Originally posted by whobdamandogOff-topic:
Whoah..the sign of a desperate man above, bringing in arguments..that have no relation to the thread topic, in an effort to get their point across. Anyway..a lot of babbling in that one up there. As it has been stated to you countless times..in countless threads, despite you're opinion, Neandrathals..are considered fully human. The "genetic" differences you've asserted as existing..are no different then the "genetic" differences one would find in a normal human being, which would manifest themselves in a multitude of different physical ways. Some of these these "genetic differences" are listed below.Must I really go on? These types of "genetic differences" are present in humans today. So by yours and others of like minded rationale, we should now start putting modern man in various "species" categories. This is a racist and diluted view of humanity, and I'm appalled that you and so many others have been so indoctrinated to the point that you actually believe such drivel. You and others like you are truly the ridiculous ones my friend. You have spent years studying such nonsense, and it's taken me less than 30 minutes to completely refute it. Based on this, I think it's clearly apparent to all, which one of us carries the greater degree of "common sense" my friend.
Neandertal DNA sequences and the origin of modern humans. Krings M, Stone A, Schmitz RW, Krainitzki H, Stoneking M, Paabo Cell. 1997 Jul 11;90(1):19-30.
DNA was extracted from the Neandertal-type specimen found in 1856 in western Germany. By sequencing clones from short overlapping PCR products, a hitherto unknown mitochondrial (mt) DNA sequence was determined. Multiple controls indicate that this sequence is endogenous to the fossil. Sequence comparisons with human mtDNA sequences, as well as phylogenetic analyses, show that the Neandertal sequence falls outside the variation of modern humans. Furthermore, the age of the common ancestor of the Neandertal and modern human mtDNAs is estimated to be four times greater than that of the common ancestor of human mtDNAs. This suggests that Neandertals went extinct without contributing mtDNA to modern humans.
Genomic differentiation of Neanderthals and anatomically modern man allows a fossil-DNA-based classification of morphologically indistinguishable hominid bones. Scholz M, Bachmann L, Nicholson GJ, Bachmann J, Giddings I, Ruschoff-Thale B, Czarnetzki A, Pusch CM. Am J Hum Genet. 2000 Jun;66(6):1927-32. Epub 2000 Apr 27.
Southern blot hybridizations of genomic DNA were introduced as a relatively simple fossil-DNA-based approach to classify remains of Neanderthals. When hybridized with genomic DNA of either human or Neanderthal origin, DNA extracted from two Neanderthal finds-the Os parietale, from Warendorf-Neuwarendorf, Germany, and a clavicula, from Krapina, Croatia-was shown to yield hybridization signals that differ by at least a factor of two compared to the signals obtained with the use of fossil DNA of an early Homo sapiens from the Vogelherd cave (Stetten I), Germany. When labeled chimpanzee DNA was used as a probe, Neanderthal and human DNA, however, revealed hybridization signals of similar intensity. Thus, the genome of Neanderthals is expected to differ significantly from the genome of anatomically modern man, because of the contrasting composition of repetitive DNA. These data support the hypothesis that Neanderthals were not ancestors of anatomically modern man.
Neanderthal cranial ontogeny and its implications for late hominid diversity. Ponce de Leon MS, Zollikofer CP. Nature. 2001 Aug 2;412(6846):534-8.
Homo neanderthalensis has a unique combination of craniofacial features that are distinct from fossil and extant 'anatomically modern' Homo sapiens (modern humans). Morphological evidence, direct isotopic dates and fossil mitochondrial DNA from three Neanderthals indicate that the Neanderthals were a separate evolutionary lineage for at least 500,000 yr. However, it is unknown when and how Neanderthal craniofacial autapomorphies (unique, derived characters) emerged during ontogeny. Here we use computerized fossil reconstruction and geometric morphometrics to show that characteristic differences in cranial and mandibular shape between Neanderthals and modern humans arose very early during development, possibly prenatally, and were maintained throughout postnatal ontogeny. Postnatal differences in cranial ontogeny between the two taxa are characterized primarily by heterochronic modifications of a common spatial pattern of development. Evidence for early ontogenetic divergence together with evolutionary stasis of taxon-specific patterns of ontogeny is consistent with separation of Neanderthals and modern humans at the species level.
