Magneto vs. Doomsday

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You do not need telepathy to mask yourself to telepathic presence. The general implication you seemed to be making was he fought against telepathic attack and that makes him a telepath. It doesn't.

No, I was naming his mind-control feats and said he has four ways of doing it. Using electro-chemical impulses, using the blood flow of iron, using the "hypno-stare", or using actual telepathy, which he showed when he was able to create an astral form early in the X-men run, and later in Excalibur when he forced Hub to teleport away.

Where does Storm say that?

Funeral scene. They're all frozen. Right after Bishop responds, "But what if those powers aren't consciously activated?". A few pages later...Bishop overloads, breaks free using Magneto's own power, and blasts Magneto.

He didn't shut off their telepathic powers. He stopped Xavier - and only Xavier to my knowledge in Eve of Destruction - from functioning properly using magnetism to affect Xavier's physiology.

Yes, just Xavier in Eve of Destruction. But in Fatal Attractions it was Xavier, Jean and iirc Psylocke was there too. I don't remember the entire cast, but there were multiple telepaths.

Could he do that to Doomsday for more than a few seconds. Could he do that to Doomsday at all?

Considering there are four ways Magneto could do it, I'd say at least one would work, and probably all of them considering Doomsday's new mind is relatively weak and untested.

That said, I acknowledge that SHOULD it fail, Magneto doesn't have very many options afterwards, since Doomsday doesn't have as many exploitable weaknesses as Superman.

Originally posted by demigawd
Considering how Magneto shut off the telepathic powers of actual telepaths, I'd say it's a moot point. Controlling a bunch of non-telepathic minds isn't much of a feat.

To you maybe, but Xavier has problems with Shape shifters, Aliens, and animals. Black controlled hundreds of them simultaneously around the globe, without the aid of anything.

Your point is Moot.

First of all, I think a single Gog should easily be able to beat Doomsday, so I take issue with that entire storyline, but beyond that Doomsday was plagued by his sudden humanity and fear, and Superman took advantage of that. It shows a mentally weak constitution because he wasn't used to having a thinking mind and intelligence. Doomsday could evolve past that eventually, but it's good for a win for Magneto. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your thoughts about GOG unfortunately, are not important as evidence here. The storyline completely showed different. Good luck selling Mags as a telepath now. It doesnt seem like anyones buying in any of your Mags forums.

DD owns Mags in seconds...like practically everyone one else he comes across.

Xavier has NO problem with shape-shifters, aliens or animals. Look at what he did to Gladiator, who's an alien. The Mystique problem Xavier had was retconned to Mystique having a scrambling device. I don't recall Xavier ever attempting to control an animal. But he did merge the thoughts of an entire planet of people and used it to destroy an alien invasion. So your point is moot.

And the bottom line is still that Magneto has the ability to control minds. And more ways of doing so than Black, Xavier, or anyone else. Period. If you don't want to believe it, that's up to you.

Originally posted by demigawd
No, I was naming his mind-control feats and said he has four ways of doing it. Using electro-chemical impulses, using the blood flow of iron, using the "hypno-stare", or using actual telepathy, which he showed when he was able to create an astral form early in the X-men run, and later in Excalibur when he forced Hub to teleport away.

Funeral scene. They're all frozen. Right after Bishop responds, "But what if those powers aren't consciously activated?". A few pages later...Bishop overloads, breaks free using Magneto's own power, and blasts Magneto.

Yes, just Xavier in Eve of Destruction. But in Fatal Attractions it was Xavier, Jean and iirc Psylocke was there too. I don't remember the entire cast, but there were multiple telepaths.

Considering there are four ways Magneto could do it, I'd say at least one would work, and probably all of them considering Doomsday's new mind is relatively weak and untested.

That said, I acknowledge that SHOULD it fail, Magneto doesn't have very many options afterwards, since Doomsday doesn't have as many exploitable weaknesses as Superman.

ii. It says he magnetically grips the iron fibres in their blood to prevent them from moving and using their powers. (Something that makes no sense) but doesn't equate to mind control anyway. He wasn't nullifying their powers telepathically or otherwise. They simply couldn't move at all to use them. Again physiological, not telepathic.

iii. Psylocke wasn't there. It says he's using electromagnetism to block psionics in fatal attractions. No implication of Magneto having telepathy. Irrelevant because Doomsday isn't going to attack him telepathically.

iv. I think I recall some kind of hologram creation, not sure about astral forms. The other "telepathic feat" in Excalibur is paltry.

