Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
hmmmm... as you all seem to be ahead of the game I will happily admit defeat... do not, however, think that this means I submit to your rule... You mearly won this round... the war is far from over...
Good man. Most people around here are too arrogant to admit defeat.
“You need your hands cut off so I don't have to read your bullshit fanboyism any longer”
Fanboy am I? Then why did I say that Revan would just barely win against Exar. If I were a fanboy I would have said something more along the lines of “OMG rEvan WtFpwns the Exarz!!!!”
Nice Jawa boy, why don’t you go back to your droids sonny?
“No he didn't! First of all, In KOTOR, he never EVER recieves a Holocron from his tomb. Second of all, Kreia says WHOEVER HAS THE HOLOCRON IS MOST LIKELY DEAD AND THAT THE PERSON WHOM BEARS IT IS UNKNOWN!
You're a dirty liar.”
Its been established that the holocron you helped Lashowe secure in KOTOR was Tulak Hord’s holocron. Since Revan was canonically lightside, after defeating Uthar Wynn, he retrieved the holocron and left Korriban.
“So Kreia said: If you have high influence with me, I shall tell you Revan was powerful in the force.
Exile: But you just told m....
Kreia: NAY! I am all knowing Kreia and my say is Canon say! HUZZAH!”
Heh, Kreia stated that Revan was powerful, far more powerful than then she. She was once a powerful Jedi master and was thus familiar with Exar Kun. If after seeing people like Exar, and still say something like “Looking at him [Revan] was like looking at the heart of the force”, then Revan HAD to be something. His ability with the force is hence far greater than Kreia.
“Every Sith lord does their research and Revan isn't the only one to have learned secrets.”
But he was more proficient with the secrets learned in Korriban than any other Sith Lord. Look at all he was capable of doing, for the first time the Republic was actually loosing a straight out war. Exar was not able to claim as much, he wasn’t WINNING a STRAIGHT out war with the republic.
“Accomplishments
single handedly defeated all the dark jedi in the Star Forge and all the star forge droids
Is it Canon that he murdered all of them? Didn't think so.”
It is canon that Revan was a lightside male Jedi who entered the Star Forge and defeated all it’s droids and dark Jedi.
"He could have had help, like he did with almost everything else in KOTOR."
It states that he fought Mandalore and Yusanis in an epic duel. A duel for either of them would restrict two warriors to using only bare hands. No way in hell would Mandalore and Yusanis permit the use of lightsabers, as that would open a can of whoopass on them. Revan was a Jedi when he fought Mandalore, so he would follow rules. He was a sith lord when he fought Yusanis, but his attachment to the Jedi teachings would still leave in him a sense of chivalry. Revan would have fought Yusanis according to whatever Echani rules set about.
"In my game, Revan sucks the power out of the Republic soldiers as well."
As stated before, I am basing my answers on canon Revan. If he was a Jedi he would never have done anything like that. Class dismissed.
“Like he is the first Sith Lord to win a war... F*ck....”
It was by his strategy alone that they won, not with the help of some lizard troopers. Skillz buddy, skillz.
"It's also irrelevant to this argument"
You missed the point, that apart from all the force knowledge he amassed, he was skilled and multi talented, hence enabling him to learn sith secrets faster than the average Joe, and even the average Exar.
“Facts? I haven't seen any yet”
It’s on the page genius.
“For all you know, he walked around Force storming everyones ass! You have no proof that he can take Exar in a Lightsaber duel AT ALL!”
In order to defeat the ancient Sith you can’t just go in there and ninja them all out. He would have learned some superior force techniques to fight the ancient Sith, perhaps similar to the NJO Luke’s manipulation of black holes or emerald lightening, and mastered lightsaber combat.
“Good. Next step would be for you to shake that Fanboy crap out of your arrogant head.”
