Respect Juggernaut

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I've seen this thrown around a lot when I try to bring up Ult. Juggernaut vs Colossus. Ultimate Juggernaut appeared in Ultimate X-Men #8 with Colossus in his hand.

How many times was Ult. Colossus knocked out before issue #8? If he hasn't been KO'd before then, how would they know he was supposed to stay in his metal form when KO'd?

Or maybe Juggs beat him so bad he reverted back?

I can't check unfortunately.

If that's the case, then we can just as well say, that if Ultimate Juggernaut beat Ultimate Colossus, the only reason this happened was because his level of strength and durability were not really established at that point.

That doesn't make sense. Ultimate Juggernaut simply doesn't have the power and/or feats to logically beat Ultimate Colossus from what I've seen. Didn't Ultimate Captain America down him?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I think they could have done a better job on the helmet design, rather than just giving him a light up visor and glowing rivets or whatever they are.

Yeah, the helmet is sort of goofy. The cyclops-like visor and the extreme pointyness of it or silly.

Are those leather?

Going by the Model sheet scan it looks like they're jeans. That's kinda goofy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That doesn't make sense. Ultimate Juggernaut simply doesn't have the power and/or feats to logically beat Ultimate Colossus from what I've seen. Didn't Ultimate Captain America down him?

That's why I posted what Ultimate Juggernaut was supposed to be, what they originally intended for him. Going by his feats in Ultimates 3 or 4 and then what happened in Ultimatum, then Ult. Juggs is far out classed.

But if we're going on mutant powers alone, Ult. Juggernaut wins hands down.😏 Of course, I mean Colossus without Banshee.(Which is another thing, I don't think they had originally planned for Pete to have to take drugs for his strength.)

Overall, I think they tried to originally make Ult. Juggernaut stronger than Ult. Colossus, but not more durable.

So, Ult. Juggernaut vs Ult. Colossus - Both using Banshee. Who wins?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That's why I posted what Ultimate Juggernaut was supposed to be, what they originally intended for him. Going by his feats in Ultimates 3 or 4 and then what happened in Ultimatum, then Ult. Juggs is far out classed.

But if we're going on mutant powers alone, Ult. Juggernaut wins hands down.😏 Of course, I mean Colossus without Banshee.(Which is another thing, I don't think they had originally planned for Pete to have to take drugs for his strength.)

Overall, I think they tried to originally make Ult. Juggernaut stronger than Ult. Colossus, but not more durable.

So, Ult. Juggernaut vs Ult. Colossus - Both using Banshee. Who wins?

Wait? What do you mean by your first phrase, that Ultimate Juggernaut was supposed to be what they originally intended for him?

He is outclassed.

How would he beat him though? I mean, Ultimate Colossus doesn't eat, sleep, or breathe. He might not have any strength but Juggernaut still cannot hurt him. He would be knocking him around all the place if he didn't have any superhuman strength. No, they didn't intend him to have to take drugs in order to be strong. That was just a pointless and stupid twist that they needed because they didn't have anything else to do.

Yet it seems, that thanks to his usage of banshee, he has Superhuman strength (Or they just might have retconed it or ignored it. Who knows?). It seems he retained his Superhuman strength, meaning that even without the drugs, Ultimate Colossus rips Ultimate Juggernaut a new one.

Nah. I don't think so. I think it was always intended for Ultimate Colossus to be superior. It's clear by his representation and feats that Ultimate Juggernaut is a step below Ultimate Colossus. Just saying. At best I think, you could simply say, that he beat him off panel, and even that is contradictory.

Both using Banshee? What level would that increase Ultimate Juggernaut too though? Ultimate Colossus retained the strength Banshee gave him. Does that mean more usage of Banshee, will amp him even further? Who knows.

I notice alot of respect threads are getting revamped lately. What do you guys think? Is it time to revamp this one?

I would not mind seeing it revamped.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I notice alot of respect threads are getting revamped lately. What do you guys think? Is it time to revamp this one?

I've got all the scans. It's just a matter of organizing it and setting up a photobucket account or something. Imageshack will eventually delete them.

I have a butt load of scans. I'm in the process of organizing them.

let me know when you want to get started so we can collaborate.

What would be a good format for the thread? I've noticed alot of these threads organize them in feat categories (i.e. Strength, Durability, Speed, etc). They are really nice, but those tend to get kind of random after the initial start up.

