Originally posted by sithsaber408
I already said that I believe that part to be wrong.
I don't think anyone, not a victim of rape, has the right to say that killing the product of a rape is wrong. I believe all abortion is wrong, but abortions are not always done for the same reasons. If you knew what it was like to be raped, I am sure you'd change your opinion.
Their logic is fine.
If you believe abortion is murder, then rape is no justification for killing the child, and no matter what you think, the legislators think that it IS the same as killing the child.
And yes, then the rapist would indeed have the same rights to the child as the mother. Which is to say, the Mother would not have many rights to the child if she had committed a violent criminal offence. As obviously the rapist has done that, it's hardly going to be equal access. Just that both are judged by the same criteria.
Just consider how many Family Court hearings are actually going to consider it appropriate for the rapist to spend time with the child? Pretty much bugger all.
The fact that at some point the rapist might have some for of connection with the child... is just a fact of life, I am afraid. In these sorts of cases, the well-being of the child is put first and it is considered a human right for a child to, for examp,e, know the indetity of their parents, regardless of circumstance.
But there is no need to perpetuate the idea of a rapist forcibly gettin into his victim's life and taking a child, or what-not.
So the rest of this all flows logically from the belief that a foetus has the right to life.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...then you're trying to debate a fact and therefore, are wrong.About as far as it really needs to go there.
-AC
Once more, only in your opinion. Many disagree. You are just going to have to accept that there is a debate bere, no matter what your opinion on ths subject is, and that that opinion is the basis of this proposed law change, or the law in Ireland.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
But there is no need to perpetuate the idea of a rapist forcibly gettin into his victim's life and taking a child, or what-not.
based on your own assumption, which is based on nothing but your own logic, not the logic of any individual case which may or may not abide by yours...and any other sane individual's.
"If a woman who is raped becomes pregnant, the rapist would have the same rights to the child as the mother, said Krista Heeren-Graber, executive director of the South Dakota Network Against Family Violence and Sexual Assault."
that refers to the rights of the rapist, equal to the rights of any parent. not the right of a child to learn the identity of a parent.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Then imagine me raising the child, with [B]more love and dedication than it normally takes.Imagine me trusting God to take that evil (rape) and make somehting good out of it(love, parenthood, enriched-life,grandchildren).
Imagine me building integrity and character by doing what's right in the most horrible of circumstances. (what we do in the worst of times defines who we are.)
Then imagine that my son or daughter becomes a great person, a sennator, or even President.
Imagine me seeing that I was incredibly blessed for following the Will of the Lord. [/B]
Wow. You really want to bring a lot of good in this world, I see. But as soon as you wake up from you dream, come talk to me. The truth is a lot of people, though they would like nothing more to help people when they need it, often have their handsful just worrying about themselves. What isf that women can't afford to raise her child? Is the rapist going to cover the bill? What if she's poor and has no skills that are considers "valuable" in our society? As noble as your making it sound for a woman to raise a fatherless child, and not mention the father is a rapsit, it's not as noble in practice. In fact it's pretty crazy. If a rich woman gets raped and has the resources available to raise the child, ok, let her. Don't ask other people to.
Originally posted by meep-meep
Wow. You really want to bring a lot of good in this world, I see. But as soon as you wake up from you dream, come talk to me. The truth is a lot of people, though they would like nothing more to help people when they need it, often have their handsful just worrying about themselves. What isf that women can't afford to raise her child? Is the rapist going to cover the bill? What if she's poor and has no skills that are considers "valuable" in our society? As noble as your making it sound for a woman to raise a fatherless child, and not mention the father is a rapsit, it's not as noble in practice. In fact it's pretty crazy. If a rich woman gets raped and has the resources available to raise the child, ok, let her. Don't ask other people to.
And definitly do not force them too... Besides rich people will just fly to a country where its legal and have an abortion anyways.. if they want to at least.
Re: FINALLY!!! Rapists can Procreate in S. Dakota
Originally posted by PVS
February 24th, 2006 5:57 pmPIERRE, S.D. - The Legislature on Friday approved a ban on nearly all abortions in South Dakota, setting up a direct legal assault on Roe v. Wade.
This is the heart of the matter. It is nothing but a political tactic, implemented by those in power right now. This is the snow flake that starts the avalanche. No one in this country should be suprised by this. This administration has been gearing up for this for the last 6 years.
It sickens me, but it doesn't suprise me.
All this means is that they decided to start the fight in S. Dakota. Why take it to such an extreme, so far as to deny abortions to rape victims? Because that just fans the flames that much faster.
There are going to be a lot of pregnant women flying in the not too distant future.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It ironically counters the whole argument that childbirth is some wonderous miracle.Watch the single mother miracles spread like a forest fire.
-AC
Indeed. Isn't so wonderful to see a poor mother try and raise her children. You know those inner city schools really are just a hot-bed of extremely dedicated teachers who love working with children who are taught only what is necessary so that they pass standardized tests.
