Re: Batman a peak human doing metahuman feats?
Originally posted by Thor Man
Can somebody list him doing meta or superhuman things please?
I'm curious.
Find the 'Batman Respect' thread and you'll see Batman doing feats galore.
Feats that are definitely NOT 'peak human' but definitely meta/super-human level feats.
That thread is just insane, and basically makes one wonder about Brucey-boy.
A little theory I entertain is that if Bruce was in Marvel (where everyone is either a mutant, a walking science experiment, or something better) he would be along the lines of of Vargas.
Vargas was the dude who killed Psylocke (and almost killed Beast), and basically couldn't be stopped by mutants because he was supposed to be the 'true' evolution of Homo Sapiens.
He was the next level of evolution, and mutants were simply an offshoot .....a rough draft.
He was the true masterpiece.
Anyways, Bruce is definitely human, but some of the stuff (what the heck: MOST of the stuff) he does is definitely beyond human.
His knowledge is also so extensive, AND intensive, as to arouse suspicion.
It is one thing for someone to be a genius in math.
Or a combat master.
Or a skilled adept of strategy.
However it is another thing for a person to be a genius in math, sciences, magical lore, next-gen technology, forensics, botany, applied weaponry, an ace in aerial combat ....etc etc etc.
Or to be a master of 127 combat systems and styles.
Or able to come up with stratagems that take care of EVERY proabibility (eg in No Man's Land Batman told Superman that he had a perfect plan for saving Gotham, and he had 5 backup plans just in case, and for each of those 5 backup plans he had 5 OTHER plans ..each ....just in case). That is not 'normal.'
The Batman Respect thread more than illustrates that fact.
And anyways think of it ....what the goodness is a human doing in the JLA (where every other character seems able to tear the world apart, or at least half a continent).
And for that matter several members of the Bat family, from Nightwing to Robin to even Oracle (her affinity for knowledge and computers approaches a level that is also ...erm .... 'peak human'😉 are questionable.
And as for Batgirl (Cassandra) she is supposed to be 'peak human' as well, but I'd love to meet the human who through sheer training and will could dodge a salvo of bullets from point blank range, 'read' a person's intent like a book (I'd call that pre-cognition, but DC calls it 'body reading'😉, and snatch projectiles from the air with ease.
And in one of Batgirl's comics the CIA thought she had 2.6 times human strength and 4.2 times human speed.
LOL.
Yep ....'peak human.'
In my book that is super human.
Anyways ....just my thoughts and theories.
For more 'evidence' check out the Batman respect thread.
But let me just say that if Batman was 'real' and did the things he did in comics (and the whole comic world was real), then a very good argument could be made the Batman (and his 'family) are NOT human.
Or as 'human' as Krypto is a 'dog.'
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Excellent post spetznaz, and pretty much why I dislike batman as a character.
They are both 'super-men, with Bruce being more along the lines of 'Superman' than Superman himself. The best way to describe this would be that old German concept of the Ubermensch ....the overman or superman.
The perfect man.
Which is why I thought that if Bruce was in Marvel he would be like Vargas .....just amped up.
Anyways, this is the reason I love Batman. In terms of sheer richness of character there are not many who come close, and at the same time he can be totally one-dimensional to those who just look at the surface.
It just depends on perception.
Batman is more of a precept than a character.
So is Superman for that matter .....he is more of an ideology than a defined character.
Other characters, for example Wolverine and Quicksilver, and simply characters. Nothing more. No literally genius went into them.
However Batman, Superman, the Hulk, and even to some level Spiderman, all have certain ideological connotations behind them.
Basically they are archetypes, with Superman, Batman and the Hulk being the strongest archetypes that have attained mass popularity.
Anyways, Batman is THE man.
The question though is just how much 'human' is in the man?
Either way I think the Bruce Wayne/Batman character is perfect, and from a wide array of perspectives.
Originally posted by wolverine8888
[QUOTE=5603199]Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Depends on the viewer.I love Wolverine as character - but I don't think he is THAT unique. Anti-hero types like him have existed on comics before.
[/QUOyes but he was the first true anti-hero [/B]
Nah.
Namor was. 🙂
. Possessing the super strength and aquatic abilities of the Homo mermanus race, Namor was alternatively portrayed as a good-natured but short-fused superhero and hostile invader, seeking vengeance for wrongs misguided surface dwellers committed against his undersea kingdom. He was thus arguably the first comic book anti-hero.
Originally posted by wolverine8888
"Other characters, for example Wolverine and Quicksilver, and simply characters. Nothing more. No literally genius went into them."wolverines is far more then a 2 demensional guy. he has more shitt going on then any one u can;t say bat man is a mroe complex character thats just bullshit
Read my words carefully .....I know you are dyslexic, but that shouldn't affect your reading and/or comprehension.
I said Wolverine was simply a character. And that no profound ideological encapsulation went into them.
End of story.