How well does Doomsday overcome effects on his physiology. Assuming he has a physiology human enough for Magneto to even affect him.

EDIT: Also when was the Mystique thing retconned.

Charles is way in over his head on this one.

xavier would die if he battled Doomsday like manchester black his powers would effect him only for a moment then Doomsday would become immune. Why is people putting him against magneto doomsday has been shown to become immune to stuf like trying to screw with his dna or brain.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
i. I don't recall the hypno-stare, and I haven't seen him doing it electrochemically. Using the blood flow of iron is physiological, and wasn't mind control.

ii. It says he magnetically grips the iron fibres in their blood to prevent them from moving and using their powers. (Something that makes no sense) but doesn't equate to mind control anyway. He wasn't nullifying their powers telepathically or otherwise. They simply couldn't move at all to use them. Again physiological, not telepathic.

iii. Psylocke wasn't there. It says he's using electromagnetism to block psionics in fatal attractions. No implication of Magneto having telepathy. Irrelevant because Doomsday isn't going to attack him telepathically.

iv. I think I recall some kind of hologram creation, not sure about astral forms. The other "telepathic feat" in Excalibur is paltry.

How well does Doomsday overcome effects on his physiology. Assuming he has a physiology human enough for Magneto to even affect him.

EDIT: Also when was the Mystique thing retconned.

Hypno-stare was early X-men, used for the first tme back in the day to control the X-men's parents as a means of setting a trap.

Electro-chemical manipulation was in Avengers when he made them all dance and act silly. He lost because it didn't work on Vision, who doesn't have a brain, and Magneto didn't realize that Vision wasn't human (but Vision was playing along long enough to catch Magneto unawares).

I know that he wasn't using telepathy to block those telepaths. I'm giving examples of various techniques he's used to affect the mind/psysiology of others. No reason to believe it wouldn't work on Doomsday, too.

The Excalibur thing does indeed show conventional telepathy/mind-control, however. So it's another option in his psysiological arsenal. That was my point.

Like I said, given that Manchester was successful in manipulating Doomsday, it stands to reason that Magneto could use one or all of the techniques at his disposal to be successful as well.

Magneto puts up a fight but he isn't winning any other way other than BFR into space.

"Fatal Attractions

Cyclops: The Acolytes?! Jean, how did they-
Jean: -possibly get this close?! Magneto must somewho be using his electronic powers to jam my psionic powers."

Magneto jamed her powers with his electronic powers. That's some useless ability against DD.

"Cannonball: Storm, Ma'am - ah cain't move!
Storm: He is magnetically gripping the iron fibers in our blood, Samuel. We are still possessed of our abilities, we have no way of consciously accessing them."

Gripping the iron fibers. I doubt DD eats cereals for breakfast. He's just a mass with bones. Your heart, brains, and other inner organs is something DD doesn't have. Supes proved that by cutting him open - nothing but mass.

And xmarksthespot is right, Psylocke wasn't even there at the funeral.

DD 7/10.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Magneto puts up a fight but he isn't winning any other way other than BFR into space.

"Fatal Attractions

Cyclops: The Acolytes?! Jean, how did they-
Jean: -possibly get this close?! [b]Magneto must somewho be using his electronic powers to jam my psionic powers."

Magneto jamed her powers with his electronic powers. That's some useless ability against DD.

"Cannonball: Storm, Ma'am - ah cain't move!
Storm: He is magnetically gripping the iron fibers in our blood, Samuel. We are still possessed of our abilities, we have no way of consciously accessing them."

Gripping the iron fibers. I doubt DD eats cereals for breakfast. He's just a mass with bones. Your heart, brains, and other inner organs is something DD doesn't have. Supes proved that by cutting him open - nothing but mass.

And xmarksthespot is right, Psylocke wasn't even there at the funeral.

DD 7/10. [/B]

You just described two of the ways Magneto has used his powers for psysiological effect. There are four, the other two I see you haven't addressed...for good reason.