It has to be such a wonderful feeling to try and feed and cloth your growing children while making 300 dollars a week. It must make you feel so good, too, when the food stamps and welfare that you may need in times of trouble are takien away from you by the public who thinks you are a piece of garbage who is free-loading off their tax dollars.
You know I wish I was a poor or working poor woman who got raped. That sounds like it is just a great and very morally fulfilling life.
You think if I ask real nice-like God will turn me into a woman who has been throught these things? Would hedo it for me? Maybe you can pray for me. Heck while you're at it why don't you ask him to change you into a raped pregnant woman too. Then, we could actually talk about it on common ground from a common perspective.
Somehow I think we'd agree on a few more issues.
It's easy to ignore the nitty-gritty details of some peoples life and expect them to follow your, possibly privileged, life as their own.
I'm really sorry, Alpha. The first few sentances of this post I was answering you, but as you can see it turned into something a bit more generalized. I didn't mean to direct this at you. You obviously aren't the target of this. Just wanted to get some things off my chest.
Originally posted by meep-meep
Indeed. Isn't so wonderful to see a poor mother try and raise her children. You know those inner city schools really are just a hot-bed of extremely dedicated teachers who love working with children who are taught only what is necessary so that they pass standardized tests.
It has to be such a wonderful feeling to try and feed and cloth your growing children while making 300 dollars a week. It must make you feel so good, too, when the food stamps and welfare that you may need in times of trouble are takien away from you by the public who thinks you are a piece of garbage who is free-loading off their tax dollars.
You know I wish I was a poor or working poor woman who got raped. That sounds like it is just a great and very morally fulfilling life.
You think if I ask real nice-like God will turn me into a woman who has been throught these things? Would hedo it for me? Maybe you can pray for me. Heck while you're at it why don't you ask him to change you into a raped pregnant woman too. Then, we could actually talk about it on common ground from a common perspective.
Somehow I think we'd agree on a few more issues.
It's easy to ignore the nitty-gritty details of some peoples life and expect them to follow your, possibly privileged, life as their own.I'm really sorry, Alpha. The first few sentances of this post I was answering you, but as you can see it turned into something a bit more generalized. I didn't mean to direct this at you. You obviously aren't the target of this. Just wanted to get some things off my chest.
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.
Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.
Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little. 😉
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.
Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little. 😉
Well that's very heartwarming, and obviously now you are here, you are glad that it happened that way. It's not the same story for everyone though, which is why the element of choice needs to be present.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.
Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little. 😉
Well, I'm glad that you weren't aborted, but ya know what? Not all women have that same determination. Especially if they were raped. So good for your mom. She is a strong women, I imagine. I'm sure you feel very adamant in your opinions about abortion, too, considering your background. But remember, that is YOUR background. Did you grow up in the city? Were you on food stamps? Welfare? Were you poor. Was your mom addicted to cocaine? Are you the son of a rapist? If your mom dealt with at least a few of these issues than your mom is definitely one of those few you were able to "swim against the current" considering your sitting here talking with at least an opinion. But remember some kids grow up living in every single one of these conditions and sometimes even more hardships, like they themselves being raped.
Should kids be aborted so that they don't grow up in poverty? Nope, we shouldn't have poor to begin with so it isn't the kids fault. But adamant proabortion people put us into a conundrum by socially disregarding the poor families who don't chose to abort and at the same time attacking people whose abortions don't have as much as a societal affect as the poor children in this country.
I know a lot of these parente who give birth to kids in poverty that don't even think about abortion. I know one lady who has 4 kids. She doesn't work. She takes care of the kids. The husband, Rick, lost his job some time back and he's been looking for one since. They are POOR. What about these kids? So think about that.
So many people claim to preserve the sanctity of life by being against abortion. But they convientely forget about the kids who are alive. You know some of them claim if if their tax dollars didn't go to abortion they would be against it anyway. They support protecting life. What about kids in Indonesia who are sold for sex and work 12 hours a day just to make a few cents? Once that life is here that's it? You did your job. Life's here, and it's "saved."
Where's all this riighteousness when it comes to taking care of those children. Are you in those neighborhoods, helping the mothers and fathers to get jobs? Are you helping to put these kids through school so that they have a better understanding of these issues? No.
Inviting them to accept god as their savior is good enough, right?
A lot of women deal with these issues, and for anyone to say that a woman can't abort a child, as horrible as it is, when they were raped, is just sticking your nose into a life that you refuse to accept as real.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.
Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little. 😉
I don't mean to be offensive, But by admiton on your own profile...
By the time I was 17 I had 7 misdemeanors and 2 felonies(for theft/robbery/drugs....
now you say that boot camp turned your life around... How many people in your boot camp came from single parent families??? I would say that kids raised in a single parent family tend to be a lot more screwed up then others... And most single parents couldn't cope these days...
Krein found children in single-parent families twice as likely to drop out of high school as children living full time in two-parent families. Children in single-parent homes are also more likely to have their own marriages end in separation or divorce, and are at higher risk for unmarried parenthood.
A problem breeding another problem???