thanos v thor w/belt of strength: fist fight only!

Originally posted by leonidas
last thing in closing -- you claimed once that you accepted bloodlust supes could hit bats and bats survive. what's the problem with accepting this thor fighting thanos or vice versa?

and the blast that laid out the watch was that -- a blast. he didn't finish them off with strength. so where is the evidence you required of me to prove that thor's strength was really amped by the gem? without evidence i suppose its 10x his strength, maybe less depending on who you thought was winning.

1. I would NOT accept batman going head to head and thrashing bloodlusted superman all over the place. That would make no sense in comic world.

Everyone has insane durability, at least up to KO, in comic world. So if batman survives a 100000etc ton blow, that's fine with me.

Everyone does not have the ability to physically match someone dozens of times stronger than them, even in comic world. When spider-man beats rhino, he does not just run up and start slugging.

2. Thor blasted strange and warlock by causing feedback in their powers. The rest was pure physical power. For example, he 1-shotted surfer with power gem, while he didn't even manage to KO him with plain WM (he would ahve eventually, in all likelihood, but he couldn't do it in 1 blow). And he took out 3-4 of the watch (including two class 100s) with one swing. There was a clear and vast difference in power. And it's noted in narrative.

Thor with wm (but no power gem) and SS fight for an entire comic. SS is definitely losing, but he's taking blows, and at one point is even wrestling with him hands on hands, and doing reasonably well.

In contrast, this is all it took thor to beat ss with the power gem:

I should point out there IS an earlier blast from mjolnir that surfer blocks with a forcefield. But the power gem has not been shown to amp energy blasts, and in any event the above is the first and only blow that actually landed.

<<You can't really point to any examples that show, for example, that the power gem does not grant limitless strength.>>

nor can you point to a single example -- hyperbolic narration aside -- showing it does. hulk has infinite strength potential also, but i can't claim he can wield it because he's never been shown. thor fought a mindless hulk to a standstill, a hulk thanos himself seems to have no desire to battle.

meh, i thought about replying to the rest, but i really can't be bothered to keep this going for another 10 pages, which i and you certainly could do. it's spining its wheels. but i will say it hasn't been boring.

<<You can't really point to any examples that show, for example, that the power gem does not grant limitless strength.>>

to rephrase -- i also can't prove that there isn't an invisible dragon in your garage.

very last -- TRULY last -- point. it's just that the way you think really befuddles me. you say you are fine so long as comics have internal consistency, but that can't apply real world logic. and yet you are fanatically defending these numbers, as though math -- the ultimate real world tool of logic -- can be used to define what are ever-changing characters, open to writers' interpretation. even thor saying wm is 10x regular strength is silly. how does thor know quantifiably that it IS 10x reg level?

applying real world math and tools to these situations cannot work in the end because inconsistencies will occur. deifferent writers have different takes on characters. you can at best make generalities. if thanos fought darkseid, you REALLY think thanos would be shown to be 100x superior to him?? no chance. so is that pis? i don't think so.

it's comics. and math, where terms like infinite power are thrown around constantly, just can't be applied.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B
nor can you point to a single example -- hyperbolic narration aside -- showing it does. hulk has infinite strength potential also, but i can't claim he can wield it because he's never been shown. thor fought a mindless hulk to a standstill, a hulk thanos himself seems to have no desire to battle.
[/B]

I just pointed to examples. But you ignored me.

And in any event, you have the burden of proof. You are saying marvel is wrong every time they describe the gem, and that one of odin's asgardian trinkets (belt of strength) is in fact stronger than a gem described as bearing a fundamental force of the universe. You need to find examples to prove this proposition. I do not have to find examples to prove anything when I am taking marvel's words at face value.

And for someone who keeps insisting a few lines of text shouldn't amount to anything, you sure seem focused on thanos saying he wanted to avoid the hulk ONE TIME. The difference here is: (1) that line can just as easily be interpreted to mean avoided out of nuisance, as avoided out of fear; and (2) thanos has demonstrated on numerous occassions vastly more power than hulk, crushing him with physical blows and here with an energy blast:

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It's worth noting that in this pic, thanos is trapped in a pocket dimension that has supposedly vastly weakened him by cutting off his supply of cosmic energy. And he literally incinerates him. And yet you continue to get hung up on one word from IG saga? (I should point out that regenerated hulk+nate grey later do drive him back into the pocket dimension after hulk accidentally breaks him free. But it's not as if this is a test of strength -- nate surprises him by amping hulk, then hulk knocks him back in. And thanos is weakened by his time in the pocket dimension.)

