Zoom vs. JLA/Avengers/Fantastic Four

Originally posted by Draco69
Did you not read my "NO PIS/CIS" rule? Your arguement is based on the fact that Zoom IS on PIS/CIS

And no, Wonder Woman catching him with her lasso isn't PIS. She kicked the rocks at him at superspeed so he'd have to dodge and she could predict where he would move to, she got ahead of him like she pointed out she'd need to earlier, she used her head.

I think that with the JLA having gone up against Zoom before they would probably manage to take him down. J'onn could just go intangible and mess with his mind can't he, and Wonder Woman and Superman could use the same trick of forcing him to move into their attacks

Originally posted by Wally West
No its not, my argument is the only way someone could possibly believe Zoom can win this is if they insisted he could only be hit due to PIS and therefore its not allowed and he wins this entire thing without getting hit and its not open to debate at all. Its such a weak argument to blindly cry PIS if Zoom got hit and insist hes invincible, assume no PIS for every character on that list too and Zoom goes down hard, hes out of his league.

That's the entire point of this forum. To have characters battle each other without the restrictions of PIS or CIS.

Answer me this: How can ANYONE manage to land a hit on a man who moves in a time-frozen world. The team will be frozen in time while Zoom is free to move around at lightspeeds IN the said time-frozen world. Superman certainly can't hit him. He was frozen too when he and Flash battled.

Originally posted by Wally West
And no, Wonder Woman catching him with her lasso isn't PIS. She kicked the rocks at him at superspeed so he'd have to dodge and she could predict where he would move to, she got ahead of him like she pointed out she'd need to earlier, she used her head.

I HATE arguing against my favorite character....

But this is what we indeed call PIS. If Zoom was busy gloating or wasting his time conversing with Zoom than Diana would've been dead as a doornail. Without PIS, Zoom would have landed 1000 IMPs, vibrate his hand through her skull and ripped her limb from limp. Instead, somehow a BLIND Wonder Woman managed to tag with her lasso. The lasso would have been frozen to Zoom as everything else. Including those rocks he need to "dodge". It was a crap fight. Although it DID show how durable WW is.... 😛

For the purposes of THIS battle, Zoom is completely and utterly bloodlusted. That means no conversations, no gloating and certainly no situation where Zoom is slowed to a crawl.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I think that with the JLA having gone up against Zoom before they would probably manage to take him down. J'onn could just go intangible and mess with his mind can't he, and Wonder Woman and Superman could use the same trick of forcing him to move into their attacks

Unlikely. Imagine a time-frozen world. In that time-frozen world, gravity, light, molecules, and energy itself is frozen. And in that time-frozen world, the heroes are frozen as well.

Now imagine in that same said time-frozen world is person capable of moving at lightspeeds (and more) in the time-frozen world.

If YOU were able to move around when time is frozen, than you would be nearly impossible to hit. Even from Superman since he'll be a statue to you. Now imagine if you were capable of Flash-like speed when time is frozen. You're simply BEYOND speed. You can't be hit without some sort of miracle.

Originally posted by Draco69
Unlikely. Imagine a time-frozen world. In that time-frozen world, gravity, light, molecules, and energy itself is frozen. And in that time-frozen world, the heroes are frozen as well.

Now imagine in that same said time-frozen world is person capable of moving at lightspeeds (and more) in the time-frozen world.

If YOU were able to move around when time is frozen, than you would be nearly impossible to hit. Even from Superman since he'll be a statue to you. Now imagine if you were capable of Flash-like speed when time is frozen. You're simply BEYOND speed. You can't be hit without some sort of miracle.

Woops. Looked back at some old Flash issues. Forgot that he moves above lightspeed when time is frozen. His powers sorta remind me of the Sentry. Since the Sentry's molecules exist in the future theorically he is faster than the fastest. The time frozen thing already makes Zoom faster than anyonle else, plus with his super-speed takes them all out

Originally posted by Draco69
Unlikely. Imagine a time-frozen world. In that time-frozen world, gravity, light, molecules, and energy itself is frozen. And in that time-frozen world, the heroes are frozen as well.

