world's best martial artist match

Originally posted by joesha28
Shang-Chi did state that Wolvie has discipline in his moves (he has too, since he learn alot in 100 over years). But what really gave him victory was his healing factor...he took alot really. Iron Fist manhandled Logan in IF#15. IF and Shang are even or Shang slightly better. Logan got stick by Silver samurai, Spiderwoman does not help him in rankings.

I have explain it dude...healing factor...

Here for my analysis for DC...

1) Shiva - hey she had a hand in training some of DC's best fighters..(Dragon, Cass, Black Canary, even Batman.)

2) Batgirl(Cass)- She did beat Shiva once(but hey she fainted the moment she did). But Recently she struggled against Shiva again. So she is no 2.

2) Richard Dragon- managed to bring Shiva down but hesitated to kill her. He was beaten later. But still 1 cannot take it from him that he could have killed her if he wanted to. He trained Batman.

3) Not sure but Connor Hawke-- Said to be top 5 in DC. Beaten by Shiva...but Stalemated Dragon might place him above Batman. But Dinah did said when Savant kicked her that Savant's kick was Conner Hawke good but almost Batman. Hawke did not have good showings too. Most of the time saved by Olli.

I not sure where to put The Question and Black Canary.

Originally posted by joesha28
Here for my analysis for DC...

1) Shiva - hey she had a hand in training some of DC's best fighters..(Dragon, Cass, Black Canary, even Batman.)

2) Batgirl(Cass)- She did beat Shiva once(but hey she fainted the moment she did). But Recently she struggled against Shiva again. So she is no 2.

2) Richard Dragon- managed to bring Shiva down but hesitated to kill her. He was beaten later. But still 1 cannot take it from him that he could have killed her if he wanted to. He trained Batman.

3) Not sure but Connor Hawke-- Said to be top 5 in DC. Beaten by Shiva...but Stalemated Dragon might place him above Batman. But Dinah did said when Savant kicked her that Savant's kick was Conner Hawke good but almost Batman. Hawke did not have good showings too. Most of the time saved by Olli.

I not sure where to put The Question and Black Canary.

yes

Originally posted by joesha28
yes

Originally posted by King KAM
hes a good fighter?

dude he is...trained by Shiva herself...later stages she used him to gauge herself.

Originally posted by joesha28
Here for my analysis for DC...

1) Shiva - hey she had a hand in training some of DC's best fighters..(Dragon, Cass, Black Canary, even Batman.)

2) Batgirl(Cass)- She did beat Shiva once(but hey she fainted the moment she did). But Recently she struggled against Shiva again. So she is no 2.

2) Richard Dragon- managed to bring Shiva down but hesitated to kill her. He was beaten later. But still 1 cannot take it from him that he could have killed her if he wanted to. He trained Batman.

3) Not sure but Connor Hawke-- Said to be top 5 in DC. Beaten by Shiva...but Stalemated Dragon might place him above Batman. But Dinah did said when Savant kicked her that Savant's kick was Conner Hawke good but almost Batman. Hawke did not have good showings too. Most of the time saved by Olli.

I not sure where to put The Question and Black Canary.

Funny thing is, Batman's stalemated Dragon before.
Defeated Batgirl with one hand before.
And defeated Shiva.

And Batgirl defeated Shiva because Shiva wanted to lose, that much is known. Still an impressive feat.
O.o

Batman did defeat Shiva--twice...first the death in the family issue where he was stalmating her and beat her thanks to robin(jason todd). second..was that Supes/bats issue where he beat her in 6 panels but not sure if she was mind controlled. Bu the case is Shiva has never beaten Bruce too. Which says lots abt him.

Originally posted by Juntai
Funny thing is, Batman's stalemated Dragon before.
Defeated Batgirl with one hand before.
And defeated Shiva.

The Richard Dragon fight was a misunderstanding by Batman. Dragon wasn't trying to hurt him. Batman was knocked out of the Shiva vs. Richard Dragon fight really really fast.

He beat Batgirl directly after she lost her body reading powers. That's actually where we learn that he knows 127 martial arts. (he gives Batgirl a CD that contains him giving instructions on the basics of 127 different styles) And he's never beaten a fully functioning Shiva by himself. Once Robin distracted her after a pretty long fight, the next time she was mind controlled. (as said before me) Her ecord against him is much better than vice versa.

I'm going to count out uber martial artists... Karnak, Mantis, Gamora, people like that. They don't belong in a street level classification, as most of them can at LEAST stand up to Iron Man level guys and do very well. I'm also excluding more powerful people like WW and Champion, who are very good martial artists, but not human by any stretch of the word.

My list...

1. Shiva- Is anyone EVER portrayed as more deadly than Shiva? She's like... the ultimate goal in DC for aspiring martial artists. Hell, Connor wouldn't HAVE a reputation if he hadn't stalemated her.

2. Batgirl- Quickly becoming God... Reads bodies better than anyone. She's Deathstroke lite or Daredevil v2.0, basically. Uber skills, uber senses, and Flashlike blurs for when she runs.

3. Richard Dragon- Now, if he weren't dead, he'd beat out Batgirl. But in the end, she survived where he didn't. He's master sensei to like... everyone in DC though. And he IS known as the best in the world...

4-5. Shang Chi/Temugin- Yeah, Marvel's Shiva isn't quite as impressive as the real deal. He's done some crazy stuff, but his lack of appearances with other well known fighters in Marvel hurts him. Temugin could quite possibly beat him out, but I really don't see him matching Richard Dragon.

6. Deathstroke- Depower him all you want, he'll still own the crap out of anyone who you throw at him. A writer compared him to Lady Shiva in a supersoldier body, but his physical advantages make him harder to judge in a depowered state, so I put him here.

