Of course I do, would you expect any less?
1. Kyp has demonstrated a greater level of force mastery. How do we know? Lets look at the obvious facts, shall we:
- Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Yep, Luke Skywalkers most famous feat has been done by someone else, this someone being none other then Kyp Durron.
- Kyp Durron defeated JA Luke. Now, JA Luke is a far cry from NJO Luke, but even JA Luke could give Hoth a very hard time. Now, plenty of people say, "well...well...it must have been Exar. YES! It was Exar. Exar did it, not Kyp!" Well, I ask you how the heck would Exar have done that? Exar was so weak at this point that he had difficulty talking to people for an extended period of time without rest and he had just used up almost all of his energy killing Gantoris just a few weeks earlier. But then we get the argument that there is just no way Kyp Durron could have defeated Luke with just 2 or 3 weeks of training. Well, I thought so too until I realized that Vima(a decendent of Nomi Sunrider) had spent months, if not years teaching him. Kyp had already spent a lot of time learning before he fought Luke.
So, Kyp Durron has the ability, within weaks of attending the Jedi Academy, to literally rip JA Luke Skywalker out of his body. Impressive? I think so.
2. But Hoth has more experince!!!!11!
- Well, this may of may not be true for combat. Now, having been at way his entire life mixed with the fact that he is a good 20 or so years older then Kyp you would certainly think so, but guess what! Kyp was one of the most proactive Jedi ever. He was the very first person to fight a Yuuzhan Vong. Most other Jedi perferred to wait back and wait for a response from the opposing side. Kyp on the other hand perferred more aggresive negotiations.
So, even though Hoth has more experince overall(which won't help very much in combat), he has not much more experince then Kyp in a combat sense, because even though Hoth was a warrior Jedi, we have no indication that he was as constant of a fighter as Kyp.
3. Kyp killed the Leviathan!
This is one of Kyp's biggest feats and one of the most impressive feats ever performed by a force user. Why, because he killed an Ancient Superweapon that was designed to kill Jedi in massive numbers. Want to see it? Well even if you don't, here it is:
Now, don't say I don't know anything about Lord Hoth or anything like that as I probably know more then 90% of the people here at KMC.
So, now it's your turn. How does Hoth compare to Kyp in the slightest.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Of course I do, would you expect any less?1. Kyp has demonstrated a greater level of force mastery. How do we know? Lets look at the obvious facts, shall we:
- Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Yep, Luke Skywalkers most famous feat has been done by someone else, this someone being none other then Kyp Durron.
- Kyp Durron defeated JA Luke. Now, JA Luke is a far cry from NJO Luke, but even JA Luke could give Hoth a very hard time. Now, plenty of people say, "well...well...it must have been Exar. YES! It was Exar. Exar did it, not Kyp!" Well, I ask you how the heck would Exar have done that? Exar was so weak at this point that he had difficulty talking to people for an extended period of time without rest and he had just used up almost all of his energy killing Gantoris just a few weeks earlier. But then we get the argument that there is just no way Kyp Durron could have defeated Luke with just 2 or 3 weeks of training. Well, I thought so too until I realized that Vima(a decendent of Nomi Sunrider) had spent months, if not years teaching him. Kyp had already spent a lot of time learning before he fought Luke.
So, Kyp Durron has the ability, within weaks of attending the Jedi Academy, to literally rip JA Luke Skywalker out of his body. Impressive? I think so.
2. But Hoth has more experince!!!!11!
- Well, this may of may not be true for combat. Now, having been at way his entire life mixed with the fact that he is a good 20 or so years older then Kyp you would certainly think so, but guess what! Kyp was one of the most proactive Jedi ever. He was the very first person to fight a Yuuzhan Vong. Most other Jedi perferred to wait back and wait for a response from the opposing side. Kyp on the other hand perferred more aggresive negotiations.
So, even though Hoth has more experince overall(which won't help very much in combat), he has not much more experince then Kyp in a combat sense, because even though Hoth was a warrior Jedi, we have no indication that he was as constant of a fighter as Kyp.
3. Kyp killed the Leviathan!
This is one of Kyp's biggest feats and one of the most impressive feats ever performed by a force user. Why, because he killed an Ancient Superweapon that was designed to kill Jedi in massive numbers. Want to see it? Well even if you don't, here it is:
Now, don't say I don't know anything about Lord Hoth or anything like that as I probably know more then 90% of the people here at KMC.
So, now it's your turn. How does Hoth compare to Kyp in the slightest.
