Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I understand love is strong and I do sympathise that you went through that, but how many right hands does it take before you go "Wait..."?Blaming love is no excuse, although you've said that you now know you should have got out.
-AC
I know... and I agree completely. One right hand is one too many.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I understand that love etc can make the whole situation harder than it might otherwise be, but if you continually get battered and he says "I'll change" but doesn't and continues beating you, then it's pretty blunt.If you don't leave after that, it's nonsense. I'm not a girl, I'm a guy, but at the same time I fail to see absolutely any sense behind staying with a man who beats the shit out of you, probably because there isn't one.
Although there is the whole "He threatened me to stay" element, which I suppose is very dangerous, but that's what the police are for.
-AC
True, but love excuse is not the issue i am refering to, though.
For women, who are married at least, there are numerous problems in leaving abusive relationship -
a) they have children and nowhere to go
b) they are afraid to leave, because men threaten to kill them/take their children away
c) they simply love them (as you refered to it)
d) they depend economically on the other person
e) they are psychologically affected by abuse to the point that they do not see anything wrong with what is happening to them
f) the abuser is buying the women everything and financially supporting her, and making her feel she is indebted to him
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
They are inaccurate how?In Britain we have something called British Crime Survey, plus police reports and records.
So unless police is ''making up statistics'' then i guess they would be innacurate.
And BCS's surveys says violence against women, when compared with the statistics of the police are underreported.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
True, but love excuse is not the issue i am refering to, though.For women, who are married at least, there are numerous problems in leaving abusive relationship -
a) they have children and nowhere to go
b) they are afraid to leave, because men threaten to kill them/take their children away
c) they simply love them (as you refered to it)
d) they depend economically on the other person
e) they are psychologically affected by abuse to the point that they do not see anything wrong with what is happening to them
f) the abuser is buying the women everything and financially supporting her, and making her feel she is indebted to him
Well C is pointless, as I just said, so we can strike that one off.
D and F are more or less the same and I'll admit, not a good reason but a reason nonetheless.
B can be solved with legal intervention, police intervention etc.
E is a poor excuse in my opinion. If you don't see that someone kicking the shit out of you is wrong, then...well. Good luck in life.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well C is pointless, as I just said, so we can strike that one off.D and F are more or less the same and I'll admit, not a good reason but a reason nonetheless.
B can be solved with legal intervention, police intervention etc.
E is a poor excuse in my opinion. If you don't see that someone kicking the shit out of you is wrong, then...well. Good luck in life.
-AC
It does not suprise me that people are finding it difficult to comprehend this, as it isn't uncommon.
If a child grows up in an enviroment where, the abuse is constant isuch behaviour becomes a norm.
If one person lives in an invaroment where the abuse is constant(or any kind of behaviour), it becomes a norm. This kind of thing is called ''learnt behaviour''
The abusee will learn how to either, make the abuse less effective to him/her, or it will accpt it as the ''way it should be''
People who are in prison for life, and have exoperienced violence every day of their life, flighting or being fighted, have taken this behaviour to be a norm, and although others may find it disturbing, for them it is a norm.
I'll give you an example - a survey was done on the prostitutes of San Francisco - they were asked if they were abused as children or as adults - they said no. When they were asked about if pimps hit them, they confirmed, but said that they did not see that as an abuse - its simply something that happens.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
It does not suprise me that people are finding it difficult to comprehend this, as it isn't uncommon.If a child grows up in an enviroment where, the abuse is constant isuch behaviour becomes a norm.
I've seen severe physical abuse between partners before, so if you're implying I don't comprehend this, I suggest you don't make assumptions. We've seen what happens there before. I'm growing tired of you assuming that due to reading surveys and stats, you know more than people. No disrespect meant, but it's just shit.
