Man-Made Black Holes in 2007.

Has anybody else heard about his?

"WHAT: A tiny, harmless black hole created in a particle accelerator. Although this black hole would tear the fabric of spacetime, it would be so small that a billion billion of them joined together would equal the mass of a grain of salt."

"WHY: The only way man made black holes could form is if space were made of more than there dimensions--- that is, if there were "hidden" dimensions that went beyond our standard experience of up-down, left-right and front-back . Therefore, if we create black holes, we prove that the universe contains extra dimensions."

"WHO: Some 10,000 scientists from more than 50 countries building and operating a new particle accelerator, a tool for studying the fundamental bits of the universe."

"WHEN: The LHC will be up and running in late 2007. Its very first collisions could produce a detectable black holes."

😕 😖 What do you guys think?

Creating black holes in a lab would be rather dangerous yes? Science will be the end of us...

first playing with antimatter, now this?

sounds interesting!... Hmmmm....

If I had my bizzaro self, it would radicaly speed up the time taken for me to control the world....

Originally posted by Itzak
Has anybody else heard about his?

"WHAT: A tiny, harmless black hole created in a particle accelerator. Although this black hole would tear the fabric of spacetime, it would be so small that a billion billion of them joined together would equal the mass of a grain of salt."

"WHY: The only way man made black holes could form is if space were made of more than there dimensions--- that is, if there were "hidden" dimensions that went beyond our standard experience of up-down, left-right and front-back . Therefore, if we create black holes, we prove that the universe contains extra dimensions."

"WHO: Some 10,000 scientists from more than 50 countries building and operating a new particle accelerator, a tool for studying the fundamental bits of the universe."

"WHEN: The LHC will be up and running in late 2007. Its very first collisions could produce a detectable black holes."

😕 😖 What do you guys think?

I don't think it would happen. Nor do I think it could happen. Firstly I don't believe we are anywhere near the stage of creating a black hole, even a tiny one, considering the process of how one forms in the universe, and the kind of things required. I mean, tearing the fabric of spacetime? Looking at the pace of science over the last few years, it looks as if we still have some way to climb before getting close to that kind of potential.

Secondly, once a black hole opens, you can't shut it. If one were to form, no matter how small, it would have the potential to cause significant damage, unless they somehow had some way to combat the intense gravitational pull put out by a black holes (the kind of pull that light can't even escape in a normally formed black hole.) This pull might be reduced on a small scale, but it would still be significant. This is unless physics has advanced significantly in the past few years.

Thirdly - I suspect this would require an awesome amount of energy to achieve. And cash. Science is often shafted when it comes to cash, I wonder who would be coughing up the money needed to test something purely hypothetical, terribly dangerous, and most likely going to fail if it were true just to "prove that the universe contains extra dimensions", knowledge which I fear has no actual use other then for knowledges sake, which would be enough for me, but for investors? They invariably want something that'll make money, or get them significant kudos.

That and I don't understand the logic (though I admit I am no physicist) about the only way a man made hole could form is if there are more then three dimensions. What about natural black holes? They don't need more then three dimensions to form? And how does a man made hole prove it? By simply existing?

I certainly am no expert on this either, but the guys (and gals) in the white lab coats may be trying to create a Quantum black hole, something which, gravitationally, would not be a threat to the macroscopic world because, for all its ferocious density, it would still be way too small and way too short-lived. The "energy density" required to make it (in the absence of "real, stay-put" density) is simply not enough to produce anything dangerous.

I imagine the scientists wanna make their own black hole cuz 1) it would give them something "close-up" to study (however briefly); and 2) well, humans being humans, we do like our toys.

Many, many years ago, there was talk about super-duper secret projects involving nothing short of absolutely scifi-caliber stuff. Example - the hyperspatial howitzer. Idea - detonate a nuclear weapon on your turf, but before the explosion has a chance to expand, wormhole it into enemy territory.

Ever verified? No. Cold War propaganda? Probably. And yet...

