Originally posted by Darth Traya
Ack, Traya seems fairly underestimated here.
Not at all. But her major power - the source of her strength - is derived from that instakill ability. Traya could conquer over perhaps all but DE Sidious and NJO Luke (depending who gets in the instakill in first), but without it - she's no match for everyone, Traya.
Sidious would kill her without that instakill, I think. So would Dooku. And Yoda. And Mace.
Originally posted by Escape81
Not at all. But her major power - the source of her strength - is derived from that instakill ability. Traya could conquer over perhaps all but DE Sidious and NJO Luke (depending who gets in the instakill in first), but without it - she's no match for everyone, Traya.Sidious would kill her without that instakill, I think. So would Dooku. And Yoda. And Mace.
the instakill technique means absolutely nothing. She still tossed Zez Kai around she tossed Vrook and the other masters around like it was nothing. She killed a dozen Sith Assassins who all eat the force to weaken their opponents like Nihilus in a second. In the cut content she easily took care of every single one of the Exile his friends without even standing up.
Kreia is far more then just an insta kill technique and she is more then a match for all those names you just mentioned. She is not a lightsaber god like Mace but her force powers heavily surpass him Instakill or not, and force powers alone especially when used to attack somebody can be more then enough to decide a battle.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sidious is the strongest Sith. Of all time. Stated fact in the EU. He pretty much every darkside and sith technique and the defenses.As it is, he could finish off Traya rather easily and Dooku as well. The man is described as an 'Event Horizon' in the Force
Lightsnake, he is described as such in the ROTS novel. Now, perhaps by the movies' standards, Sidious is the most powerful Sith. Indeed, none of the EU works here are canon - but this is still a section devoted to EU. Thus, people like Marka Ragnos and Revan exist and Exar Kun as well. And in some of these cases, they exhibit more power than Sidious.
I am including the EU and Sidious is the mightiest in the EU. Period. You do not know me here as I'm new, but I'm actively involved in other communities. Please do not try to educate me on the EU, I know huge amounts of it.
In the EU, Palpatine and Vader are described as the mightiest Sith of all time and in Dark Empire? A weaker Sidious devastates a REPUBLIC FLEET with his rage alone. There is nothing the others have done that is stronger than Sidious, nothing that can compare to him. In the sourcebooks? They say what I said about his power-the strongest of ALL TIME' directly.
And according to Mr. Kevin J Anderson, his Sith were not stronger than Sidious and Vader and the like. And according to Leland Chee, KOTOR is a 'legendary retelling' with quite a few things lost in translation. In response to complaints of continuity errors when it was added in the EU
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah. There were plenty of times when she could have used it, but didn't, so we need to believe that it is a limited power and she can use it only rarely.
Darth Tyranus only used Force choke once in the entire series. Should we conclude that he can only use it that one time? No. That's foolish.
For one, you don't know when else she's used it. There's a scene where the screen goes black on Malachor V and a bunch of Sith Assassins drop dead. It's possible she used it then. It's also possible that she used it other times too. To assume that she used it once and thus cannot use it often or again or to place made-up restrictions on it without proof is silly.
Two, obviously her regular Force powers are considerable.
Traya force pushed three jedi masters with amazing ease, and one of those she shoved again. Reasonably, Jedi who are aware of a Force push/pull threat can block it. Vrook didn't have a chance. He was slung back like a shot. Then he and the other two jedi masters were killed instantly using the same method of draining that Darth Nihilus uses, though I imagine his is far superior to hers. She also feigns death, senses happenings everywhere, predicts the future up to four thousand years in advance, has force sight, mastered force healing, was able to use force crush on people (As seen in the cut content.), could manipulate three lightsabers with relative ease.
Even without the force drain her powers are well beyond anything Bane or Sidious has demonstrated.
I think you're undercutting Darth Traya because you don't like the idea of her being quite as powerful as she really is in the series.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I am including the EU and Sidious is the mightiest in the EU. Period. You do not know me here as I'm new, but I'm actively involved in other communities. Please do not try to educate me on the EU, I know huge amounts of it.In the EU, Palpatine and Vader are described as the mightiest Sith of all time and in Dark Empire? A weaker Sidious devastates a REPUBLIC FLEET with his rage alone. There is nothing the others have done that is stronger than Sidious, nothing that can compare to him. In the sourcebooks? They say what I said about his power-the strongest of ALL TIME' directly.
