Originally posted by TRH
I respectfully disagreeHow so?
Human rights are just a vague concept anyways...so disagree away.
Well, the limits on a free market as well as the health care systems your country has are directly opposed to libertarian ideals.
In a libertarian society the goods would be cheaper and the people would have more money. Almost everyone could afford Health Care. Those that couldn't could be covered by other means, charity being a major one. Once such a state would exist though, one could even argue for a limited welfare net for the least fortunate, so it is not necessary. The troubles the US has are directly caused by corporate lobbyism and naive socialism, though they try to attribute it to libertarian theories.
Originally posted by Bardock42So, you would like to directly change the USA from a free market to a Libertarian Society.
Human rights are just a vague concept anyways...so disagree away.Well, the limits on a free market as well as the health care systems your country has are directly opposed to libertarian ideals.
In a libertarian society the goods would be cheaper and the people would have more money. Almost everyone could afford Health Care. Those that couldn't could be covered by other means, charity being a major one. Once such a state would exist though, one could even argue for a limited welfare net for the least fortunate, so it is not necessary. The troubles the US has are directly caused by corporate lobbyism and naive socialism, though they try to attribute it to libertarian theories.
I don't see how human rights could be vague.
What about Public Schooling?
Originally posted by TRHNo. I would like to change it from a social market as it is now to a free market.
So, you would like to directly change the USA from a free market to a Libertarian Society.I don't see how human rights could be vague.
What about Public Schooling?
Human rights are a moral concept. Everyone can have different opinions on what constitutes them.
No public schools. O-or is education a human right too now?
Originally posted by Bardock42
No. I would like to change it from a social market as it is now to a free market.Human rights are a moral concept. Everyone can have different opinions on what constitutes them.
No public schools. O-or is education a human right too now?
Originally posted by TRH
I think everyone should have equal opportunity as far as education goes, it's simply not fair, that's the bottom line , why should someone get to go to school and have a good life because of it while someone else doesn't have the resources and because there is no public schooling has to settle for a second class life.
How is that fair?
It's not fair. But life isn't fair. Tell me how it is fair to take money from people who work for it to give it to others so they can go to school?
Besides, again the problem would be minimal in a libertarian society. Schools would be cheap. Many other options would be available.
Originally posted by Bardock42You mean taxes?...Tax is just like a membership fee to a society in a sort of way.
It's not fair. But life isn't fair. Tell me how it is fair to take money from people who work for it to give it to others so they can go to school?Besides, again the problem would be minimal in a libertarian society. Schools would be cheap. Many other options would be available.
You can't just assume everything would be "Cheap", the economy is complicated.
Originally posted by TRH
You mean taxes?...Tax is just like a membership fee to a society in a sort of way.
Just that it is imposed with weapons. So it is more of a street robbery than a fee for a club.
Originally posted by TRH
The government should get there taxes from people who have more money to spare instead of decent hard working people that can barely put food on the table.
Because the rich aren't decet and hard working? Why don't they deserve the money. Don't they provide services that are immensely more valuable than those of the poor?
Originally posted by TRH
You can't just assume everything would be "Cheap", the economy is complicated.
Maybe I can't. But you can't assume that the shit that happened in countries going by laws similar to ones proposed by you, apply to my society. It is unfair to judge it by the mistakes of one society. In any case, in my society you and everyone that feels like you always has the right to donate all their money to charities ensuring such things. You just do not have the right to steal the money for others and invest it in your believes.
Originally posted by Bardock42I don't believe in jail for taxes,the gov needs better things to worry about than that,the USA's legal system if flawed.
Just that it is imposed with weapons. So it is more of a street robbery than a fee for a club.Because the rich aren't decet and hard working? Why don't they deserve the money. Don't they provide services that are immensely more valuable than those of the poor?
Maybe I can't. But you can't assume that the shit that happened in countries going by laws similar to ones proposed by you, apply to my society. It is unfair to judge it by the mistakes of one society. In any case, in my society you and everyone that feels like you always has the right to donate all their money to charities ensuring such things. You just do not have the right to steal the money for others and invest it in your believes.
I didn't say they didn't deserve the money,not always,many times they just got there by clawing there way up ruthlessly and give NOTHING back to there society, everyone should.