Originally posted by calvin44
ok, finally you give me substanial proof on you side, I wanted to know if you had any proof, and i see it, so, Darth Glentract: You are right.
What? I finally give you proof! lol. You are such a joker. How many times have you given proof beyond what I give? Infact, when have you ever given substantial proof for your side? Lets see, you other post in this thread states, "FTW???? hell no!" and the other says, "What proof you have glentract?"
Lets see your proof in some of the other threads that actually means anything rather then just your blind assumptions like, "Leaving the force must be hard so he must be powerful."
Also worth noting:
Hoth was considered the one Jedi who could potentially resist the Thought Bomb or be a hindrance to it.
Moreover, Kyp didn't kill that LEviathan on his own, he had most of the other students backing him up, as well as the fact that Hoith grew up in an era warring with the Sith...Hoth was the Jedi who turned the Sith back and crushed their empire
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Of course I do, would you expect any less?
Lol!
1. Kyp has demonstrated a greater level of force mastery. How do we know? Lets look at the obvious facts, shall we:- Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Yep, Luke Skywalkers most famous feat has been done by someone else, this someone being none other then Kyp Durron.
A dovin basal, not a full-scale blackhole.
- Kyp Durron defeated JA Luke. Now, JA Luke is a far cry from NJO Luke, but even JA Luke could give Hoth a very hard time. Now, plenty of people say, "well...well...it must have been Exar. YES! It was Exar. Exar did it, not Kyp!" Well, I ask you how the heck would Exar have done that? Exar was so weak at this point that he had difficulty talking to people for an extended period of time without rest and he had just used up almost all of his energy killing Gantoris just a few weeks earlier. But then we get the argument that there is just no way Kyp Durron could have defeated Luke with just 2 or 3 weeks of training. Well, I thought so too until I realized that Vima(a decendent of Nomi Sunrider) had spent months, if not years teaching him. Kyp had already spent a lot of time learning before he fought Luke.
You make it sound like Kyp owned Luke in a duel or something. Not really. He knocked Luke' spirit out of his body with the help of Exar, while Luke was hesitant to hurt him. And Kun did a good bit of the work himself, presumably. He was powerful enough to fry Gantoris a while before, and challenge a dozen Jedi Padawans and spirits just prior to his death.
2. But Hoth has more experince!!!!11!- Well, this may of may not be true for combat. Now, having been at way his entire life mixed with the fact that he is a good 20 or so years older then Kyp you would certainly think so, but guess what! Kyp was one of the most proactive Jedi ever. He was the very first person to fight a Yuuzhan Vong. Most other Jedi perferred to wait back and wait for a response from the opposing side. Kyp on the other hand perferred more aggresive negotiations.
So, even though Hoth has more experince overall(which won't help very much in combat), he has not much more experince then Kyp in a combat sense, because even though Hoth was a warrior Jedi, we have no indication that he was as constant of a fighter as Kyp.
Pro-active as may have been, and however versatile the threats, he lacked the saber-to-saber experience that Hoth possessed. The elder Jedi led the Army of Light against the Brotherhood for years and years, and was the foremost combatant in the Jedi ranks.
3. Kyp killed the Leviathan!This is one of Kyp's biggest feats and one of the most impressive feats ever performed by a force user. Why, because he killed an Ancient Superweapon that was designed to kill Jedi in massive numbers. Want to see it? Well even if you don't, here it is:
Now, don't say I don't know anything about Lord Hoth or anything like that as I probably know more then 90% of the people here at KMC.
So, now it's your turn. How does Hoth compare to Kyp in the slightest.
And yet you still have absolutely no idea how he killed it, do you?
Since we have no idea how Revan killed two Terantatek simultaneously, I'll say that he roasted them to death with his pinky finger.
He has teh Uber lightning!!
--
Just to clear things up, I'm favoring Kyp in this battle. But it certainly won't be anywhere near as much of a landslide as you make it seem.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
A dovin basal, not a full-scale blackhole.
True, it was just a dovin basal. The thing is though that he controlled it just as easily as NJO Luke did.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
You make it sound like Kyp owned Luke in a duel or something. Not really. He knocked Luke' spirit out of his body with the help of Exar, while Luke was hesitant to hurt him. And Kun did a good bit of the work himself, presumably. He was powerful enough to fry Gantoris a while before, and challenge a dozen Jedi Padawans and spirits just prior to his death.
How is knocking someone out of their body in seconds not owning them?
