Magneto vs. Doomsday

oh and didn't black give supes an apparent stroke?? hey demi, could mags do THAT to supes too?

Originally posted by Juntai
He DID take over Doomsday, but only for a moment, and Doomsday became immune, then killed I'm pretty sure.. Steel and Mongul. They didn't even get out of the ROOM before Manchester lost his hold on Doomsday.

Manchester dominated an entire city of villains in Ending Battle. That's impressive. Holding Doomsday for a moment, when Waverider couldn't do it, that was impressive. Editing memories so well, a mental scan from Martian Manhunter[Capable of touching all minds on the planet at once.] is impressive. Dominating people FROM THE DEAD, and then using his TK/TP through them, that's impressive.

Except none of the villains were telepathic, so it's no more impressive than dominating a group of janitors - they had no means to resist. Magneto was able to jam/control the minds of TELEPATHS - people capable of fighting back against mental control, and he did it against three of the premier Marvel telepaths at once.

So which is more impressive - dominating non-telepathic minds or dominating MULTIPLE telepathic minds?

Originally posted by leonidas
so what IS the extent of mag's telepathy? is it a new ability, seperate from his magnetic power? did it sort of just 'show up one day??'

god i hate all these flippin power-ups. bless you scarlet witch . . .

He has two means of mind control - one of them is through his secondary mutation of telepathy which was enhanced. The other was by directly manipulating the synapses in the brain and the electrical impulses, which does the same thing telepathy does. if one fails, the other succeeds.

Is Magneto stong enough to mind control DD?

Originally posted by demigawd
Except none of the villains were telepathic, so it's no more impressive than dominating a group of janitors - they had no means to resist. Magneto was able to jam/control the minds of TELEPATHS - people capable of fighting back against mental control, and he did it against three of the premier Marvel telepaths at once.

So which is more impressive - dominating non-telepathic minds or dominating MULTIPLE telepathic minds?

He has two means of mind control - one of them is through his secondary mutation of telepathy which was enhanced. The other was by directly manipulating the synapses in the brain and the electrical impulses, which does the same thing telepathy does. if one fails, the other succeeds.

He controlled hundreds of villains, how do you know what all their powers were?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He controlled hundreds of villains, how do you know what all their powers were?

I read the story arc...Superman fought no telepathic villains. Xavier and Jean, on the other hand, are among the premier psis in the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by Femi32
Is Magneto stong enough to mind control DD?

I submit that once DD developed a mind and a personality, he became quite weak, mentally.

Originally posted by demigawd
I read the story arc...Superman fought no telepathic villains. Xavier and Jean, on the other hand, are among the premier psis in the Marvel Universe.

I submit that once DD developed a mind and a personality, he became quite weak, mentally.

I have it as well. He fought hundreds of villains. There is absolutely nothing that says if there were or weren't other telepaths in there.

Manchester also just helped redirect DD's hate towards Imperiex. He got the hell out of dodge because he could NOT control Doomsday.

DD on the other hand beat Darkseid, Radiant, Motherbox enhanced Supes, and Waverider back to back. 4 energy wielders, It's definitely not a stretch for Doomsday to violate Mags field easily by manipulating it like he did to the others.

Originally posted by demigawd
Magneto was able to jam/control the minds of TELEPATHS - people capable of fighting back against mental control, and he did it against three of the premier Marvel telepaths at once.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I have it as well. He fought hundreds of villains. There is absolutely nothing that says if there were or weren't other telepaths in there.

Manchester also just helped redirect DD's hate towards Imperiex. He got the hell out of dodge because he could NOT control Doomsday.

DD on the other hand beat Darkseid, Radiant, Motherbox enhanced Supes, and Waverider back to back. 4 energy wielders, It's definitely not a stretch for Doomsday to violate Mags field easily by manipulating it like he did to the others.

If they never specifically showed telepathic villains, why would we assume that there were any among them, especially powerful ones like Xavier/Jean?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
😑 When did he control the mind of any telepath... let alone three?

