Originally posted by jrodslam
How are we so sure Bats is better than Cap in h2h?Cap's been training since the late 30's early 40's. Bruce wasnt even born yet. Cap has a 20 year training advantage over Bats.
No, he hasn't. He only had a few months of training. He wasn't even a worthy army recruit. The scientists recruited him for the Super-Serum DURING WWII and Steve became a super-soldier. Steve couldn't train BEFORE the serum because he was pathetically weak. He only learned the essentials like gymnastics and judo boxing. He than got into the war. He got frozen. 50 some years later....
How can Steve have a twenty-year training advantage when he was FROZEN for the amount of time?
Originally posted by Draco69
No, he hasn't. He only had a few months of training. He wasn't even a worthy army recruit. The scientists recruited him for the Super-Serum DURING WWII and Steve became a super-soldier. Steve couldn't train BEFORE the serum because he was pathetically weak. He only learned the essentials like gymnastics and judo boxing. He than got into the war. He got frozen. 50 some years later....How can Steve have a twenty-year training advantage when he was FROZEN for the amount of time?
I thought Cap recieved extensive training after getting the SSS THEN was sent into war. The SSS doesnt automatically give you fighting skills. You are right though. He weas frozen for a long period of time. Was it 50 years?
Originally posted by jrodslam
Trained with the enhancement yea, but that also means that Cap is training longer due to not getting tired AND training 20+ years before Bats.
trained longer does not mean better. Bats excuetion of moves tend to be better (hey he hanged on to Batgirl in h2h). He has those death moves (esp leopard blow). He cld out think a better fighter too.
Originally posted by Draco69
No, he hasn't. He only had a few months of training. He wasn't even a worthy army recruit. The scientists recruited him for the Super-Serum DURING WWII and Steve became a super-soldier. Steve couldn't train BEFORE the serum because he was pathetically weak. He only learned the essentials like gymnastics and judo boxing. He than got into the war. He got frozen. 50 some years later....How can Steve have a twenty-year training advantage when he was FROZEN for the amount of time?
I just did some looking around and it seems Cap was only frozen for 20 years. So starting from the time he was revived, hes only had months of extensive training. I may be mistaken but Bats was just a kid around the time Cap came back right? If so, then still has more fighting experiencec and training to a higher degree than Bats.
Originally posted by joesha28
trained longer does not mean better. Bats excuetion of moves tend to be better (hey he hanged on to Batgirl in h2h). He has those death moves (esp leopard blow). He cld out think a better fighter too.
Trained longer does mean better in a way. Especially when you dont tire. That gives you more of a chance to practice execution, style, finese all without the worry of fatigue. I wouldnt doubt that Cap knows death moves, but even if he did its not like hed ever use them. Cap is probably the smartest h2h combatant in Marvel. He usually doesnt have to rely on out-thinking a better fighter because he usually IS the better fighter.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I thought Cap recieved extensive training after getting the SSS THEN was sent into war. The SSS doesnt automatically give you fighting skills. You are right though. He weas frozen for a long period of time. Was it 50 years?
I thought it was 30 something... Plus the fact that Batman started training something like another 15 years earlier in life than Cap did. For total time "alive" (as in not frozen) they're about the same age. Batman just started way the heck earlier, and kept it up for way the heck longer.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I just did some looking around and it seems Cap was only frozen for 20 years. So starting from the time he was revived, hes only had months of extensive training. I may be mistaken but Bats was just a kid around the time Cap came back right? If so, then still has more fighting experiencec and training to a higher degree than Bats.
No. You're thinking in REAL time. Of course, he officially came back in the 60s. In COMIC time however he only came back maybe for a decade and a half going by youngsters age.
And he didn't even have TIME to train. Soon as he was unfrozen, the government was recruiting ass, he was leading the Avengers and of course fighting supervillains right and left. Steve is still (technically) the same age as Batman. You're forgetting he came back around the time the Avengers first formed. Are you insinuating the Wasp is really an old cracker twenty years older than Batman?
Originally posted by jrodslam
Trained longer does mean better in a way. Especially when you dont tire. That gives you more of a chance to practice execution, style, finese all without the worry of fatigue. I wouldnt doubt that Cap knows death moves, but even if he did its not like hed ever use them. Cap is probably the smartest h2h combatant in Marvel. He usually doesnt have to rely on out-thinking a better fighter because he usually IS the better fighter.
I typed out a response to this, and then realized I'd said it all in Cap vs. Batman before... I vote we stick to Bats and Panther from here on in.