Again calling people fanboys won’t get you far. I already told you why I am no fanboy. I for one have stated my facts and expanded on them. Maybe when you grow out of puberty, we can parley like dignified gentlemen. (j/k) 😛
Offers hand to shake. 😎
Fanboy am I? Then why did I say that Revan would just barely win against Exar. If I were a fanboy I would have said something more along the lines of “OMG rEvan WtFpwns the Exarz!!!!”
No, you're a fanboy because you can't proof any of your bullshit opinions.
So if I make genuine arguments that Jar Jar Binks can "barely beat" Marka Ragnos, I'm not a fanboy? Don't be daft.
Its been established that the holocron you helped Lashowe secure in KOTOR was Tulak Hord’s holocron. Since Revan was canonically lightside, after defeating Uthar Wynn, he retrieved the holocron and left Korriban.
And this indicates that he "mastered all 7 forms" or "became the best lightsaber duelist ever" how? It doesn't.
Heh, Kreia stated that Revan was powerful, far more powerful than then she. “Looking at him was like looking at the heart of the force”, remember? His affinity with the force was far greater than Kreia in terms of force mastery.
She never mentioned explicitly anything about Revan's power against her own. And she also mentions that The Exile is superior to Revan.
But he was more proficient with the secrets learned in Korriban than any other Sith Lord. Look at all he was capable of doing, for the first time the Republic was actually loosing a straight out war.
Uh... wtf? Naga Sadow nearly captured Coruscant AND Cinnagar simultaneously, and it was mentioned explicitly that he would have done so if he wasn't backstabbed.
Seperatist forces under Grievous won the Battle of Coruscant, is Grievous the greatest tactical or lightsaber fighter ever?
Exar was not able to claim as much, he wasn’t WINNING a STRAIGHT out war with the republic.
Illogic.
How does a war have anything to do with personal fighting ability? Tarkin won wars. Ackbar was a master strategiest. Are they > Revan?
It is canon that Revan was a lightside male Jedi who entered the Star Forge and defeated all it’s droids and dark Jedi.
The first two are true. The last statement is BS. Not only did Revan have help, it was never canonically confirmed he killed them all.
In my game, Revan sucks the power out of the Republic soldiers as well.As stated before, I am basing my answers on canon Revan. If he was a Jedi he would have never done anything like that. Class dismissed.
If you were using canon, you would only use storyline elements, which means you haven't PROVED a thing. Next.
It was by his strategy alone that they won, not with the help of some lizard troopers. Skillz buddy, skillz.
Did anyone argue he was a tactical genius?
So you mean that Revan's strategy didn't take men to execute? He willed all the Mandalorian's to die? WTF? He had Jedi and Republic forces, they OUTNUMBERED the Mandalorians. Not vice versa.
It’s on the page genius.
Yep, start calling other people idiots when they disprove your facts. You need to prove up.
In order to defeat the ancient Sith you can’t just go in there and ninja them all out. He would have learned some superior force techniques to fight the ancient Sith, perhaps similar to the NJO Luke’s manipulation of black holes or emerald lightening.
Proof? There is none. Canonically, they state the ancient Sith make people of Revan's time look like Children.
Again calling people fanboys won’t get you far. I already told you why I am no fanboy.
Falsely too. Good job.
I for one have stated my facts and expanded on them.
You brought irrelevant facts and didn't do any expanding. And your "expansions" are just false.
Arguing that Revan taking Tulak's holocron means that he's the most powerful lightsaber duelist and/or mastered all seven forms is just plain WRONG.
Many people learned from Yoda, how many of them were stronger than him? Tulak was never even mentioned to know all 7 styles, how does he teach them?
Fallacious arguments won't get you anywhere. When you learn to debate, then we can dance. Until then, leave the stage for the adults.
“No, you're a fanboy because you can't proof any of your bullshit opinions.”
Ahem, what do I care about what you think of my opinions? I have provided proof, don’t explode for no reason friend.
