Would You Honestly Have Believed In Your Relegion Today If Your Parent/society Hadnt

Shakyamunison

I do not elevate Jesus as Messiah simply on the basis of scripture stating so. Nor do I embrace the Bible as the Word of God simply because Jews, Christians, and Muslims state it to be. If that were the case, it would prove impossible to have "genuine" faith in Christ and the Bible. On the contrary, Jesus must be the Messiah due to circumstantial evidence revealed, and the same applies to the Bible. For example, if the Bible stated that a one world religion and government would materialize in the latter days, scripture would need circumstancial evidence "outside of itself" to support those claims, not self-imposed philosophy or "feelings" of it being true. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to influence better understanding, or provoke curiosity. Only you have the power to do so. As the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. No pun intended, but I doubt that you have studied biblical scripture and put it to the test. I does not take all day to recognize sunshine, and speaking on matters of fact regarding biblical scripture, you seem to have missed the obvious. I have stated, since my first entry posted on this forum, that all the evidence in the world does not prove with "absolute" acccuracy that the Bible is "actually" the Word of God, or that Jesus is the Messiah. However, the evidence certainly puts things into perspective. It is a powerful case, and (again) I doubt that you have "sincerely" studied world religions, especially Christianity. When you say that Christianity is a spin off of Judaism, that really shows your ignorance- lack of knowledge I mean. Jesus Christ founded Christiantiy, not mere men starting a new religion for kicks on a weekend. Christians recognized the Messiah as prophesied in the Old Testament, Jews did not; they still pray for the coming Messiah. But, the Messiah has already come! Read Isaiah 53. If you are willing to pause for a moment and read something informative completely free of dogmatic nonsense, click the hyperlink below and read "Christian Apologetics (Answering the Skeptic)." The blog doesn't begin to present all information avaliable to study, but it does put things into an organized intelligent fashion, having no statements beginning with: I think, I believe, or I feel. It's evidence. Read it and then make a decision. It will be an educated one.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=35170013

Originally posted by ushomefree
Shakyamunison

I do not elevate Jesus as Messiah simply on the basis of scripture stating so. Nor do I embrace the Bible as the Word of God simply because Jews, Christians, and Muslims state it to be. If that were the case, it would prove impossible to have "genuine" faith in Christ and the Bible. On the contrary, Jesus must be the Messiah due to circumstantial evidence revealed, and the same applies to the Bible. For example, if the Bible stated that a one world religion and government would materialize in the latter days, scripture would need circumstancial evidence "outside of itself" to support those claims, not self-imposed philosophy or "feelings" of it being true. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to influence better understanding, or provoke curiosity. Only you have the power to do so. As the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. No pun intended, but I doubt that you have studied biblical scripture and put it to the test. I does not take all day to recognize sunshine, and speaking on matters of fact regarding biblical scripture, you seem to have missed the obvious. I have stated, since my first entry posted on this forum, that all the evidence in the world does not prove with "absolute" acccuracy that the Bible is "actually" the Word of God, or that Jesus is the Messiah. However, the evidence certainly puts things into perspective. It is a powerful case, and (again) I doubt that you have "sincerely" studied world religions, especially Christianity. When you say that Christianity is a spin off of Judaism, that really shows your ignorance- lack of knowledge I mean. Christians recognized the Messiah as prophesied in the Old Testament, Jews did not; they still pray for the coming Messiah. But, the Messiah has already come! Read Isaiah 53. If you are willing to pause for a moment and read something informative completely free of dogmatic nonsense, click the hyperlink below and read "Christian Apologetics (Answering the Skeptic)." The blog doesn't begin to present all information avaliable to study, but it does put things into an organized intelligent fashion, having no statements beginning with: I think, I believe, or I feel. It's evidence. Read it and then make a decision. It will be an educated one.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=35170013

So, you have not read many of my posts. The reason that Jesus can not be the Messiah is because the Messiah must be human. Jesus is considered to be divine and therefore disqualified. That is the modern view of Jesus by the Jews. However, I do believe that Jesus was the Messiah for he was not divine and we now live in the kingdom of god.

Well Jesus did say "The kingdom of god is within you." 😄

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well Jesus did say "The kingdom of god is within you." 😄

Yes, that is what I am getting at. 😛 I wish people would live for now and here instead of some dead guy who died along time ago.

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death.

In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. Without the belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come into being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, His crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of His being the Messiah. The cross would have remained the sad and shameful end of His career. The disciples had nothing to gain by starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility and martyr’s deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preachinig was a lie.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death.

In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. Without the belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come into being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, His crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of His being the Messiah. The cross would have remained the sad and shameful end of His career. The disciples had nothing to gain by starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility and martyr’s deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preachinig was a lie.

Why do you waist your time?

I didn't realize that I was. I thought we were having a discussion here. Sorry.

Originally posted by ushomefree
For example, if the Bible stated that a one world religion and government would materialize in the latter days, scripture would need circumstancial evidencehttp://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=35170013

Originally posted by ushomefree
I didn't realize that I was. I thought we were having a discussion here. Sorry.

You can't convert me, and good works will not get you into heaven, only by grace can you enter heaven.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death.

In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. Without the belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come into being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, His crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of His being the Messiah. The cross would have remained the sad and shameful end of His career. The disciples had nothing to gain by starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility and martyr’s deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preachinig was a lie.