Wasn't Panther primarily trained in a single style of combat? More styles does not equal victory, but no single art is perfect. Batman's versatile as hell. There's also the point that of the 3, Panther would be the busiest of all of them, when to comes to non combat related matters. So while he may have trained for the same amount of time, he had to learn all that other stuff too... Y'know, being royalty and all that jazz.
Originally posted by Dizzle
I typed out a response to this, and then realized I'd said it all in Cap vs. Batman before... I vote we stick to Bats and Panther from here on in.Wasn't Panther primarily trained in a single style of combat? More styles does not equal victory, but no single art is perfect. Batman's versatile as hell. There's also the point that of the 3, Panther would be the busiest of all of them, when to comes to non combat related matters. So while he may have trained for the same amount of time, he had to learn all that other stuff too... Y'know, being royalty and all that jazz.
"Forget martial arts for now, T'challa. Now we learn about making a Negative Zone projector from a toaster. You may want to go to gym to keep in shape because this gonna be a LONG lesson..."
Originally posted by Draco69
"Forget martial arts for now, T'challa. Now we learn about making a Negative Zone projector from a toaster. You may want to go to gym to keep in shape because this gonna be a LONG lesson..."
See, Batman had HIS comic book science downloaded directly into his brain... Or he took a LOT of acid in a SHORT amount of time. I can't decide yet.
Originally posted by Dizzle
I thought it was 30 something... Plus the fact that Batman started training something like another 15 years earlier in life than Cap did. For total time "alive" (as in not frozen) they're about the same age. Batman just started way the heck earlier, and kept it up for way the heck longer.
What year was Bats born? Either way, youre right about the total time "alive" (as in not frozen) they're about the same age. But how has Bats kept it up for longer? Cap was revived in the mid 60's i believe. How old was Bats in the mid 60's(comic age)?
Originally posted by jrodslamthat was actually a great post my man.......
Trained longer does mean better in a way. Especially when you dont tire. That gives you more of a chance to practice execution, style, finese all without the worry of fatigue. I wouldnt doubt that Cap knows death moves, but even if he did its not like hed ever use them. Cap is probably the smartest h2h combatant in Marvel. He usually doesnt have to rely on out-thinking a better fighter because he usually IS the better fighter.
Originally posted by Draco69
No. You're thinking in REAL time. Of course, he officially came back in the 60s. In COMIC time however he only came back maybe for a decade and a half going by youngsters age.And he didn't even have TIME to train. Soon as he was unfrozen, the government was recruiting ass, he was leading the Avengers and of course fighting supervillains right and left. Steve is still (technically) the same age as Batman. You're forgetting he came back around the time the Avengers first formed. Are you insinuating the Wasp is really an old cracker twenty years older than Batman?
Naw, im not thinking in REAL time. Im thinking in Comic time. Or maybe a mixture of both. In comic time, Cap got frozen in 45 and Bats wasnt even born yet. In comic time Cap came back in mid 60's with Avengers and such. Mid 60's comic time for Bats was when he was how old?
Although he was doing government things and joined up with the Avengers as soon as he was unfrozen, doesnt mean that he wasnt getting any training in on the side. Technically, he ISNT the same age as Bats because he was born in the 30's. Im not saying Wasp is 20 years older than Batman, but in the comic world she is around his same age. In REAL LIFE time going by appearance, Batman is 24 years older than her since hes been around(real life time) since 1939.
Originally posted by Dizzle
I typed out a response to this, and then realized I'd said it all in Cap vs. Batman before... I vote we stick to Bats and Panther from here on in.
Youre right.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Wasn't Panther primarily trained in a single style of combat? More styles does not equal victory, but no single art is perfect. Batman's versatile as hell. There's also the point that of the 3, Panther would be the busiest of all of them, when to comes to non combat related matters. So while he may have trained for the same amount of time, he had to learn all that other stuff too... Y'know, being royalty and all that jazz.
I agree.
ok it would go to panther his blows would land heavy and batman wont be fast enough to effectivly land blows.As far as for bp vs cap cap is faster stronger a better fighter a better leader fights for a higher cause cap would own bp.daredevil can beat bp aswell in hand to hand no weapons and all these guys would own batman in hand to hand with no weapons .......
Originally posted by jrodslam
What year was Bats born? Either way, youre right about the total time "alive" (as in not frozen) they're about the same age. But how has Bats kept it up for longer? Cap was revived in the mid 60's i believe. How old was Bats in the mid 60's(comic age)?
In OUR time. For heaven's sake if THAT were true, Iron Man, Wasp and Spider-Man must all be pushing forty or fifty....