Maybe this one could follow the characters life in chronological order. It would sort of be a bio that also focuses on all of the accomplishments and feats. This way people could add scans and not worry about them being included with the other strength or durability scans.

I think a photo bucket account could be useful. Make one like RespectJuggernautKMC or something. That way we could just keep dumping all the scans there and not worry about them getting purged.

I like the tier system. I was thinking we could focus on 616 Juggernaut first and then add in Imposternaut and alternate verse Juggernauts afterwards.

The tier system thing gets confusing sometimes though. Example: some battle feats could also be strength feats or what not. For Juggernaut I think we should focus on it like this:

Durability
Strength
Battle

And then we could do a section where we focus on his unique feats like when he used magic to shrink Nightmare or shot those energy orbs at the X-Men.

And then from there we could do alternate verse Jugs, imposternaut etc.

The Photobucket account is a good idea.

Ah, but that would be the best part about doing chronological order. You could do all the feats while telling the story about Classic Juggernaut. Then, you would have to explain the Huggernaut. He does have some interesting points though.

When all is said and done, You get to tell of the Return of The Unstoppable Juggernaut!

The tier list does seem interesting though. Having those three categories would keep it real simple. But what would you put in the "Battle" area? It seems that alot of those would also reach into the Strength/Durability category as well.

His battle feats could be ones where it's just a straight slug-out that don't entail him showing his durability or strength. Prime of the Ultraverse and WWH come to mind.

Yes, I see what you are saying. His fight with the other exemplars came to mind when I thought of Battles.

I basically want to have every one of his significant showings up to date accounted for so that all the stuff we add later are his showings at the time. That way the thread isn't all cluttered up and people can find the majority of what they need in the first or second page.

your suggestions are sorely needed, not just here, but for the web itself. especially feats sorted by strength, durability, combat and special/magical ect. and full scans, no panel chopped and cropped crap, with complete context added. i have a few scans that ive never seen show up on a single thread. KB, you can PM me if the time comes you want them

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I notice alot of respect threads are getting revamped lately. What do you guys think? Is it time to revamp this one?

I was going to do it but unfortunately I ran into time problems and the fact that I had the bulk of Cain's appearances but they were on another computer I no longer have ready access to.

As to the format

I think it should be organized by

Durability

Strength

Combat/Skill/Fights

Miscellaneous Powers/Feats

Feats of other people using Cain's Power

UXM #12
His approach sets Cerebro into a screeching noise not heard before.
Grenades, Electricity, Gas potent enough to stop a herd of Elephants don't really slow him down.
Crushes through a wall that is 50 times the tensile strength of a battleship.
Iceman's wall nor Cyclops beams slow him down.

UXM #13
Basically fights the First Class.
His shield repels Xavier pushing him backwards, while Juggernaut is standing still.
Marvel Girl lifts him in the air, Cain is somehow shattering her shattering her TK power.
Gets thrown into hole, his shield seems to eat away at the earth. Not quite sure how to describe that.
Snags Angel out of the air, Cyclops comments, "I didn't realize he could move so fast!"
Danger room is no match for him, shield sends a 10 ton barrel flying backwards, never touch him.
Marvel Girl lifts him, he still advances despite having no traction.
Eventually defeated by Xavier, with combined efforts of the First Class and The Human Torch, removing his helmet.

UXM #32
Breaks free.
Has full legged pants.
Comments that he exude an aura of sheer energy even when standing still.
Temporally gains Xavier's power.
Sends boxes flying at the X-men, just by standing next to them.
Using mental powers, predicts moves of the X-men.
Uses shield to redirect Beast's attack onto Iceman.
Tanks Scott's eye blast to the chest.
Slams fist into the ground somehow knocking Cyclops out.

UXM #33
Fights army battalion.
Tanks a missile to the chest.
Slams fist into ground while in a canyon causing an earthquake, shock waves rupture across the valley causing a cliff to break apart.
Rips apart a helicopter, unaffected by the rotating blades.
Apparently you can buy a Pet Monkey for $18.95 in this issue. He gets sent through the mail.
He resists a giant fan, then says screw it and jumps into it. His shield allows him to keep moving as it it weren't there.
Iceman freezes him, his shield breaks the ice, turning the pieces into projectiles.
He is transported to another dimension.

