Darth Maul vs Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Lightsnake
IF by 'trained' you mean 'given basic instruction' then....
Weaker than Vader or no, he certainly got the better of him there. Vader was stronger than Kenobi and we see how this went. I'm sure Yoda would give his last hope basic training and not actually fully educate him on the Force.

Lets see:

When Luke goes into his rage attack, he basically charges at Vader swinging his sabre from left to right, like a madman. Vader does not take advantage of Luke's rage and feebly blocks him, whilst intentionally back peddling towards a nearby railing. Vader reaches the railing, quite deliberately falls over and then sits there, holding his sabre up quite weakly.

Luke then chops his hand off, gee anyone could do that.

Luke's victory is more a reflection on Vader's redemption rather than an actual fight.

Vader stronger than Kenobi!? WTF? Vader is less powerful in the Original Trilogy than he was as Anakin Skywalker in the PT. Not only that, did you miss the part where Obi-Wan turns off his lightsabre and lets vader hit him!?

You mean.....he fights realistically without CGI?!!?!?!

Yes....Yes, anyone could knock Vader to the ground and take his hand, just anyone.

Yeah, you miss the part where Obi-wan knows he can't beat Vader and would have if he could? And Anakin in ROTS was both stronger and a better duelist than Kenobi. Obi-wan, however, trained him and knows his moves and Anakin is fighting without a clear head due to Padme

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean.....he fights realistically without CGI?!!?!?!

Yes....Yes, anyone could knock Vader to the ground and take his hand, just anyone.

Yeah, you miss the part where Obi-wan knows he can't beat Vader and would have if he could? And Anakin in ROTS was both stronger and a better duelist than Kenobi. Obi-wan, however, trained him and knows his moves and Anakin is fighting without a clear head due to Padme

No, Anakin Skywalker is on par with Obi-Wan as a duelist.

Where on Earth does it show Obi-Wan being more scared? Not only that, Obi-Wan knows that Vader has to live to fulfill the prophecy.

Luke is very powerful much more than he was in ESB. Luke at this point was greater IMHO than Anakin when he faught dooku, he was able to stop himself from killing vader and going to the dark side something Anakin could never dream to do. And Luke was able to turn vader to the light side which was no easy thing to do. Then Luke grows up to be a the greatest badass jedi grandmaster the universe seen in a long long time. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people think so little of luke and vader who were both very powerful. Even YODA admitted that luke was powerful....very powerful.

Be careful, you use a lot of "IHMO"s and little evidence.

Luke was able to turn Vader to the light? Pah, Vader was never a true Sith Lord, he always had pangs of regrets. Couple that with his beloved son being tortured and calling out for help, Luke didn't do anything much apart from occassionaly screaming.

Yoda? Yoda says that yes, but he himself couldn't defeat the Emperor, little less an Emperor that had an extra twenty years of training and experience, how the **** is an apprentice going to beat him???

you got a point there, but still rank and experience is not everything, alot of other factors that win the fight: power, speed, wisdom, lightsaber skills, force powers, etc. Yoda had 900 years of experience while sids had less than about 100 years of experience. and yet Sids won that duel. So this means experience aint everything. Neither is rank there are some Knights who can defeat Jedi Masters. Anakin as a knight was far stronger than most of the jedi council.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
you got a point there, but still rank and experience is not everything, alot of other factors that win the fight: power, speed, wisdom, lightsaber skills, force powers, etc. Yoda had 900 years of experience while sids had less than about 100 years of experience. and yet Sids won that duel. So this means experience aint everything. Neither is rank there are some Knights who can defeat Jedi Masters. Anakin as a knight was far stronger than most of the jedi council.

Yoda would have won that duel if it was on open ground, Palpatine was just intelligent enough to use the terrain to his advantage.

Power: Maul wins this one. He is physically stronger than Luke and as a Sith Lord has displayed far more adeptitude and knowledge of the force.

Speed: Maul takes this. Not only is Maul more agile, but his sabre will be able to suprise Luke.

Wisdom: Maul has trained under Sidious and had access to a plethora of Sith knowledge. Luke had some knowledge from Yoda and Ben, but not enough.

Lightsabre skills: Maul has far more finesse in combat than Luke and experience. Not only that, how can Luke compete with the double-sabre? Luke will be suprised when Maul attacks and will have little time to form a strategy. He's bad enough in conventional sabre combat.

Force Skills: Maul. Maul owns Luke in this department. Maul has far more powers in the force and has displayed far more adeptitude in it too.

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My two cents. Maul pwns Luke.

Question about the force powers: Maul only displayed approx 1 force power: Push *that is actually canon* while luke displayed at least 6(cloak, choke, pull, jump, accuracy, rage, etc)

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Question about the force powers: Maul only displayed approx 1 force power: Push *that is actually canon* while luke displayed at least 6(cloak, choke, pull, jump, accuracy, rage, etc)

This is an EU forum. Read Shadowhunter or some of the other comics.

And WTF!?

"cloak,choke,pull,jump,accuracy,rage,"

When did Luke make himself invisible?

Luke choked two Gamorreans,bid deal. Any Sith or Jedi (they could, but wouldn't) worth his salt could. Pull? So what? Any Jedi or Sith can do that! Jump? Any Jedi or Sith can do that, including Maul. Accuracy? To deflect bolts? Any jedi or Sith can do that.

Rage? No, that was called being a retarded ****.

You've basically told me that Luke can use some other techniques that younglings can use, bug deal.

ok fine

Luke cannot even hope to compare to a Sith Lord who could feasibly take down the OT Vader.

How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

How do you know that? Where does it state that?

If anything, Windu recognises that Obi-Wan is better. Hence why he calls him "not a lightsabre master, the lightsabre master".

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

Yes, I do have evidence to support that.

He's referring to soresu.

Nick Gillard places Anakin on a higher tier than Obi-wan, that's for certain. Anakin slaughtered Dooku while Obi-wan was nearly killed against him.

His loss has to do with Padme

IF you have evidence, name it. Palp ran at the start? Yoda ran at the end. Palpatine got pushed? Yoda got fried into the wall. During the fight on level ground, it was purely equal

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's referring to soresu.

Nick Gillard places Anakin on a higher tier than Obi-wan, that's for certain. Anakin slaughtered Dooku while Obi-wan was nearly killed against him.

His loss has to do with Padme

Dooku was faking, get over it.

Nick Gillard puts Sidious on a higher level than Windu, even though Windu was a superior lightsabre duelist. And why should we listen to what he says?

Nothing to support that. Even in the novelization, he realizes he needs to fight or he'll be killed. and Gillard puts windu and Sidious on the same level....see he only makes up their fighting styles, how dare he compare them

Originally posted by Lightsnake
IF you have evidence, name it. Palp ran at the start? Yoda ran at the end. Palpatine got pushed? Yoda got fried into the wall. During the fight on level ground, it was purely equal

Erm, Yoda ran because he had no lightsabre and Sidious held the high ground, there was no hope in hell that he could win.

Sidious ran because he feared Yoda.

So Sidious runs because of fear and Yoda runs because he has ran out of options in which to kill Sidious.

Yes, how DARE Sidious not risk everything he'd gained for decades on one fight with an even opponent. Palpatine and Vader also feared that so called 'retarded farmboy.'

And I recall Yoda being blown off the platform...by his own ineptitude. So, you mean....Yoda was AFRAID to take on Sidious after that. Did Sidious still have a saber?