Originally posted by wannabe
Well, Magic, just like super science, has always been sort of deus ex machina in the comics, so i'm not sure if that counts.
Then why did you put the Flash's sub-second evacuation here.
What is the Speed Force if not some super-science/quasi-magic energy realm?
And if by tapping into the SF he can travel at close the speed of light, and by joining with the SF travel faster than that, then evacuating people at close to the speed of light is not such an issue.
And the SF takes care of things like friction (doesn't exist in the SF, and hence he and anybody he is carrying doesn't spontaneously combust due to air friction), injury (cushions the Flash and whatever/whoever he is carrying from the effects of super-velocity ...eg how to breath when moving that fast), etc etc.
Actually in all of comic-dom, the Speed Force is ONE of the best explained 'forces' out there. The way it is set up actually takes care of many of the questions that would arise otherwise.
And in real life something similar exists ......when scientists found that they could make quarks move faster than the speed of light (something that was thought to be impossible), as well as exist in two places at the same time, there was a whole 'other dimensional' aspect to the whole shebang. Now, obviously this is in sub-atomic particles, but it does have properties that are quite analogous to the whole Speed Force concept.
Thus the Flash, and his feats (even the most ludicrous ones) simply do not belong here, which is interesting because of all the comic characters I can think of the Flash is the ONLY ONE that (to me) can do virtually ANYTHING and it makes sense .....the only explanation necessary is 'the Speed Force.'
Whoever came up with the concept at DC deserves an award ......and the fight between the various Flashes (and their SF) versus Zoom (with his time-jump sequence) actually touched a lot on some of the facets of string-theory and quantum physics.
Green Lantern's feats also fall under the same Deus Ex Machina loophole. The energy battery of Oa, for all intents and purposes, is 'scientific magic.' In that while not TRULY magical (i.e like the Star Heart dynamic that powers GL Alan Scott), it manifests itself in ways that for all purposes are magical.
I believe it was Arthus C. Clarke who said that “Any technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic.'
Thus Oa is definitely deep into 'magic,' whether it is real magic or just some super-duper-science.
Dr Strange, Dr Fate, Zatanna, etc obviously fall into the real magic stuff.
Originally posted by EvilTyrant😆 Damn! That sounds funny in a messed up way.
Another 1 I remember is Sabretooth losing to Black Cat, although Sabretooth was a rookie then, didn't even seem to have a healing factor, well all I remember is Black Cat smashing Creed's head into the pavement multiple times, his face was a bloody mess after that and he was unconscious.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Then why did you put the Flash's sub-second evacuation here.
What is the Speed Force if not some super-science/quasi-magic energy realm?
And if by tapping into the SF he can travel at close the speed of light, and by joining with the SF travel faster than that, then evacuating people at close to the speed of light is not such an issue.
And the SF takes care of things like friction (doesn't exist in the SF, and hence he and anybody he is carrying doesn't spontaneously combust due to air friction), injury (cushions the Flash and whatever/whoever he is carrying from the effects of super-velocity ...eg how to breath when moving that fast), etc etc.
Actually in all of comic-dom, the Speed Force is ONE of the best explained 'forces' out there. The way it is set up actually takes care of many of the questions that would arise otherwise.
And in real life something similar exists ......when scientists found that they could make quarks move faster than the speed of light (something that was thought to be impossible), as well as exist in two places at the same time, there was a whole 'other dimensional' aspect to the whole shebang. Now, obviously this is in sub-atomic particles, but it does have properties that are quite analogous to the whole Speed Force concept.
Thus the Flash, and his feats (even the most ludicrous ones) simply do not belong here, which is interesting because of all the comic characters I can think of the Flash is the ONLY ONE that (to me) can do virtually ANYTHING and it makes sense .....the only explanation necessary is 'the Speed Force.'
Whoever came up with the concept at DC deserves an award ......and the fight between the various Flashes (and their SF) versus Zoom (with his time-jump sequence) actually touched a lot on some of the facets of string-theory and quantum physics.Green Lantern's feats also fall under the same Deus Ex Machina loophole. The energy battery of Oa, for all intents and purposes, is 'scientific magic.' In that while not TRULY magical (i.e like the Star Heart dynamic that powers GL Alan Scott), it manifests itself in ways that for all purposes are magical.
I believe it was Arthus C. Clarke who said that “Any technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic.'
Thus Oa is definitely deep into 'magic,' whether it is real magic or just some super-duper-science.Dr Strange, Dr Fate, Zatanna, etc obviously fall into the real magic stuff.
Quarks can't exceed light speed. The quarks and anti-quarks emitted from black holes are not necessarily moving faster than light. They are being emitted from outside of the event horizon. If this were true, and matter could travel at light speed given 'enough' energy, it would violate the theory of special relativity, and the laws of thermodynamics.
Scientists didn't "make" subatomic particles exist in two places at once. They discovered that less massive particles do exist in two places at once via the slot experiment. Matter behaves as particles and waves simultaniously.