Does Homo neanderthalensis play a role in modern human ancestry? The mandibular evidence. Rak Y, Ginzburg A, Geffen E. Am J Phys Anthropol. 2002 Nov;119(3):199-204. Data obtained from quantifying the upper part of the mandibular ramus (the coronoid process, the condylar process, and the notch between them) lead us to conclude that Neanderthals (both European and Middle Eastern) differ more from Homo sapiens (early specimens such as Tabun II, Skhul, and Qafzeh, as well as contemporary populations from as far apart as Alaska and Australia) than the latter differs from Homo erectus. The specialized Neanderthal mandibular ramus morphology emerges as yet another element constituting the derived complex of morphologies of the mandible and face that are unique to Neanderthals. These morphologies provide further support for the contention that Neanderthals do not play a role in modern human biological ancestry, either through "regional continuity" or through any other form of anagenetic progression.
Neandertal evolutionary genetics: mitochondrial DNA data from the iberian peninsula. Lalueza-Fox C, Sampietro ML, Caramelli D, Puder Y, Lari M, Calafell F, Martinez-Maza C, Bastir M, Fortea J, de la Rasilla M, Bertranpetit J, Rosas A. Mol Biol Evol. 2005 Apr;22(4):1077-81.
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) was retrieved for the first time from a Neandertal from the Iberian Peninsula, excavated from the El Sidron Cave (Asturias, North of Spain), and dated to ca. 43,000 years ago. The sequence suggests that Iberian Neandertals were not genetically distinct from those of other regions. An estimate of effective population size indicates that the genetic history of the Neandertals was not shaped by an extreme population bottleneck associated with the glacial maximum of 130,000 years ago. A high level of polymorphism at sequence position 16258 reflects deeply rooted mtDNA lineages, with the time to the most recent common ancestor at ca. 250,000 years ago. This coincides with the full emergence of the "classical" Neandertal morphology and fits chronologically with a proposed speciation event of Homo neanderthalensis.
Molecular analysis of Neanderthal DNA from the northern Caucasus. Ovchinnikov IV, Gotherstrom A, Romanova GP, Kharitonov VM, Liden K, Goodwin W. Nature. 2000 Mar 30;404(6777):490-3.
The expansion of premodern humans into western and eastern Europe approximately 40,000 years before the present led to the eventual replacement of the Neanderthals by modern humans approximately 28,000 years ago. Here we report the second mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) analysis of a Neanderthal, and the first such analysis on clearly dated Neanderthal remains. The specimen is from one of the eastern-most Neanderthal populations, recovered from Mezmaiskaya Cave in the northern Caucasus. Radiocarbon dating estimated the specimen to be approximately 29,000 years old and therefore from one of the latest living Neanderthals. The sequence shows 3.48% divergence from the Feldhofer Neanderthal. Phylogenetic analysis places the two Neanderthals from the Caucasus and western Germany together in a clade that is distinct from modern humans, suggesting that their mtDNA types have not contributed to the modern human mtDNA pool. Comparison with modern populations provides no evidence for the multiregional hypothesis of modern human evolution.
Evidence for a genetic discontinuity between Neandertals and 24,000-year-old anatomically modern Europeans. Caramelli D, Lalueza-Fox C, Vernesi C, Lari M, Casoli A, Mallegni F, Chiarelli B, Dupanloup I, Bertranpetit J, Barbujani G, Bertorelle G. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 27;100(11):6593-7
During the late Pleistocene, early anatomically modern humans coexisted in Europe with the anatomically archaic Neandertals for some thousand years. Under the recent variants of the multiregional model of human evolution, modern and archaic forms were different but related populations within a single evolving species, and both have contributed to the gene pool of current humans. Conversely, the Out-of-Africa model considers the transition between Neandertals and anatomically modern humans as the result of a demographic replacement, and hence it predicts a genetic discontinuity between them. Following the most stringent current standards for validation of ancient DNA sequences, we typed the mtDNA hypervariable region I of two anatomically modern Homo sapiens sapiens individuals of the Cro-Magnon type dated at about 23 and 25 thousand years ago. Here we show that the mtDNAs of these individuals fall well within the range of variation of today's humans, but differ sharply from the available sequences of the chronologically closer Neandertals. This discontinuity is difficult to reconcile with the hypothesis that both Neandertals and early anatomically modern humans contributed to the current European gene pool.
On-topic: Shows how much your verbal diarrhoea is based on absolutely nothing.