I'm pretty sure, given the wildest idea, if there is a military application for it, somewhere there is a Won't-Even-Acknowledge-Its-Existence lab working on it. Black Holes? That's it? yawn

I am no specialist but I am majoring on physics and I do have some knowledge about that. For what I know, it seems that there is even rules to prevent these kind of accidents, when using a particle accelerator scientists are not totally free to do whatever they want if an experiment could possibly in theory generate a black hole.
Any amount of mass, even individual protons, or neutrons can originate a black hole, you just need to compress its mass highly enough. In a particle accelerator particles are accelerated to very high speeds, and relativity tells that at these speeds things become contracted by Lorentz contraction, and the mass will increase. This means that the density of a particle will increase since it tends to have its mass increased, and its lenght contracted, so if you send something at a extreme high velocity, the density could be enough to create quantum black holes, but probably these quantum black holes evaporate quickly.

Sounds like a movie I've seen...Ended in disaster. 😖

this is gonna be the cause of the end or the world

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Creating black holes in a lab would be rather dangerous yes? Science will be the end of us...

i think people r over reactin. blackholes that small exist on the quantum level, so do worm holes, althought this one might be a lil bigger it isnbt a threat at all. blackholes CAN be generated by strong particle acceleraters but theyr too minute to detect.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Any amount of mass, even individual protons, or neutrons can originate a black hole, you just need to compress its mass highly enough. In a particle accelerator particles are accelerated to very high speeds, and relativity tells that at these speeds things become contracted by Lorentz contraction, and the mass will increase. This means that the density of a particle will increase since it tends to have its mass increased, and its lenght contracted, so if you send something at a extreme high velocity, the density could be enough to create quantum black holes, but probably these quantum black holes evaporate quickly. [/B]

Yeah that's supposed to be what their doing... "How to create a Black Hole: 1) Fire two Protons: Supermagnets in the 17-mile-long LHC accelerate two beams of proton to near light speed and point them on a collision course.
2) Add Extra Dimensions: Small extra dimensions--- if they exist--- appear when the protons get close together. In effect, they increase the force of gravity.
3) Collapse Gravity: Eventually the force of Gravity between the protons becomes so strong that it forces quarks in the colliding protons to coalesce.
4)Rip Spacetime: This Merger collapses spacetime and forms a minuscule black hole tens of thousands of as small as the nucleus of an atom.
5) Watch it Dissolve: The black hole nearly instantaneously disintegrates into a dozen or more different kinds of particles as a result of Hawking radiation
6) Track the Debris: A 10-story-tall detector measures those particles as they blast from its center those from a black hole would create a unique pattern."

Well, I guess we'll have to wait until late 2007.

And questionably, are there a potential benefits in a man-made Black hole or the making of one? Because purely, if this Black hole can some how be bonified then it maybe worth taking a risk to create one because the reward may outweigh.

It would probably just as worthy to mankind as it would be destructive if good use were to be extracted from it. If spacial and gravitational laws are respected and abided by then I see no problem in commencing such a project. And possibly if (big IF) it were detrimental or not because we must realize that sometimes for the greater good, sacrifices must be made in order to advance our civilization.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
And questionably, are there a potential benefits in a man-made Black hole or the making of one? Because purely, if this Black hole can some how be bonified then it maybe worth taking a risk to create one because the reward may outweigh.

It would probably just as worthy to mankind as it would be destructive if good use were to be extracted from it. If spacial and gravitational laws are respected and abided by then I see no problem in commencing such a project. And possibly if (big IF) it were detrimental or not because we must realize that sometimes for the greater good, sacrifices must be made in order to advance our civilization.

Yes. As already pointed out, a Black hole would make extra dimensions (if there are any) visible. And that would 1.) Prove the fact that there are extra dimensions in the world. And 2.) They could reconcile the major theories of the 20th century: quantum mechanics (the physics of the very small) and general relativity (the physics of spacetime). Without extra dimensions, quantum mechanics implies that gravity should be much stronger than it is.