In Eve of Destruction, Magneto shut down Xavier's telepathic powers and turned his mind off. He blocked the telepathy of Xavier/Jean/Psylocke in Fatal Attractions. He did it by controlling the electrical impulses to the brain....the same effect psionically accomplished by telepaths. He would do the same thing to Doomsday.

he creates a blackhole then he throws dd into it or just simple ripps him ino pieces

I don't think DD will be ripped to pieces. He's already adapted to energy.

Originally posted by demigawd
In Eve of Destruction, Magneto shut down Xavier's telepathic powers and turned his mind off. He blocked the telepathy of Xavier/Jean/Psylocke in Fatal Attractions. He did it by controlling the electrical impulses to the brain....the same effect psionically accomplished by telepaths. He would do the same thing to Doomsday.

He says in Eve of Destruction in X-Men #113 "Once you were free Charles I suspect it was a simple matter for you to weave your way into my mind and prevent me from using my powers." And Fatal Attractions occurs before Eve of Destruction. Curiouser and curiouser.

From Fatal Attractions:

Probably not the best story arc to proclaim "Magneto is a more powerful telepath than Manchester Black."

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Magneto apparently "stems the flow of iron" to Xavier's brain. He does not control "electrical impulses" in Eve of Destruction, he does not shut down Xavier's telepathic powers in any direct manner.

Jean specifically said that Magneto shut off Xavier's mind. It's a technique that Magneto developed in Avengers, when he made them all dance for him (and, strangely, made Wanda give him some kind of lapdance...ugh). He also used the technique to undo Doom's mental control of Beast.

He says in Eve of Destruction in X-Men #113 "Once you were free Charles I suspect it was a simple matter for you to weave your way into my mind and prevent me from using my powers."

Of course. Once he was free. Both in both cases, Xavier needed the rest of the X-men to give him time to act, like what Xavier and Jean needed to launch their dual psychic attack on him in Fatal Attractions.

Probably not the best story arc to proclaim "Magneto is a more powerful telepath than Manchester Black."

You'll note that that scene only took place once Magneto stopped fighting the X-men.

Originally posted by demigawd
If they never specifically showed telepathic villains, why would we assume that there were any among them, especially powerful ones like Xavier/Jean?

For exactly the same reason you assume there WEREN'T any.
It's an assumption on your behalf.

All I said was there was no proof either way, so please, don't go spreading more false information on this.

Thanks.

Originally posted by demigawd
Jean specifically said that Magneto shut off Xavier's mind. It's a technique that Magneto developed in Avengers, when he made them all dance for him (and, strangely, made Wanda give him some kind of lapdance...ugh). He also used the technique to undo Doom's mental control of Beast.

I haven't read the Avengers in question so have no comment on it.

Originally posted by demigawd
Of course. Once he was free. Both in both cases, Xavier needed the rest of the X-men to give him time to act, like what Xavier and Jean needed to launch their dual psychic attack on him in Fatal Attractions.

You'll note that that scene only took place once Magneto stopped fighting the X-men.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For exactly the same reason you assume there WEREN'T any.
It's an assumption on your behalf.

All I said was there was no proof either way, so please, don't go spreading more false information on this.

Thanks.

If there's no proof either way, but ALL of the villains shown are non-telepaths, then the better assumption is that there weren't any. Furthermore, since there weren't any shown, there's not even a way to know how much of a feat it is because we don't even know if there were any, much less how powerful they are or are not.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Magneto specifically says that he "stems the flow of iron" so Xavier can "bear silent witness". It says nothing of electrical impulses.

I haven't read the Avengers in question so have no comment on it.
Neither of those incidents show Magneto has telepathic abilities on the level of Manchester Black. Which I thought was your point.

Additionally, there's the "hypno-stare" that he used to control people. So make that three techniques.

Actually, my original point was that Magneto could control Doomsday the same way Manchester could. He doesn't necessarily have to be MORE powerful - but he's controlled minds using various techniques and it stands to reason that it would work on Doomsday, whose newly developed mind is pretty weak.