7-10 tie. Black Panther/Batman/Captain America/Daredevil- I really can't give advantages to any one of these 4- They're close enough to equal that they'll each take 5/10 against any of the others. Each has some kind of tiny advantage over the others, but none has any big edge. As far as I'm concerned, they're all but interchangable when it comes to h2h.

hey where's
Iron Fist or Connor Hawke...Black Canary

Karate Kid kills all of them in DC.....period

Originally posted by joesha28
hey where's
Iron Fist or Connor Hawke...Black Canary

Below that list... Connor's only claim to fame is stalemating Shiva. Not even beating her, he just survived. Impressive, but Batman's done the same, and even better. Iron Fist hasn't impressed me much, though I can't say I've seen a whole lot of him. Black Canary's good, but again, I don't see her beating those last 4 on my list, so she doesn't make my top 10.

Iron Fist stalemated Shang Chi and he was not giving his 100%. He defeated Wolverine in 1 on 1 and than defeated Wolvie-Nightcrawler-Colossus together in Iron Fist #15. He defeated Sabretooth. Stalemated Iron Man.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Karate Kid kills all of them in DC.....period

Meh, I'm not counting him. Or Mantis, or Karnak, or Gamora, or Batman 1 Million, etc. Many of them could probably take my entire list by themselves... All of them hang with herald level beings, so I don't really see them being grouped with the likes of Batman and Captain America. They're just way too godly.

Originally posted by joesha28
Iron Fist stalemated Shang Chi and he was not giving his 100%. He defeated Wolverine in 1 on 1 and than defeated Wolvie-Nightcrawler-Colossus together in Iron Fist #15. He defeated Sabretooth. Stalemated Iron Man.

Originally posted by joesha28
Iron Fist stalemated Shang Chi and he was not giving his 100%. He defeated Wolverine in 1 on 1 and than defeated Wolvie-Nightcrawler-Colossus together in Iron Fist #15. He defeated Sabretooth. Stalemated Iron Man.

Well shit... He's a beast then. Probably Shang Chi-ish levels? I really don't know, but he sounds quite good.

ok we are talking about best skills id say batman,cause of his different styles,but in no way do i think he could beat people like cap,bp,dd, but i do think batman has the best martial arts training....

Gamora would own almost every martial artist mentioned in this thread (execpt for Karate Kid)

Originally posted by Dizzle
The Richard Dragon fight was a misunderstanding by Batman. Dragon wasn't trying to hurt him. Batman was knocked out of the Shiva vs. Richard Dragon fight really really fast.

He beat Batgirl directly after she lost her body reading powers. That's actually where we learn that he knows 127 martial arts. (he gives Batgirl a CD that contains him giving instructions on the basics of 127 different styles) And he's never beaten a fully functioning Shiva by himself. Once Robin distracted her after a pretty long fight, the next time she was mind controlled. (as said before me) Her ecord against him is much better than vice versa.

I'm going to count out uber martial artists... Karnak, Mantis, Gamora, people like that. They don't belong in a street level classification, as most of them can at LEAST stand up to Iron Man level guys and do very well. I'm also excluding more powerful people like WW and Champion, who are very good martial artists, but not human by any stretch of the word.

My list...

1. Shiva- Is anyone EVER portrayed as more deadly than Shiva? She's like... the ultimate goal in DC for aspiring martial artists. Hell, Connor wouldn't HAVE a reputation if he hadn't stalemated her.

2. Batgirl- Quickly becoming God... Reads bodies better than anyone. She's Deathstroke lite or Daredevil v2.0, basically. Uber skills, uber senses, and Flashlike blurs for when she runs.

3. Richard Dragon- Now, if he weren't dead, he'd beat out Batgirl. But in the end, she survived where he didn't. He's master sensei to like... everyone in DC though. And he IS known as the best in the world...

4-5. Shang Chi/Temugin- Yeah, Marvel's Shiva isn't quite as impressive as the real deal. He's done some crazy stuff, but his lack of appearances with other well known fighters in Marvel hurts him. Temugin could quite possibly beat him out, but I really don't see him matching Richard Dragon.

6. Deathstroke- Depower him all you want, he'll still own the crap out of anyone who you throw at him. A writer compared him to Lady Shiva in a supersoldier body, but his physical advantages make him harder to judge in a depowered state, so I put him here.

7-10 tie. Black Panther/Batman/Captain America/Daredevil- I really can't give advantages to any one of these 4- They're close enough to equal that they'll each take 5/10 against any of the others. Each has some kind of tiny advantage over the others, but none has any big edge. As far as I'm concerned, they're all but interchangable when it comes to h2h.

I have a few problems with this.

One Dragon isn't dead. He was resurrected right after Shiva killed him. And Batgirl didn't really succeed where he failed. Dragon had Shiva dead to rights until their fight was interrupted and Shiva turned the tides with the Leopards Blow. I have trouble buying into Shiva vs Batgirl fights, until Shiva tries to use the Leopard blow it is my opinion she isn't trying and has an ulterior motive behind losing.

Second and the worst of all his your listing of DS. Sixth? He is nothing but an average fighter. Winter Green is a better fighter then he is, his ex-wife Addie was more skilled then he was and even Pam appeared to be more skilled then Slade with out his powers. With out his powers DS hit on one some girl in a bar and got the crap beat out of him by a couple of drunk guys. I have no idea why people get the idea that Slade is some uber h2h combatant, it just isn't the case and thats the very reason Batman, Nightwing and Bronze Tiger have held their own against him (Nightwing only did it twice but the times he did he did it well)