Corran Horn said that Exar had to rest for a long time before doing anything(like 2 weeks or so). Corran also said that Kyp was more in control when he blasted Luke and did all those other things then Exar was and he provided some reasons that made him think that, but I don't remember what his evidence was. Gantoris was only a little bit stronger then Corran at this point. Corran got blasted back into a wall by Kyp when he tried to calm him down. Exar killing Gantoris doesn't mean that he was very powerful or that he even did more then a little of the work to defeat Luke.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Pro-active as may have been, and however versatile the threats, he lacked the saber-to-saber experience that Hoth possessed. The elder Jedi led the Army of Light against the Brotherhood for years and years, and was the foremost combatant in the Jedi ranks.
Kyp had huge amounts of melee experince with the Yuuzhan Vong since he was on the frontline 90% of the time. We have no proof that Hoth fought up front(or at least I haven't seen any indication of this). We do know that Hoth was called a great fighter even in his old age, but so was Yoda who spent almost no time on the frontline.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
And yet you still have absolutely no idea how he killed it, do you?Since we have no idea how Revan killed two Terantatek simultaneously, I'll say that he roasted them to death with his pinky finger.
He has teh Uber lightning!!
We know that he was able to rip Luke from his body even after JA. It would be foolish to assume that he killed it in some way that didn't require his power. The less assumptions that we make, the better. Assuming that there were special cicumstances to his victory is foolish.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
We know that he was able to rip Luke from his body even after JA. It would be foolish to assume that he killed it in some way that didn't require his power. The less assumptions that we make, the better. Assuming that there were special cicumstances to his victory is foolish.
True, it was just a dovin basal. The thing is though that he controlled it just as easily as NJO Luke did.
Means... nothing in combat. Unless he is gonna control one while battling a jedi war general, who cares?
How is knocking someone out of their body in seconds not owning them?
For one, this was with Kun's help. Why is this being discussed? Has he done it to others since?
Corran Horn said that Exar had to rest for a long time before doing anything(like 2 weeks or so). Corran also said that Kyp was more in control when he blasted Luke and did all those other things then Exar was and he provided some reasons that made him think that, but I don't remember what his evidence was.
So Corran Horn is the expert on Kyp's power level or something? The point here is that you have one feat (Which, btw, is useles in this battle against someone out to kill Kyp who manhandles Sith for a living) which was done with some sort of aid, and you're applying it to Kyp's overall mastery. WTF?
Gantoris was only a little bit stronger then Corran at this point. Corran got blasted back into a wall by Kyp when he tried to calm him down.
key phrase right there- trying to calm him down. Not "trying to block his force TK" or "trying to saber his ass." These are boosted feats against his friends, not real enemies.
Exar killing Gantoris doesn't mean that he was very powerful or that he even did more then a little of the work to defeat Luke.
... Right.
Kyp had huge amounts of melee experince with the Yuuzhan Vong since he was on the frontline 90% of the time.
Where'd you get this figure from? Proof, Glentract?
We have no proof that Hoth fought up front(or at least I haven't seen any indication of this). We do know that Hoth was called a great fighter even in his old age, but so was Yoda who spent almost no time on the frontline.
Every piece of artwork from the time period shows jedi against sith on a battlefield.
Here's a quote from Wookieepedia:
Unlike the charismatic Farfalla, Hoth had little time for diplomacy, nor the delicate etiquette his rank sometimes required. Where he did excel was warfare—he was a superb tactician and, even in his advanced age, a warrior without peer.
Assuming this is accurate (And you are notorious for saying that Wookieepedia is reliable) Hoth would be peerless among an ARMY of Jedi who fought daily against Sith! You expect us to believe that Kyp "I have an attitude problem and I'm a force prodigy" Durron is going to pwn a battle hardened veteran? Pfft.
We know that he was able to rip Luke from his body even after JA. It would be foolish to assume that he killed it in some way that didn't require his power.
Uh huh.
The less assumptions that we make, the better. Assuming that there were special cicumstances to his victory is foolish.
But you've made a MOUNTAIN of assumptions, Glentract. All of them in favor of Kyp. More post-OT bias. You've assumed that Kyp's raw feats under the partial control of an insane Exar Kun reflect his force mastery in combat. You've assumed that killing the leviathan (Through means which are still in question) means he is the pwn-all of combat. You've assumed that Kyps' experience with the Vong trump Hoth's lifetime of experience against the lightsaber toting Sith.
In short, you've assumed a bunch of unsupported bullshit. Prove your case better.
And for the record, I say Hoth wins this.