”So if I make genuine arguments that Jar Jar Binks can "barely beat" Marka Ragnos, I'm not a fanboy? Don't be daft.” ”
But I was not stating something as absurd as that. I am not being a fanboy, its just that I am arguing your beliefs on the matter, and now in order to discount the facts that I have portrayed, you call me a fanboy.
All that aside, we are straying from the point. Keep your eyes on the game bub.
“And this indicates that he "mastered all 7 forms" or "became the best lightsaber duelist ever" how? It doesn't.”
Hord was one of the few duelists who lived during a period when the Sith used lightsabers and sith swords. To describe him to you, Hord was an ancient sith lord who was the master of any blade. He wore a mask, and was covered in a cloak that protected his body from attacks, but he never needed to use it. It is known that the best lightsaber duelist created a holocron, which is pretty much THE guide to being the best duelist in the galaxy. Revan found the holocron, and mastered the knowledge imparted within.
“She never mentioned explicitly anything about Revan's power against her own. And she also mentions that The Exile is superior to Revan.”
Implicitly though she mentioned that Revan was great, farther greater than herself.
You misunderstand the Exile compared to Revan. Kreia roughly stated that the Exile was more of an anomaly in the force. Revan though was pure Force PWNage.
“Uh... wtf? Naga Sadow nearly captured Coruscant AND Cinnagar simultaneously, and it was mentioned explicitly that he would have done so if he wasn't backstabbed.”
I don’t care what Naga Sadow did. It’s irrelevant to this argument. I merely stated that Revan is intellectually the superior of Kun.
“How does a war have anything to do with personal fighting ability”
Tactical Jedi war leader means tactical fighter. Revan’s a force tank, but with his intelligence, it adds more to what’s going for him.
“The last statement is BS. Not only did Revan have help, it was never canonically confirmed he killed them all.”
Its in New Essential Chronology as I mentioned before.
“If you were using canon, you would only use storyline elements, which means you haven't PROVED a thing.”
Of course, because a Jedi practically bristling with the light side of the force would sadistically suck the life force of his fellow Jedi comrades. As I stated before, Revan would not have drained the life force of those Jedi.
“He had Jedi and Republic forces, they OUTNUMBERED the Mandalorians.”
You have no idea behind the number of Mandalorians they fought. The Mandalorians were kicking Republic ass before Revan hopped along.
“Yep, start calling other people idiots when they disprove your facts. You need to prove up.”
I have, and its called joking dimwit.. 😛
“Proof? There is none. Canonically, they state the ancient Sith make people of Revan's time look like Children.”
How about the fact that people in PT era weren’t royally F***** from an onslaught of the ancient sith empire? You said that the ancients made people (excluding Revan and possibly exile) of the time look like “children.”
”Arguing that Revan taking Tulak's holocron means that he's the most powerful lightsaber duelist and/or mastered all seven forms is just plain WRONG.”
“Many people learned from Yoda, how many of them were stronger than him?”
If you are referring to the younglings who learned by Yoda, then even you must admit compared to Revan, they are nooblings with respect to skill, and experience. Besides, Tulak, form the facts I have presented above, is far superior to Yoda having mastered sith sword and lightsaber dueling.
“When you learn to debate, then we can dance. Until then, leave the stage for the adults”
When you learn to read points properly and extrapolate maybe I will offer to shake your hand. 😎
Ahem, what do I care about what you think of my opinions? I have provided proof, don’t explode for no reason friend.
Okay, clearly you have a very dense skull, or you're wearing something over it, but...
No, you did not provide any proof.
But I was not stating something as absurd as that.
According to the fanboy, that argument may not be absurd.
I am not being a fanboy, its just that I am arguing your beliefs on the matter, and now in order to discount the facts that I have portrayed, you call me a fanboy.
Yes, the facts that do not prove Revan is Exar's superior. Give it up, either definitively outline what Revan can do and put it on context, or don't bother.
All that aside, we are straying from the point. Keep your eyes on the game bub.