UXM #46
He starts off this issue in the Crimson Cosmos.
He is transported back to the mansion and just starts tearing the place up.
Basically they tell him Prof. X. is dead and he precedes to beat the crap out of them calling them lairs.
He is somehow able to shoot out globules of energy.

His next appearance is in Dr. Strange #182.

Here is just his first 5 appearances. So how will this information be organized? Remove things, add things. This mainly just seem like battles. His use of the shield could be in the Unique feats section along with the temporary mind powers.

Would his use of his unstoppability, i.e. breaking through the 50x battleship door be in the strength department or unique powers?

I'd feel horrible if I didn't offer to help. I don't have all of the scans that I used to have, but I have some Huggernaut era scans, and access to most of his old school ko's. That would be a nice section for the thread I believe.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
UXM #12
His approach sets Cerebro into a screeching noise not heard before.
Grenades, Electricity, Gas potent enough to stop a herd of Elephants don't really slow him down.
Crushes through a wall that is 50 times the tensile strength of a battleship.
Iceman's wall nor Cyclops beams slow him down.

UXM #13
Basically fights the First Class.
His shield repels Xavier pushing him backwards, while Juggernaut is standing still.
Marvel Girl lifts him in the air, Cain is somehow shattering her shattering her TK power.
Gets thrown into hole, his shield seems to eat away at the earth. Not quite sure how to describe that.
Snags Angel out of the air, Cyclops comments, "I didn't realize he could move so fast!"
Danger room is no match for him, shield sends a 10 ton barrel flying backwards, never touch him.
Marvel Girl lifts him, he still advances despite having no traction.
Eventually defeated by Xavier, with combined efforts of the First Class and The Human Torch, removing his helmet.

UXM #32
Breaks free.
Has full legged pants.
Comments that he exude an aura of sheer energy even when standing still.
Temporally gains Xavier's power.
Sends boxes flying at the X-men, just by standing next to them.
Using mental powers, predicts moves of the X-men.
Uses shield to redirect Beast's attack onto Iceman.
Tanks Scott's eye blast to the chest.
Slams fist into the ground somehow knocking Cyclops out.

UXM #33
Fights army battalion.
Tanks a missile to the chest.
Slams fist into ground while in a canyon causing an earthquake, shock waves rupture across the valley causing a cliff to break apart.
Rips apart a helicopter, unaffected by the rotating blades.
Apparently you can buy a Pet Monkey for $18.95 in this issue. He gets sent through the mail.
He resists a giant fan, then says screw it and jumps into it. His shield allows him to keep moving as it it weren't there.
Iceman freezes him, his shield breaks the ice, turning the pieces into projectiles.
He is transported to another dimension.

UXM #46
He starts off this issue in the Crimson Cosmos.
He is transported back to the mansion and just starts tearing the place up.
Basically they tell him Prof. X. is dead and he precedes to beat the crap out of them calling them lairs.
He is somehow able to shoot out globules of energy.

His next appearance is in Dr. Strange #182.

Here is just his first 5 appearances. So how will this information be organized? Remove things, add things. This mainly just seem like battles. His use of the shield could be in the Unique feats section along with the temporary mind powers.

Would his use of his unstoppability, i.e. breaking through the 50x battleship door be in the strength department or unique powers?

Well, I was thinking more of his significant showings. What you're suggesting is showing the majority of his showings from every appearance. I'm in the process now of organizing the scans of his significant showings. Example for Durability: Deadpool drops a vat of molten steel on him and all it does is make him mad. Strength: In his battle with Stonercutter they were collapsing the hills around then with their punches. Battle: With his power cut seemingly in half, Juggernaut easily slugs it out with, and at times over powers Prime of the Ultraverse who is a 100 tonner with high durability. These are what I mean by significant showings. Not just Juggernaut tanking an electrical charge or picking up a car.

Tell you what, let's collect all the scans we think we need then we'll get together and figure out how to structure it.

I figured most of that wouldn't be used. But the mind powers, and shield usage were mostly in those early issues. His advancement while being levitated was in the second issue. I think we should use almost, if not, all of the feats listed in the first post. Of course, correct those which might be misleading or could be misinterepted.

Should the varied use of his shield be included?

I pretty much have every issue at my disposal, so we just need to figure out which feats to use and what issue #.