But there is no Hell, so what is Jesus saving us from?

Sheol, pit, grave....etc....only means death. And Gehenna was a place for burning refuge outside Jerusalem..Jesus used it as a metaphor to make a point. Jesus always used metephors.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I didn't realize that I was. I thought we were having a discussion here. Sorry.

You wish to have a discussion with me? Please keep your posts short. There is no need to quote the bible, tell me your point and I'll take your word for it. Oh, and, don't insult me, or say I am ignorant, and I will be happy to discuss with you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You can't convert me, and good works will not get you into heaven, only by grace can you enter heaven.

Ah, but good works and grace will double your pleasure. 😂

Originally posted by Kella
Ah, but good works and grace will double your pleasure. 😂

😆 But wouldn't that be sinful?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Ohhhhhhh man, not another one....So, you're in the true church, and everyone else is in the false church???....I guess there will be a lot of people in hell.

No, that is not true I never said there would be a lot of people in hell, in fact I don't believe anybody will be in hell.

No, he is just another victim of the big lie, just like I used to be. These slaves are so brainwashed that they don't need chains to control them.

Brainwashed? what do you mean brainwashed, brainwashing is a process where somebody takes you, and through a long process of torture get you to believe what they want you to believe. Like I said I was by myself for two years, I felt alone, I knew I couldn't believe off of my parents testimonies. I came to a knowledge of the truthfulness by myself, through Jesus Christ the Lord. And if I am brainwashed, I don't care. I live a better life then most people in the world. I live a healthy life, it is easy for me to keep the commandments of God. When I go through trials, not only can I turn to God, but I can turn to my friends, friends who have gone through trials like the ones I go though. So if you want to say im brainwashed, then say it, I forgive you for it, because I know the truth, and know that if I will not forgive you, it is a greater sin. I do not care what others believe, I am not trying to convince you to believe what I believe, I am just letting you know that I would believe even if nobody else did. I would believe even if I was going to be killed for it. I love my life. The LDS people are the nicest people I have ever known, they truly live as their church teaches, unlike most people I know. Some members may not, but that is there problem, not mine kand not yours. Everybody has their agency to believe what they want, it is something God gave us, and is something he will never violate. I know that the church I belong to is true, but that does not mean that the members of the church are the only ones going to heaven and everybody else is going to hell. Hell is only temporary, nobody will be condemed to Hell for eternity. God is a loving father, and would never let his children suffer for all eternity, he loves everyone of them, and if you ask him to be in your life sincerly having faith in Christ, he will join you in your life, if you are living as he would have you live.

Originally posted by Regulus A Black
No, that is not true I never said there would be a lot of people in hell, in fact I don't believe anybody will be in hell.

Brainwashed? what do you mean brainwashed, brainwashing is a process where somebody takes you, and through a long process of torture get you to believe what they want you to believe. Like I said I was by myself for two years, I felt alone, I knew I couldn't believe off of my parents testimonies. I came to a knowledge of the truthfulness by myself, through Jesus Christ the Lord. And if I am brainwashed, I don't care. I live a better life then most people in the world. I live a healthy life, it is easy for me to keep the commandments of God. When I go through trials, not only can I turn to God, but I can turn to my friends, friends who have gone through trials like the ones I go though. So if you want to say im brainwashed, then say it, I forgive you for it, because I know the truth, and know that if I will not forgive you, it is a greater sin. I do not care what others believe, I am not trying to convince you to believe what I believe, I am just letting you know that I would believe even if nobody else did. I would believe even if I was going to be killed for it. I love my life. The LDS people are the nicest people I have ever known, they truly live as their church teaches, unlike most people I know. Some members may not, but that is there problem, not mine kand not yours. Everybody has their agency to believe what they want, it is something God gave us, and is something he will never violate. I know that the church I belong to is true, but that does not mean that the members of the church are the only ones going to heaven and everybody else is going to hell. Hell is only temporary, nobody will be condemed to Hell for eternity. God is a loving father, and would never let his children suffer for all eternity, he loves everyone of them, and if you ask him to be in your life sincerly having faith in Christ, he will join you in your life, if you are living as he would have you live.

I’m glad you have faith.

BTW I didn’t know you was a Mormon. I generally have more respect for Mormons and Catholics; sorry if I miss spoke.

You still can’t convert me, I don’t believe in Christian mythology and I know how bad it can get. I also know that there are good Christians in the world, but I don’t meet many of them. I know a few on this forum.

You can't convert me, and good works will not get you into heaven, only by grace can you enter heaven.

I generally have more respect for Mormons and Catholics;

God is a loving father, and would never let his children suffer for all eternity

Originally posted by finti
...more respect for those compare tho whom?...

When compared to most Christians. The Mormons have it together as far as community and self-responsibility. Now, Catholics are generally more open-minded and have some things in common with Buddhists, especially the east Orthodox Church.

didnt know the mormons was considered as christians, and catholics are open minded????????? yeah tell that to gay people or the producers of birth control

Originally posted by finti
didnt know the mormons was considered as christians, and catholics are open minded????????? yeah tell that to gay people or the producers of birth control

Mormons not Christian, why would you say that? Their mythology is just a little (maybe more) different from other Christians.

And for Catholics, I didn't say they are not Christian. 😆

well they tend to follow their own way more than the way of the New Testament, seems like their own prophet rank higher than that of jesus christ so.......