A child being used to something doesn't mean it becomes less bad. There's a difference between being accustomed to it and being desensitised to it.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If one person lives in an invaroment where the abuse is constant(or any kind of behaviour), it becomes a norm. This kind of thing is called ''learnt behaviour''
The abusee will learn how to either, make the abuse less effective to him/her, or it will accpt it as the ''way it should be''People who are in prison for life, and have exoperienced violence every day of their life, flighting or being fighted, have taken this behaviour to be a norm, and although others may find it disturbing, for them it is a norm.
Whether they fight or get FOUGHT, it makes zero difference. The norm it maybe, but you are again confusing desensitisation with being accustomed to it.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I'll give you an example - a survey was done on the prostitutes of San Francisco - they were asked if they were abused as children or as adults - they said no. When they were asked about if pimps hit them, they confirmed, but said that they did not see that as an abuse - its simply something that happens.
Idiots then aren't they? It's abuse. They don't see it because they are compromised, it's abuse. There's no debating that really.
Beating a female to achieve dominance is abuse.
-AC
Frankly, I would rate Lil's quoted studies and stats far beyond the testimony of the odd person here. She is making use of serious academic research, and that deserves some respect. Your witnessing of violent contact between partners strikes me as having no relevance as to whether you can comment with authority on the situation, AC. To witness is not to experience, and even to experience is not necessarily to know. It requires objective analysis which Lil has provided, and if you cannot combat that with something other than your own opinion then she is looking in a much superior position.
And I certainly agree with her that there is a distinct lack of empathy here, and labelling all such people as 'idiots' is a remarkably unhelpful attitude to a difficult situation. It would be a much nicer and simpler world if all things like this were down to stupidity- but things sure as hell are not like that, as experts in the field will readily tell you.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Frankly, I would rate Lil's quoted studies and stats far beyond the testimony of the odd person here. She is making use of serious academic research, and that deserves some respect. Your witnessing of violent contact between partners strikes me as having no relevance as to whether you can comment with authority on the situation, AC. To witness is not to experience, and even to experience is not necessarily to know. It requires objective analysis which Lil has provided, and if you cannot combat that with something other than your own opinion then she is looking in a much superior position.
Studies and stats are all well and good, they may very well be accurate, but if that's all you have, then you don't have much. The fact that I've asked her before if she has experience in matters she talks about and got dodged more than Wile. E Coyote suggests that she's relying on her stats and studies to override actually experiencing it. You said experiencing isn't to know, but it sure as hell helps. If she's holding these studies to be gospel without practical experience or evidence, then it's like reading a book saying "Most men/women are cheaters" and believing it. No matter how convincing the book may be, experiencing life will prove that differently. Just like witnessing physical abuse will undoubtedly make you think twice about those studies. Whilst it's not necessarily objective, it's without a doubt important.
I agree that this subject needs to be afforded a greater respect that "The woman should just leave" but there are two sides to the coin here. If all Lil has are stats, nice. IF she's never experienced it or been in an active situation in which there is abuse going on, then she is ALSO uneducated on a certain aspect of this.
She can have all the stats she wants, she's learned them from a book or the net, or a teacher. If she wants to trade that with having to witness the abuse, then I'll gladly do so. Because I'm sure she'd be the first person to retort with "You haven't experienced it" if the roles were reversed.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And I certainly agree with her that there is a distinct lack of empathy here, and labelling all such people as 'idiots' is a remarkably unhelpful attitude to a difficult situation. It would be a much nicer and simpler world if all things like this were down to stupidity- but things sure as hell are not like that, as experts in the field will readily tell you.
I've openly said that there are not always ways that make it easy to get out and when Lil raised some of those, I agreed.
I don't believe love is a justifiable reason, because if you are getting socked around and still think "Aww he loves me" then yes I question the woman's intelligence.
-AC
Originally posted by Syren
But I have personal experience and I agree with Milla 😕
Then go you.
I'm not even saying the woman is wrong, am I? I even went so far as to say I agreed with what her and Ush said in some places. The problem I have is that Milla seems to override and overrule personal experience and the effect of, everytime she speaks about something. Ironically, she almost never has any experience in the matter outside of her studies.
I'm not saying she's wrong, I'm saying she should take more into consideration.
-AC