influence from the Mondays particulrly in feel and use of samples. All bands exist because of a scene - You don't think Nirvana invented the Seattle sound do you, anymore than the Pistols invented punk. So Nirvanas revival is because they are good (you like them) the Mondays revival is because they are not good (I like them) I like Nirvana, I think they have dated far more than the Mondays though.
Exactly. You don't think it's a coincidence that the band's they influence are mostly shit? Coldplay? We have them to thank for Coldplay?
I deny the importance because it hasn't nearly has as large an impact on music as you claim. The Happy Mondays are liked by some people. So what? It was nowhere near as revolutionary or worldwide changing as the Grunge moment etc. It was a novelty act, to deny THAT is ignorant and my previous example is proof. You couldn't go to NY in the early 90's and talk about the laddish years or the Manchester scene. Who'd know? Nobody. It was a novelty loved by those involved and it never really reached anyone outside of it enough to survive. Why? Because it's members lack talent. None of them are good at what they do. Nirvana were nowhere near the best Grunge band, but they were very good. They were talented musicians. Them being so revered didn't come from people just being there. If you listen to the music that was around before, then and after, you can see just how much they changed worldwide music along with the other, better Grunge bands. What did The Happy Mondays do? Influence a couple of people. Big deal. They did nothing for MUSIC. MUSIC hasn't changed because of them. Bands like Nine Black Alps are still trying to reproduce or imitate the sound of the Grunge era. Who is trying to make another type of sound akin to the one of The Happy Mondays?
To use your own point against you, Bez was on Big Brother. The man needed more publicity than anyone else. If Kurt Cobain was still around, he wouldn't be doing that.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Exactly. You don't think it's a coincidence that the band's they influence are mostly shit? Coldplay? We have them to thank for Coldplay?I deny the importance because it hasn't nearly has as large an impact on music as you claim. The Happy Mondays are liked by some people. So what? It was nowhere near as revolutionary or worldwide changing as the Grunge moment etc. It was a novelty act, to deny THAT is ignorant and my previous example is proof. You couldn't go to NY in the early 90's and talk about the laddish years or the Manchester scene. Who'd know? Nobody. It was a novelty loved by those involved and it never really reached anyone outside of it enough to survive. Why? Because it's members lack talent. None of them are good at what they do. Nirvana were nowhere near the best Grunge band, but they were very good. They were talented musicians. Them being so revered didn't come from people just being there. If you listen to the music that was around before, then and after, you can see just how much they changed worldwide music along with the other, better Grunge bands. What did The Happy Mondays do? Influence a couple of people. Big deal. They did nothing for MUSIC. MUSIC hasn't changed because of them. Bands like Nine Black Alps are still trying to reproduce or imitate the sound of the Grunge era. Who is trying to make another type of sound akin to the one of The Happy Mondays?
To use your own point against you, Bez was on Big Brother. The man needed more publicity than anyone else. If Kurt Cobain was still around, he wouldn't be doing that.
-AC
The Charlatans (spirit of Manny scene if half american), Sea Horses, Sonic Youth etc all influenced people greatly. The Stone Roses produced for many the best UK album since Revolver. Who makes a sound similair to the Mondays - I'll let this US review explain to you )laddish only as personalities not in the music)
Double Easy: The U.S. Singles Review
07/13/2005 6:24 AM, AMG
Oddly enough, a greatest-hits set from the Mondays surfaced in America first rather than the U.K., but whatever the reason for its existence, Double Easy is a nicely random treat. Arranged more or less in chronological order, with the exception of the killer one-two punch of "W.F.L. (Think About the Future)" and the club mix of "Hallelujah" at the end of the disc, Double Easy makes a good primer for the baggy era's notorious group. Though leaving out a variety of strong album cuts means that it's by default an incomplete collection (and probably a couple of Yes, Please cuts could have been dropped from the running order), enough good times are in the grooves to summon up instant party vibes. Shaun Ryder and company's genius was that, unlike any number of stereotypical indie Brit groups, they felt the funk -- if the likes of early Kool & the Gang and Funkadelic were the true gods, at the very least the Mondays were good disciples. Combine that with a healthy take on everything from Mark E. Smith's ramalama style to electro beats and Beatles references and more, and what Double Easy demonstrates best in the end is that Beck's own formula had already been established years before. "Wrote for Luck," "Lazyitis," the "MacColl" mix of "Hallelujah," the "Stuff It In" mix of "Step On," "Kinky Afro," and the 12" version of "Loose Fit" help make this a great starting point for new fans, but hardcore followers will appreciate some rarities beyond the remixes. "Tokoloshe Man" -- like "Step On" a John Kongos cover, in this case recorded for the Rubaiyat tribute album -- makes for an intense romp, a bit Madchester by numbers but with a fine slick speed to it. Meanwhile, the underrated groove of "Judge Fudge" makes its first debut on album after its stand-alone appearance in 1991, with what sounds like a Marlena Shaw sample adding a swooping, just paranoid enough atmosphere to the proceedings. ~ Ned Raggett, All Music Guide
You don't like dance music cool. They were big in the US 😉