Of course, thanos didn't avoid the in-betweener, runner, or champion in the IG saga. And he purposefully sought on tyrant for a fight in the tyrant storyline. Are you saying that hulk is more powerful than all of those? After all, thanos "avoided" the hulk, yet he purposefully engaged these guys, and did quite well in all of the fights?

Originally posted by leonidas
<<You can't really point to any examples that show, for example, that the power gem does not grant limitless strength.>>

to rephrase -- i also can't prove that there isn't an invisible dragon in your garage.

Except in comic world, if marvel says there's an invisible dragon, there is one. Unless you can prove that marvel is confused, lying, or otherwise incorrect. So when marvel says that the power gem is the most powerful strength-granting artifact in the universe, and that it grants limitless power, then that's true until proven otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas

very last -- TRULY last -- point. it's just that the way you think really befuddles me. you say you are fine so long as comics have internal consistency, but that can't apply real world logic. and yet you are fanatically defending these numbers, as though math -- the ultimate real world tool of logic -- can be used to define what are ever-changing characters, open to writers' interpretation. even thor saying wm is 10x regular strength is silly. how does thor know quantifiably that it IS 10x reg level?

applying real world math and tools to these situations cannot work in the end because inconsistencies will occur. deifferent writers have different takes on characters. you can at best make generalities. if thanos fought darkseid, you REALLY think thanos would be shown to be 100x superior to him?? no chance. so is that pis? i don't think so.

it's comics. and math, where terms like infinite power are thrown around constantly, just can't be applied.

This isn't real analysis or advanced algebra -- this is imply arithmetic. Generally when marvel says x destroyed 2 planets in one galaxy, and later that x destroyed 2 planets in another galaxy, that implies that x destroyed 4 planets in total. Laws of nature and science are violated with regularity. Simple mathematical logic, generally, is not.

So, for example, if I say to you: "Nothing can surpass the speed of light," I would be quite correct in the real world. But you could reply, "But that can't be true of comics, even if it is true of the real world, because x, y, z characters have all surpassed the speed of light."

On the other hand, if I say to you: "2+2=4", I again would be quite correct in the real world. But you would have to reply, "But that can't be true of comics, even if it is true in the real world, because x, y, z examples show that 2+2=1."

I have never seen any indication that marvel intends for its readers to assume that simple arithmetical "laws" (they are not so much laws, as they are common sense) do not apply. Until then, I will assume that 2+2=4, and not 2+2=1.

As for thor saying wm is 10x is silly, how is that any more or less silly than saying the belt of strength is 2x? How is it any more or less silly than you saying thanos is 2x thor? If you don't like quantification, then you should be neutral toward any quanitifcation. You should say, "He's stronger. that's all I can say."

Clearly, that's not hte case. You like your quantification (wm thor is < 2x), based largely on your opinion of the way characters SHOULD be, but you don't like thor's and marvel's quantification. That's inconsistent. At root, what you REALLY dislike is the fact that thanos might be significnatly stronger than thor, e.g. that thanos might be able to push jupiter around, when thor maxes out at pushing the earth. (which would imply 1000x strength multiple)

Oh, and do I think thanos woudl be shown to be 100x as strong as darkseid? In comic world, yes. I could see thanos pushing jupiter, when thor or darkseid maxes out at earth. Now most people would have no idea this is a 1000x multiple, but most people also would have no idea that surfer traveling a light year in a second implies a 10000000x+ multiple of superman's speed.

On a cosmic scale, 100x ain't that much. Galactus has destroyed galaxies. Do you have any idea how a galaxy compares to a planet or solar system? There are hundreds of billions of stars in a galaxy. Does this mean Galactus can't complete such a feat, since his heralds can only destroy stars? Absolutely not. Because he's done so.