And according to Mr. Kevin J Anderson, his Sith were not stronger than Sidious and Vader and the like. And according to Leland Chee, KOTOR is a 'legendary retelling' with quite a few things lost in translation. In response to complaints of continuity errors when it was added in the EU
Wow. Serious movie fanboyism here. You sir, need to stick to the PT and OT sections of the forum. And who the hell is Leland Chee, that we should give a damn?
God, THIS IS EU....and you have no room to talk about fanboyism.
Mr. Leland Chee is the man Lucasarts put in charge of The Holocron...in other words, he's the reigning authority on Star Wars lore.
What you guys need to do? Pick open a book, read a little.
DE Sidious is the same as actual Sidious...most powerful sith ever. Stated by the sourcebook. Stated by Marka Ragnos according to the ol' sourcebooks.
I'm afraid you guys....really don't trump the official word
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I am including the EU and Sidious is the mightiest in the EU. Period. You do not know me here as I'm new, but I'm actively involved in other communities. Please do not try to educate me on the EU, I know huge amounts of it.In the EU, Palpatine and Vader are described as the mightiest Sith of all time and in Dark Empire? A weaker Sidious devastates a REPUBLIC FLEET with his rage alone. There is nothing the others have done that is stronger than Sidious, nothing that can compare to him. In the sourcebooks? They say what I said about his power-the strongest of ALL TIME' directly.
And according to Mr. Kevin J Anderson, his Sith were not stronger than Sidious and Vader and the like. And according to Leland Chee, KOTOR is a 'legendary retelling' with quite a few things lost in translation. In response to complaints of continuity errors when it was added in the EU
There's no need for such a defensive attitude nor for the arrogance. You make good points, but your attitude is out of the question.
Originally posted by Darth Traya
DE Sidious is a completely different matter to ROTS Sidious. Traya would probably lose to DE Sidious, but not after either terminally wounding him or almost killing him.
There is no probably. He has done greater feats in this form, and has expressed far more powerful mastery of the Force.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
God, THIS IS EU....and you have no room to talk about fanboyism.Mr. Leland Chee is the man Lucasarts put in charge of The Holocron...in other words, he's the reigning authority on Star Wars lore.
What you guys need to do? Pick open a book, read a little.
DE Sidious is the same as actual Sidious...most powerful sith ever. Stated by the sourcebook. Stated by Marka Ragnos according to the ol' sourcebooks.
I'm afraid you guys....really don't trump the official word
You either provide a link with the information on it or shut the **** up. I've about had it with you playing mister badass here, like you're the only person who knows anything- which is of course incorrect.
Prove up or shut up.
Originally posted by Blind Guardian
You either provide a link with the information on it or shut the **** up. I've about had it with you playing mister badass here, like you're the only person who knows anything- which is of course incorrect.Prove up or shut up.
Err... I had a hard time believing him as well. But then again, I don't see any proof that the likes of Ragnos is greater than Kun, but people argue it.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I cannot provide a link as most of my information is from books and maganizes and interviews. The closest I have to links are long dead threads from The Force.net
However, you have provided no points. You have been nothing but rude and insulting and I request you tone it down
You know, I like how you've just suddenly decided that Yoda is the second best jedi of all time, and that he can pwn all.... and that Sidious is the mightiest Sith all time and can pwn all... and that Vader can compete with people who can move circles around him and can pwn all...
And this is the evidence you provide:
I cannot provide a link as most of my information is from books and maganizes and interviews. The closest I have to links are long dead threads from The Force.net
You do not cite which books, you do not cite which magazines...... just a vague "Oh, it's out there, you need to read cuz you know nothing" response to every time I question your posts. And I question them because the only times I've ever heard such claims was from deluded movie fanboys, which you strike me as. All you have are links to another forum. As if TheForce.net's popular concensus is worth more than a real source.
So I request that you put something on the table for once.
Escape and Pwned are pretty levelheaded people so from what I've seen who don't make grandiose statements and then just shirk on the whole "prove up" deal. You, however, cite TheForce.net (an unofficial fan site) and some random sourcebooks for role playing games and books you won't name. Why should I believe you?
Ask PWned and Cizal, since you're obviously not listening to anything I say. And grandiose statements such as 'Revan could take out Vader at his best?'
And TFN's a haven for officials in the SW business. Chee is a regular visitor, so are Jon Ostrander and quite a few others.
And sourcebooks not in continuity? Than I guess a lot of stuff they introduced isn't canon...I mean, they only provide detailed histories seperately from RPGs and the like....no, according to Steve Sansweet, they're in there