Hey, you were the one that kept dodging my points a while ago.
Hord was one of the few duelists who lived during a period when the Sith used lightsabers and sith swords. To describe him to you, Hord was an ancient sith lord who was the master of any blade.
Bullshit. It was never mentioned in game that Hord lived in a time with both lightsaber and blade. It was never mentioned he was good with a blade at all.
Don't lie to prove a point.
He wore a mask, and was covered in a cloak that protected his body from attacks, but he never needed to use it.
Nor was it stated he never needed to use his cloak.
It is known that the best lightsaber duelist created a holocron, which is pretty much THE guide to being the best duelist in the galaxy. Revan found the holocron, and mastered the knowledge imparted within.
Nope. It never was said that it was "the guide" to being the best duelist in the galaxy.
Also, you haven't proven that learning from the best makes you the best. Until you do, you have no argument.
Implicitly though she mentioned that Revan was great, farther greater than herself.
She never mentioned Revan is "far greater than herself."
Stop lying and bullshitting so you can make a point that doesn't exist. When you bullshit lines so you can win an argument, you know you're being a fanboy.
You misunderstand the Exile compared to Revan. Kreia roughly stated that the Exile was more of an anomaly in the force. Revan though was pure Force PWNage.
Funny. I never heard Kreia go "Revan is force pwnage."
Now you're just making shit up.
I don’t care what Naga Sadow did. It’s irrelevant to this argument. I merely stated that Revan is intellectually the superior of Kun.
Which you can't prove. I pointed out Naga Sadow to indicate your clear lack of knowledge, and your clear inability to reason. Winning a war when you have more resources does not indicate you are the superior.
Hell, I could argue that Revan had an easier time because Kun had all the great Jedi Masters assassinated or killed them.
Tactical Jedi war leader means tactical fighter. Revan’s a force tank, but with his intelligence, it adds more to what’s going for him.
Nowhere is it mentioned that Revan is a force tank. He does not have feats to define where his force power is.
Tactical war leader does not mean tactical fighter. Or Tarkin and Ackbar could beat up anyone in a fist fight. It's clear that's not the case.
Hell, you never addressed that point, you just dodged it each time. It only applies for Revan, right?
Its in New Essential Chronology as I mentioned before.
Give me the page number. I have the newest NEC and I can't find it. Now, it sure seems to show up on Wikipedia, a dubious source.
Of course, because a Jedi practically bristling with the light side of the force would sadistically suck the life force of his fellow Jedi comrades. As I stated before, Revan would not have drained the life force of those Jedi.
And this shows what exactly?
You have no idea behind the number of Mandalorians they fought. The Mandalorians were kicking Republic ass before Revan hopped along.
There are fewer Mandalorians than Republic forces because it was MENTIONED in the storyline that they had fewer men, fewer planets, fewer system, fewer resoruces. Period.
I have, and its called joking dimwit..
No you haven't, and there you go again, thanks for proving my point.
How about the fact that people in PT era weren’t royally F***** from an onslaught of the ancient sith empire? You said that the ancients made people (excluding Revan and possibly exile) of the time look like “children.”
Since when did the PT era even encounted anything of the Ancient Sith?
I'll give you a hint: never.
If you are referring to the younglings who learned by Yoda, then even you must admit compared to Revan, they are nooblings with respect to skill, and experience. Besides, Tulak, form the facts I have presented above, is far superior to Yoda having mastered sith sword and lightsaber dueling.
Yes, because no one ever learned from Yoda except those Younglings depicted in the movies, right?
Way to go from strict constructionist where you refuse to extrapolate towards where you make every extrapolation for Revan, right? Hypocrite.
When you learn to read points properly and extrapolate maybe I will offer to shake your hand.
There's a difference between basic logical deduction towards extrapolation of something that barely has anything to do with the facts. What you're doing isn't logic, it's apparently faith in the almighty Revan.
Way to go slugger!