And I couldn't agree with you more FistOfThe North.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Thirdly - I suspect this would require an awesome amount of energy to achieve. And cash. Science is often shafted when it comes to cash, I wonder who would be coughing up the money needed to test something purely hypothetical, terribly dangerous, and most likely going to fail if it were true just to "prove that the universe contains extra dimensions", knowledge which I fear has no actual use other then for knowledges sake, which would be enough for me, but for investors? They invariably want something that'll make money, or get them significant kudos.

Making black holes = not a good idea.

Originally posted by Aziz!
Making black holes = not a good idea.

I agree

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I am no specialist but I am majoring on physics and I do have some knowledge about that. For what I know, it seems that there is even rules to prevent these kind of accidents, when using a particle accelerator scientists are not totally free to do whatever they want if an experiment could possibly in theory generate a black hole.
Any amount of mass, even individual protons, or neutrons can originate a black hole, you just need to compress its mass highly enough. In a particle accelerator particles are accelerated to very high speeds, and relativity tells that at these speeds things become contracted by Lorentz contraction, and the mass will increase. This means that the density of a particle will increase since it tends to have its mass increased, and its lenght contracted, so if you send something at a extreme high velocity, the density could be enough to create quantum black holes, but probably these quantum black holes evaporate quickly.

Thats correct .... It been theorized that the fundamental particles e.g. quarks and electrons could be made up of mini black holes (Although this theory has been rejected by most physicists).... A black hole is just a twisted piece of space time, that light cannot escape from .... it doesn't have to be of any mass or size ...

I agree that such experiment are extremely dangerous .... C.E.R.N. (I think its C.E.R.N. anyway) has had a lot of people worried, over years .... With such high energy experiment its been theorized that one can change the very state of the universe .... i.e space time would change at the rate of the speed of light .... I've heard it is even possible to change the earth into a giant Proton like particle !!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Thats correct .... It been theorized that the fundamental particles e.g. quarks and electrons could be made up of mini black holes (Although this theory has been rejected by most physicists).... A black hole is just a twisted piece of space time, that light cannot escape from .... it doesn't have to be of any mass or size ...

I agree that such experiment are extremely dangerous .... C.E.R.N. (I think its C.E.R.N. anyway) has had a lot of people worried, over years .... With such high energy experiment its been theorized that one can change the very state of the universe .... i.e space time would change at the rate of the speed of light .... I've heard it is even possible to change the earth into a giant Proton like particle !!!!!!!!!!

As I understand it, the conc.e.r.n. 😛 has been that our universe is still not a "true" vacuum but a "false" vacuum, and our experiments will initiate a local bubble of inflation, sorta like the inflation in the first eensy-weensy-willionth of a sec after the Big Bang.

IMO, this is likely paranoia/arrogance on a grand scale.

I've also heard our entire universe being compared to a black hole, ie, that we are living inside one, since (as far as we know) light cannot escape it.

Originally posted by Mindship
As I understand it, the conc.e.r.n. 😛 has been that our universe is still not a "true" vacuum but a "false" vacuum, and our experiments will initiate a local bubble of inflation, sorta like the inflation in the first eensy-weensy-willionth of a sec after the Big Bang.

'IMO, this is likely paranoia/arrogance on a grand scale.'

I've also heard our entire universe being compared to a black hole, ie, that we are living inside one, since (as far as we know) light cannot escape it.

'IMO, this is likely paranoia/arrogance on a grand scale.'

Agreed

Although it was rated by two reliable sources as the greatest danger to mankind (No one of them wasn't FHM !!!!!!!!!!) .... One of them even made the remark

'If and Alien race did know what we were up to, they would 'exteriminate' us all for for their own safety '

or something on those lines.

It doesn't prove that there are 11 dimensions (i.e. as predicted by M theory,) but more than 4.

Has anyone read the latest issue of New scientist ?