Originally posted by debbiejo
Why do you think this way? It's not true.
Just because you don't believe it's true, doesn't mean it isn't (wow, that was a lot of negatives for one sentence). Anyway, I wish you could know my brother. He wasn't a Christian until two years ago. He lived life like most people do, partying, drinking, experimenting with drugs, sleeping around. One day out of nowhere, he decided to go to church. That day something the preacher said God used to really speak to him. He spoke about Jesus dying for each of us, seeing each of our names and faces and sins while on the cross. He knew the bad things we were going to do, and He still died for us. Something about that changed my brother's life from that moment on. He's always been one of those people that others love and are fond of, the life of the party. But, now he brings real life to them. His whole outlook on life has changed. He is one of the best people I'll ever know. And, he still has fun living and enjoying life as a husband and leader and doing all that he does. I just talked to him today. He sent me money for a trip and talked to me for so long. My big brother told me to make sure I called him before I go to Boston to share the message of the Gospel just so he could pray with me. He told me to be careful for there will be people that try to tear me down. I told him about this forum, and once more he said be careful. I know that is what some of you are trying to do, maybe without even realizing it. But, I won't let it. With Christ, I can have life and have it to the fullest. I know the Truth, and the Truth has set me free, even from doubt and fear. I have nothing to doubt and nothing to fear. I love my life and my family and friends and more than that I love my God. I just want you to see those kinds of changes in people and to realize that they happen because of the Holy Spirit indwelling in our lives, because of Jesus' amazing grace. I just want you to also have life and have it to the fullest.
Originally posted by BackspaceMen manipulated that word for their own purposes.....Jesus wasn't even considered divine until a later council in the 300's AD...and Jesus never said he was god, and he didn't tell people to worship him. And he didn't say HE would throw anyone into hell.........
Says God in His holy word.
Grace is given to all people not just some select few.
Originally posted by debbiejo
But you just don't get it.....There is no such place as hell.
You have no proof of that, just as I have no proof other than the Bible that it does. It takes believing in the Bible to believe in hell, which is something you don't believe in I guess. But, don't say there is no such thing for no reason other than you don't want to believe in it. I wish it didn't exist, but it does. Therefore, I'm going to do all I can do to keep people from going there.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Men manipulated that word for their own purposes.....Jesus wasn't even considered divine until a later council in the 300's AD...and Jesus never said he was god, and he didn't tell people to worship him. And he didn't say HE would throw anyone into hell.........Grace is given to all people not just some select few.
Originally posted by MicahLynnYeah, well I wish you knew me because I was a Christian ALL my life!....Did many of the same things you talked about. So, don't tell me that once you know Christ it will forever change your life, and you will know PEACE, and you will be soooooooo open to HIS truth, and he will talk to you, and blah blah blah........Cause I get more answers now then I ever did as a Christian, and if you did a little studding, like your history, for one, you'll see the lie for what it is......A MANIPULATION of the church.....Not much truth left once they got done with it.
Just because you don't believe it's true, doesn't mean it isn't (wow, that was a lot of negatives for one sentence). Anyway, I wish you could know my brother. He wasn't a Christian until two years ago. He lived life like most people do, partying, drinking, experimenting with drugs, sleeping around. One day out of nowhere, he decided to go to church. That day something the preacher said God used to really speak to him.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Men manipulated that word for their own purposes.....Jesus wasn't even considered divine until a later council in the 300's AD...and Jesus never said he was god, and he didn't tell people to worship him. And he didn't say HE would throw anyone into hell.........Grace is given to all people not just some select few.
Luke 22:66-70 - "At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together and Jesus was led before them. "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, and if I asked you, you would not answer. But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Originally posted by debbiejo
Yeah, well I wish you knew me because I was a Christian ALL my life!....Did many of the same things you talked about. So, don't tell me that once you know Christ it will forever change your life, and you will know PEACE, and you will be soooooooo open to HIS truth, and he will talk to you, and blah blah blah........Cause I get more answers now then I ever did as a Christian, and if you did a little studding, like your history, for one, you'll see the lie for what it is......A MANIPULATION of the church.....Not much truth left once they got done with it.
Did you ever truly walk with Christ? Read His word, spend time in prayer, allow Him to work in your life? It's not a manipulation. What is a manipulation is that you are allowing satan to lead you astray. I know you don't believe in satan, but that is one of his greatest ploys and plots and schemes. He can better lead people astray if they don't even realizing he is doing it. Read "Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis, or "The Ishbane Conspiracy" (don't remember the author)... both are about this type of thing. Both might open your eyes to the fact that maybe you are the one being manipulated and lied to.
Originally posted by MicahLynnI've read the "Screwtape Letters" along with other C.S. Lewis books.....
Did you ever truly walk with Christ? Read His word, spend time in prayer, allow Him to work in your life? It's not a manipulation. What is a manipulation is that you are allowing satan to lead you astray. I know you don't believe in satan, but that is one of his greatest ploys and plots and schemes. He can better lead people astray if they don't even realizing he is doing it. Read "Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis, or "The Ishbane Conspiracy" (don't remember the author)... both are about this type of thing. Both might open your eyes to the fact that maybe you are the one being manipulated and lied to.