And like I said, he blocked three telepaths simutaneously in the beginning of Fatal Attractions at the funeral. And blocked them again when he ambushed them on Avalon.

Originally posted by Juntai
Manchester Black only held him for a brief moment, then Doomsday immediately became immune to it, and Doomsday killed the team that released him and Manchester ran.

Originally posted by demigawd
And like I said, he blocked three telepaths simutaneously in the beginning of Fatal Attractions at the funeral. And blocked them again when he ambushed them on Avalon.

Don't go all magnetofront on me with things that never really happened.

Originally posted by demigawd
If there's no proof either way, but ALL of the villains shown are non-telepaths, then the better assumption is that there weren't any. Furthermore, since there weren't any shown, there's not even a way to know how much of a feat it is because we don't even know if there were any, much less how powerful they are or are not.

It's a plentyful feat. He had them all under his total control. Thats hundreds of beings simultaenously including ALIEN minds, shapeshifters...etc. Stop trying to downplay it to try and make Mags look better. Mags is NO telepath.

QUOTE=5812990]Originally posted by demigawd
Actually, my original point was that Magneto could control Doomsday the same way Manchester could. He doesn't necessarily have to be MORE powerful - but he's controlled minds using various techniques and it stands to reason that it would work on Doomsday, whose newly developed mind is pretty weak.. [/QUOTE]

Again, Mags is no telepath. Force of will is one thing. Telepathy is another. Gog wars Doomsday's mind was not weak....where did you get that idea? He was basically highly immune to telepathy before and just added intelligence. Replace DD with Mags versus all those GOGS, and Mags dies in seconds.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
1) Blocking telepathic attack in those incidents was due to strength of will rather than telepathic ability.
2) I don't recall Psylocke [b]even being at the funeral. Jean does not attack him telepathically. Only Xavier. And Xavier manages to "commandeer" Magneto's abilities to deflect debris.

Don't go all magnetofront on me with things that never really happened. [/B]

Did you even read the funeral scene? He BLOCKED their telepathy so they couldn't even see him coming. Him AND the Acolytes AND Avalon were all masked by Magneto. It has nothing to do with strength of will...you can't will yourself to not be seen. Xavier, as always, was only able to act once Magneto was already down due to the Bishop fluke.

And as Storm said, "While we still have our mutant powers, we have no way of consciously accessing them" because of Magneto.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's a plentyful feat. He had them all under his total control. Thats hundreds of beings simultaenously including ALIEN minds, shapeshifters...etc. Stop trying to downplay it to try and make Mags look better. Mags is NO telepath.

Considering how Magneto shut off the telepathic powers of actual telepaths, I'd say it's a moot point. Controlling a bunch of non-telepathic minds isn't much of a feat.

Again, Mags is no telepath. Force of will is one thing. Telepathy is another. Gog wars Doomsday's mind was not weak....where did you get that idea? He was basically highly immune to telepathy before and just added intelligence. Replace DD with Mags versus all those GOGS, and Mags dies in seconds.

First of all, I think a single Gog should easily be able to beat Doomsday, so I take issue with that entire storyline, but beyond that Doomsday was plagued by his sudden humanity and fear, and Superman took advantage of that. It shows a mentally weak constitution because he wasn't used to having a thinking mind and intelligence. Doomsday could evolve past that eventually, but it's good for a win for Magneto.

Originally posted by demigawd
Did you even read the funeral scene? He BLOCKED their telepathy so they couldn't even see him coming. Him AND the Acolytes AND Avalon were all masked by Magneto. It has nothing to do with strength of will...you can't will yourself to not be seen. Xavier, as always, was only able to act once Magneto was already down due to the Bishop fluke.

And as Storm said, "While we still have our mutant powers, we have no way of consciously accessing them" because of Magneto.

Where does Storm say that?

Originally posted by demigawd
Considering how Magneto shut off the telepathic powers of actual telepaths.

Could he do that to Doomsday for more than a few seconds. Could he do that to Doomsday at all?