I did not say he was 2-dimensional ....in fact in other places I have said that Logan is quite the character (and I adore him ...just that certain people tend to hy....erm ...anyways). However he is nowhere near the same level of complexity and intricacy of thought as the Hulk, or Superman, or Batman.
Now, just to digest this a bit for you. This doesn't mean that Logan doesn't have a rich history. He does. But it is not in the same philosophical vein as the three.
At the end of the day Wolverine is simply a character. A character that is many times well written, and many other times mass-marketed, but still a character. And a character that has an interesting back story.
However you will not see a discussion on Wolverine in a university's philosophy course.
Not by a long shot.
comprendez vous?
Definition of anti-hero:
Comic books commonly feature anti-heroes (also known as "dark heroes"😉 who are individuals fighting for good, but either have some tragic flaw (such as a tormented past), fighting for reasons that are not entirely altruistic (they may be after a villain due to a grudge or other selfish motivations, with little or no regard for typical "heroic" means), a character who is neither "good" nor "evil", but finds themselves fighting on the side of good due to circumstance, or a hero using questionable means to reach their goals. A good working definition of the anti-hero is a paradoxical character that is, within the context of a story, a hero but taken out of context could easily be seen as a criminal, an outlaw, or just simply unlikeable.
List of some comic book anti-heroes:
* Bizarro (DC Comics)
* Black Adam (DC Comics)
* Black Cat (Marvel Comics)
* Cable (Marvel Comics)
* Catwoman (DC Comics)
* Cerebus the Aardvark by Dave Sim (Aardvark-Vanaheim)
* The Creeper by Steve Ditko (DC Comics)
* Daredevil (Marvel Comics)
* Deadpool (Marvel)
* Dwight McCarthy from Sin City
* Elektra (Marvel Comics)
* Emma Frost (Marvel Comics)
* Foolkiller(Marvel Comics)
* Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics)
* Golgo 13 by Takao Saito
* The Goon (Dark Horse)
* Green Arrow (DC Comics)
* Guy Gardner (DC Comics)
* Harley Quinn from (DC Comics)
* Hellboy (Dark Horse)
* Hitman (DC Comics)
* The Incredible Hulk (Marvel Comics)
* John Constantine (Vertigo)
* John Difool (The Incal)
* Johnny the Homicidal Maniac by Jhonen Vasquez (Slave Labor Graphics)
* Juggernaut (Marvel Comics)
* Klarion the Witch Boy, (particularly in his 2005 miniseries) (DC Comics)
* Kraven the Hunter (Marvel Comics)
* Light Yagami (Death Note)
* Lady Death (Lady Death Comics) (Chaos! Comics, Crossgen, and Avatar Press)
* Lobo (DC Comics)
* Magneto (Marvel Comics)
* Marv from Sin City
* Metabarons (Humanoids Publishing)
* Monstergirl from Young Heroes in Love (DC Comics)
* Namor the Sub-Mariner (Marvel Comics)
* Nexus by Mike Baron and penciler Steve Rude
* The Punisher (Marvel Comics)
* Quinlan Vos from Star Wars (Dark Horse Comics)
* Rayek in Elfquest (Warp Graphics, later DC Comics)
* Rorschach in Watchmen (DC Comics)
* Sandman (Vertigo)
* Spawn (Image Comics)
* Spectre (DC Comics)
* The Thing (Marvel Comics)
* Vegeta and Piccolo from Dragon Ball Z (Bird Studio/Akira Toriyama)
* Venom (Marvel Comics)
* Wolverine (Marvel Comics)
Namor appeared 33 years before Wolverine was created...actually, nine years before Wolverine's creator was even born...thus, being the first anti-hero.
Wolverine might have been the first "badass" anti-hero.
And he (and Punisher) is probably what people think when hearing the word: anti-hero.
But Namor was the first.
Originally posted by wolverine8888
not realy man. in the back of my x-men book it talks about character and they said wolverine was liek the first true anti-hero
LOL.
From wikipedia (read the last sentence):
Namor the Sub-Mariner is a fictional character featured in Marvel Comics, and one of the oldest superhero characters. He was created by cartoonist Bill Everett in 1939.
Like DC Comics’ Aquaman, Namor is an undersea hero originating from the mythical kingdom of Atlantis. Namor is the son of a human sea captain and of a princess of Atlantis (although the Underwater kingdom was left unamed until the 1960s). Possessing the super strength and aquatic abilities of the Homo mermanus race, Namor was alternatively portrayed as a good-natured but short-fused superhero and hostile invader, seeking vengeance for wrongs misguided surface dwellers committed against his undersea kingdom. He was thus arguably the first comic book anti-hero.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Definition of anti-hero:Namor appeared 33 years before Wolverine was created...actually, nine years before Wolverine's creator was even born...thus, being the first anti-hero.
Wolverine might have been the first "badass" anti-hero.
And he (and Punisher) is probably what people think when hearing the word: anti-hero.
But Namor was the first.
That is true. However Wolverine8888 will never admit it when he is wrong.
Namor was the first anti-hero in Marvel ....easily.