Now imagine in that same said time-frozen world is person capable of moving at lightspeeds (and more) in the time-frozen world.

If YOU were able to move around when time is frozen, than you would be nearly impossible to hit. Even from Superman since he'll be a statue to you. Now imagine if you were capable of Flash-like speed when time is frozen. You're simply BEYOND speed. You can't be hit without some sort of miracle.

The only Below Skyfather character who can realistically think of beating him is Photon / I.e. current T.Bolts Gennis Vehl. His 'Omniversal/Quantuam' precognition allows him to know exactly where Zoom Will move. B4 Battle starts he create wormhole into a blackhole which Zoom falls into. Zoom looses, you can't beat that !

Originally posted by Wally West
No its not, my argument is the only way someone could possibly believe Zoom can win this is if they insisted he could only be hit due to PIS and therefore its not allowed and he wins this entire thing without getting hit and its not open to debate at all. Its such a weak argument to blindly cry PIS if Zoom got hit and insist hes invincible, assume no PIS for every character on that list too and Zoom goes down hard, hes out of his league.

And no, Wonder Woman catching him with her lasso isn't PIS. She kicked the rocks at him at superspeed so he'd have to dodge and she could predict where he would move to, she got ahead of him like she pointed out she'd need to earlier, she used her head.

God Rucka is a great writer, but that comic was sooooo badly writen on Zoom's behalf.

Wonder Women kicking rocks at him shoulda looked like the bullets to Neo at the end of Matrix.

Theres nothing no matter what Zoom did to stop and gloat whatever, that Wonder Women could do to hurt Zoom.

Everything shoulda been easily dodged.

I didn't like how the artist did him either.

He drew him like he was teleporting.

Zoom is best portrayed in the Flash books.IMO

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The only Below Skyfather character who can realistically think of beating him is Photon / I.e. current T.Bolts Gennis Vehl. His 'Omniversal/Quantuam' precognition allows him to know exactly where Zoom Will move. B4 Battle starts he create wormhole into a blackhole which Zoom falls into. Zoom looses, you can't beat that !

The way it sounds like Zoom's powers should operate, as soon as the fight starts they'd all be demolished by the accumulated power of an infinite number of blows.

And sonic booms.

What I think is cool that he can do is throw anything at them and it'd hit harder then bullets and such.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
So he is Flash Prime? 😛

Seriosly then NOONE can beat him....or at least should be able to, if he can move that fast. Is there any weakness to him that will slow him down?

If Spidey and the Flash work together, easily, assuming the Spider-sense would be benefited by the speed-force.

Flash grants Spidey some speed(can he still do that? Heh) and Spidey gets a warning where Flash will "be" when he materializes, and Spidey knocks him out.

If the Spidersense doesn't get any help from the speed force, the match is much longer.

He doesn't move at superspeed. He moves forward in time by seconds, making it LOOK like he has superspeed when in fact he is arriving at his location seconds after he left by simply cutting out the travel. If someone can figure out where he'll end up before he has a chance to figure out their plan, they can hit him. WW for example is such a well-trained fighter she can easily deduce her opponents next move, and thus hits Zoom.

Originally posted by MuffinmanMike
He doesn't move at superspeed. He moves forward in time by seconds, making it LOOK like he has superspeed when in fact he is arriving at his location seconds after he left by simply cutting out the travel. If someone can figure out where he'll end up before he has a chance to figure out their plan, they can hit him. WW for example is such a well-trained fighter she can easily deduce her opponents next move, and thus hits Zoom.

Then why in the flash books did they always draw him running and he even said hes the fastest man alive?

If it wasn't superspeed then they sould just draw him walking.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
Then why in the flash books did they always draw him running and he even said hes the fastest man alive?

If it wasn't superspeed then they sould just draw him walking.

Wasn't it explained he was running at "superspeed" by eliminating the time it took him to arrive at a location, hence his lack of "speed force" reliance?

Originally posted by MuffinmanMike
Wasn't it explained he was running at "superspeed" by eliminating the time it took him to arrive at a location, hence his lack of "speed force" reliance?

Isn't running in general a way of eliminating time it takes to get to a location?