I wasn't judging what would happen in a libertarian society,as far as I am aware there hasn't been one(?),People are greedy,you can't just rely on charity to prop up the lower parts of the society.
Originally posted by TRH
I don't believe in jail for taxes,the gov needs better things to worry about than that,the USA's legal system if flawed.
Well, then you could just de facto refuse. What's the point? What will they do if you refuse to pay your taxes?
Originally posted by TRH
I didn't say they didn't deserve the money,not always,many times they just got there by clawing there way up ruthlessly and give NOTHING back to there society, everyone should.
Sure. Most didn't though.
Originally posted by TRH
I wasn't judging what would happen in a libertarian society,as far as I am aware there hasn't been one(?),People are greedy,you can't just rely on charity to prop up the lower parts of the society.
Which is odd. Because around 95% of the people I debate think National Health Care and Public Education are awesome. Explain to me that, do they only support it as long as it is primarily funded by...not their money, but the richest parts of society?
And if so many people as you say are greedy, a large majority I take it, why should they be forced to pay? Democracy?
Originally posted by Bardock42There could be some other penalty than jail,community service maybe,I also think if people had sufficient proof that they could not afford it.
Well, then you could just de facto refuse. What's the point? What will they do if you refuse to pay your taxes?Sure. Most didn't though.
Which is odd. Because around 95% of the people I debate think National Health Care and Public Education are awesome. Explain to me that, do they only support it as long as it is primarily funded by...not their money, but the richest parts of society?
And if so many people as you say are greedy, a large majority I take it, why should they be forced to pay? Democracy?
Once I am older,I will fulfill my debt to society,as every person should.
Because greed isn't something they should be proud of,everyone should want to help there fellow man.
Originally posted by TRHWhat if the person doesn't go to the community service? And what is about the affording business. You constantly try to advance a thought that rich people should be punished for being successful.
There could be some other penalty than jail,community service maybe,I also think if people had sufficient proof that they could not afford it.Once I am older,I will fulfill my debt to society,as every person should.
Because greed isn't something they should be proud of,everyone should want to help there fellow man.
No, you are an individual. You don't owe society anything. If you feel like doing so fine. If you feel like forcing other people, then that is not fine and should be fought to with any means.
Originally posted by Bardock42Well I guess that could constitute jail time.
What if the person doesn't go to the community service? And what is about the affording business. You constantly try to advance a thought that rich people should be punished for being successful.No, you are an individual. You don't owe society anything. If you feel like doing so fine. If you feel like forcing other people, then that is not fine and should be fought to with any means.
I don't feel like forcing people to fulfil a dept to society but I think people should if that makes any sense.
People should not be forced to do anything other than obey the law.
I'm young anyway,I am still discovering my political beliefs,they may change,they may not.
Originally posted by TRH
Well I guess that could constitute jail time.
So, in the end it would again be money taken by force of guns. Alright.
Originally posted by TRH
I don't believe in them being punished, if we raised taxes on rich people just slightly we could afford so much more and we certainly should not cut taxes on them.
We should make taxes equal. It is not fair that one person has to pay so much more than others, just because they had more skills and better ideas.
Originally posted by TRH
I don't feel like forcing people to fulfil a dept to society but I think people should if that makes any sense.
People should not be forced to do anything other than obey the law.
Agreed. The law can be very far spread though. It should be.
Originally posted by TRH
I'm young anyway,I am still discovering my political beliefs,they may change,they may not.
Well, I hope you give libertarianism a though. We need more people to change everything for the better.
Originally posted by Bardock42Maybe if the government would not recklessly spend money on wars etc we would have more money saved up and in the end taxes would be lower.
So, in the end it would again be money taken by force of guns. Alright.We should make taxes equal. It is not fair that one person has to pay so much more than others, just because they had more skills and better ideas.
Agreed. The law can be very far spread though. It should be.
Well, I hope you give libertarianism a though. We need more people to change everything for the better.
I'll give every thing a thought.
and,Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they didn't have good ideas,they just didn't have the environment to develop them and many rich people just watched there parents work there way up and inherited all there money and now sit on there ass while people all over the world starve.