The Speed Force provides cushioning from impact? Tell that to Wally the next time he breaks his nose running into a wall.
I agree with your notion that the Flash's feats do not belong here, but I disagree with your interpretation of the Speed Force. Instead of an infinite energy source (which still would not be sufficient to allow faster than light travel,) the Speed Force is better interpreted as a means of warping space and time, the only logical means of FTL travel.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Quarks can't exceed light speed. The quarks and anti-quarks emitted from black holes are not necessarily moving faster than light. They are being emitted from outside of the event horizon. If this were true, and matter could travel at light speed given 'enough' energy, it would violate the theory of special relativity, and the laws of thermodynamics.Scientists didn't "make" subatomic particles exist in two places at once. They discovered that less massive particles do exist in two places at once via the slot experiment. Matter behaves as particles and waves simultaniously.
The Speed Force provides cushioning from impact? Tell that to Wally the next time he breaks his nose running into a wall.
I agree with your notion that the Flash's feats do not belong here, but I disagree with your interpretation of the Speed Force. Instead of an infinite energy source (which still would not be sufficient to allow faster than light travel,) the Speed Force is better interpreted as a means of warping space and time, the only logical means of FTL travel.
Let me try to respond.
Let's start with the running into the wall=nosebleed thing.
Yep, I've seen the Flash been written as doing some rather 'peculiar' things, what I call 'editor faux pas' where they just make some major inconsistencies (eg when Batman kicked the Hulk, and the Hulk felt it ....and Batman didn't shatter ever single vertebrae in his body).
For instance having Deathstroke actually tag the Flash with a sword, or this instance of a broken nose.
If the SpeedForce did not cushion the Flash, the mere act of moving as fast as he does (actually a FRACTION of the speed he moves at) would literally make any organic matter burst into flames.
He wouldn't even need to go at light/sub-light speeds....at hypersonic speeds (above mach 4) he would literally start to burn.
Thus he needs some form of protection from friction due to air (or for that matter even dust particles suspended in air).
Then there is the bit about him punching foes at high speed.
Now, 'editor fax pas' comes into play again here. As someone mentioned, he has broken his hand knocking out a darn gorilla (albeit an intelligent one). On the other hand he has given super-dense characters infinite mass punches, and suffered no harm whatsoever!
Without some sort of 'cushion' ANY contact whatsoever, at the hgih speeds he travels as, would instantly obliterate him.
There is a reason that the US anti-ICBM system proposal utilizes a kill vehicle that has no explosives whatsoever. What it relies on is basically for the kill vehicle to be propelled up at high mach speed, and to hit the incoming ICBM (which is also travelling at high mach speed ....around Mach 25 in re-entry), and the speed of the two colliding basically ATOMIZES both projectiles. The sheer velocity of the impact basically means that there is no need for explosives of any nature .....none are needed.
Now, if that is the case at high mach speed, imagine what would happen to an organic lifeform travelling at sub-light speed if it contacted with an AIR MOLECULE?
Or a piece of dust?
Or anything for that matter.
The speed force cushions the Flash, and although some cases of 'editor faux pas' occur most protrayals show that the Flash is not affected by such stuff.
Now,on the other stuff I mentioned ......I have to say mea culpa. I shouldn't have said 'quark' when it came to faster than light travel.
However, scientists (in the US, as well as Italy) have managed to make light travel faster than its 'speed limit.'
And not just faster .....300 times faster.
Here is a link:
http://www.science-spirit.org/archive_cm_detail.php?new_id=305
And an excerpt:
Research carried out by particle physicist Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, shows that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second.
The implications, like the speed, are awesome. One of its implications is that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time.
Dr. Wang transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with specially treated caesium gas. Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it and travelled a further 60ft across the laboratory. In effect it existed in two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled 300 times faster than light.
The research is already causing controversy among physicists. If light could travel forward in time it could carry information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable.
Dr Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressed by the findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said.
In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25% above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light.
As for the existing in two places at the same time comment I made, I was not talking about the 'slot' aspect and the waves/particles dichotomy.
I was talking about Quantum Entanglement, where they have managed to 'teleport' electrons and photons.
Now, as they are 'teleported' for a brief instant it will exist in both places at the same time.
The Batman thing was in a crossover.. I'm talking about a regular Flash comic - in continuity. It may be PIS, but that's a common element in virtually every Flash comic.
I'm aware of the Speedforce's protective qualities, but I mean to say that it dosen't make Wally invulnerable.
That article is extremely interesting, and very new to me. Thanks for the info.
Originally posted by TheKahn
I've always wondered about that. The only explanation I can think of is that when his visor is closed this optic blasts hits it and deflects back toward his face where his body re-absorbes the energy. Thus he really doesn't lose any energy when his visor is closed but does when its open. Just a theory though.Personally, I think Energy Superman wrestling an Angel was a bit of a strech.
Thats the exact same theory i had... seems the most feasible doesnt it?