Working hulk pic

Power gem is picked up by thor after drax drops it. Thor states that the gem gives him "absolute power", "power imaginable", and that he now has the power to destroy asgard. Later on, surfer says asgard has "no chance" now that thor has the gem (and this includes odin; indeed, odin is the primary target of thor's fury)

With just wm, on the other hand, brb and surfer fought thor reasonably well 1on1, and even managed to knock him out temporarily when they teamed up:

If explained that it gives you potentially limitless strength Slade. Whats the point of arguing with him. Its like talking to a shoe..or a retarded duck.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
If explained that it gives you potentially limitless strength Slade. Whats the point of arguing with him. Its like talking to a shoe..or a retarded duck.

😆

says the little tick who piggy backs the argument because he's too thick to make one himself . . .

anyway . . . 🙄

so marvel says so and it's true, eh? good, then the discussion is over cuz stan himself says the hulk is the strongest one there is. that means stronger than thanos AND the gem. damn, that was easy and conclusive.

oh, and asgard was in trouble but thor was held by a force ray gun? or perhaps thor was just . . . insane when he said it? 😕 i mean, these types of broad, sweeping 'i'm all-powerful' statements are almost NEVER made by characters . . .

😆

Originally posted by leonidas
😆

says the little tick who piggy backs the argument because he's too thick to make one himself . . .

anyway . . . 🙄

so marvel says so and it's true, eh? good, then the discussion is over cuz stan himself says the hulk is the strongest one there is. that means stronger than thanos AND the gem. damn, that was easy and conclusive.

oh, and asgard was in trouble but thor was held by a force ray gun? or perhaps thor was just . . . insane when he said it? 😕 i mean, these types of broad, sweeping 'i'm all-powerful' statements are almost NEVER made by characters . . .

😆

Well I was the first to state that the INFINITY gems suggest just that...the gems give you infinite potential, okay?

You're 35, a loser, and devote entirely to much time to pointless arguments. How does it suck to be a waste of life, you mid-life crisis waste of space.

You're nearly 2 decades older than me, yet only half as smart. Sucks don't it?

😄

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Well I was the first to state that the INFINITY gems suggest just that...the gems give you infinite potential, okay?

You're 35, a loser, and devote entirely to much time to pointless arguments. How does it suck to be a waste of life, you mid-life crisis waste of space.

You're nearly 2 decades older than me, yet only half as smart. Sucks don't it?

😄

😆

=-)

Originally posted by leonidas

so marvel says so and it's true, eh? good, then the discussion is over cuz stan himself says the hulk is the strongest one there is. that means stronger than thanos AND the gem. damn, that was easy and conclusive.

oh, and asgard was in trouble but thor was held by a force ray gun? or perhaps thor was just . . . insane when he said it? 😕 i mean, these types of broad, sweeping 'i'm all-powerful' statements are almost NEVER made by characters . . .

😆

Look, there's a difference between battle bravado, and strategic discussion. When hulk or some other guy says "you can't beat me!" then jumps into battle and loses, that's not marvel speaking. For the obvious reason that -- he lost.

On the other hand, when authorities like strange, warlock, thanos, and surfer say that the power gem grants infinite power, and will allow thor to destroy asgard (not threaten, mind you... not POSSIBLY destroy .... but WILL DESTROY and ASGARD HAS NO CHANCE), and when marvel says in NARRATION that hte power gem is infinitely powerful, that's a totally different story.

Why would strange/warlock, etc lie to us about it? It's not in their interests for it to be true, after all. Amd why would marvel, in narration describe the power as infinite and limitless, if they really mean something like 2x (belt of str) or 50x (unipower)?

The force ray gun channels thanos' cosmic energy. Thanos personal forcefield has withstood blasts from near full-power galacus, among other feats. I don't see why a force gun he's been working on for a while can't contain a power gem wielder temporarily. He has better tech than anyone other than the celestials and galactus -- who certainly COULD contain a power gem wielder (perhaps indefinitely, since they too draw on infinite sources of power).

now THIS thread was REALLY something..... damnation.... 😆

Thanos wins.

Doubling Thor's strength is not enough to take out Thanos.

Thanos is not more than twice as strong as Thor. I say split.

if you look back you'll see someone saying thanos is actually AT LEAST 100x stronger....

crazy thread....

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos is not more than twice as strong as Thor. I say split.