Now, see how judgmental you are, asking me if I truly walked with Christ, read his word, spend time in prayer.....and OHHHHHHH yes, I learned all about how satan is deceiving me and the rest of the world...Yep, he whispers in my ear all the time, and yep he sends people to tell me all the time to remind me that I'm being deceived by evil demonic spirits, oh no, those are christians telling me that...yep, I have people praying for me too, so that I'll be one with them....God forbid anyone is allowed to think for themselves anymore....And I mean truly think...
Originally posted by MicahLynnHe didn't call himself god...He called himself "The son of Man"...A title....I am also "The daughter of Man."...We all have that spark in us...Jesus didn't say "Believe in me or you're going to hell"..... Hell is the invention of Roman Catholicism; and surprisingly, most, if not all, of our popular concepts of hell can be found in the writings of Roman Catholic writers like the Italian poet Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), author of Dante's Inferno. The English poet John Milton (1608-1674), author of Paradise Lost, set forth the same concepts in a fashion highly acceptable to the Roman Catholic faith. Yet none of our concepts of hell can be found in the teaching of Jesus Christ! We get indignant at the mention of purgatory-we know that's not in the Bible. We may also find that our popular concepts of hell came from the same place that purgatory did-Roman Catholicism.
Luke 22:66-70 - "At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together and Jesus was led before them. "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, and if I asked you, you would not answer. But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Debbie Jo, you make me sad. 🙁 You are such an intelligent girl/woman (I don't know your age), but you are missing the one thing that will truly help you. A high IQ and all kinds of knowledge won't save you. Only Jesus will, and He's the One that you've turned from. That really does make me sad. You seem like such a good person, and the sad thing is, good isn't enough. I am reminded of Galatians 6:9 that says, "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." God hasn't given up on you, and I won't either. I don't know what happened in your life to make you doubt God, but I am sorry it happened (I told Shaky the same thing). I hate that bad things happen to good people and that satan can use times of weakness to distract people and pull them away from the Only One who can truly help.
Originally posted by debbiejo
He didn't call himself god...He called himself "The son of Man"...A title....I am also "The daughter of Man."...We all have that spark in us...Jesus didn't say "Believe in me or you're going to hell"..... Hell is the invention of Roman Catholicism; and surprisingly, most, if not all, of our popular concepts of hell can be found in the writings of Roman Catholic writers like the Italian poet Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), author of Dante's Inferno. The English poet John Milton (1608-1674), author of Paradise Lost, set forth the same concepts in a fashion highly acceptable to the Roman Catholic faith. Yet none of our concepts of hell can be found in the teaching of Jesus Christ! We get indignant at the mention of purgatory-we know that's not in the Bible. We may also find that our popular concepts of hell came from the same place that purgatory did-Roman Catholicism.
I'm actually currently reading a book called "Four Views on Hell." On the aspect of hell, I realized that I had always just believed in the hell of fire and torment and darkness and separation from God because I was never taught that there were other possbilities. I'm still unsure of what I believe, but I'm really looking into a conditional view. I know hell is real, in some form, I just don't know exactly how it will be and all that. So, I'm really giving it some thought and effort to figure out. I do know that because hell is eternal separation from God, I don't want to go there. I can't imagine being separated from God's love and grace, and I don't want to even think about it.
Originally posted by MicahLynnDid you do a study of it in your concordance and look at the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of it?.......It only means dead....grave...no fire and burning..Sheol...etc...
I'm actually currently reading a book called "Four Views on Hell." On the aspect of hell, I realized that I had always just believed in the hell of fire and torment and darkness and separation from God because I was never taught that there were other possbilities. I'm still unsure of what I believe, but I'm really looking into a conditional view. I know hell is real, in some form, I just don't know exactly how it will be and all that. So, I'm really giving it some thought and effort to figure out. I do know that because hell is eternal separation from God, I don't want to go there. I can't imagine being separated from God's love and grace, and I don't want to even think about it.
The Orthodox Jews know there is no fiery hill, and they would know wouldn't they?....Then why can't you believe them....they are expert on the OT language.
Originally posted by MicahLynn
Debbie Jo, you make me sad. 🙁 You are such an intelligent girl/woman (I don't know your age), but you are missing the one thing that will truly help you. A high IQ and all kinds of knowledge won't save you. Only Jesus will, and He's the One that you've turned from. That really does make me sad. You seem like such a good person, and the sad thing is, good isn't enough. I am reminded of Galatians 6:9 that says, "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." God hasn't given up on you, and I won't either. I don't know what happened in your life to make you doubt God, but I am sorry it happened (I told Shaky the same thing). I hate that bad things happen to good people and that satan can use times of weakness to distract people and pull them away from the Only One who can truly help.
I think it's funny 😆 You really know your mythology. I know it too. You never got to the same point that I got to, when you realized that what the church was teaching is not what is in the bible. You see, the Old Testament does not agree with Paul, but it does agree with Jesus. I believe that Paul’s teaching was inferior to Jesus. So, I only read the words of Jesus now.
maybe i should be done with this. you aren't even listening to a word i say. it doesn't even matter to you at all. i can't convince you of something when you have already closed your mind to it and refuse to even listen. i'm not giving up on you though. maybe one day, i'll see you in heaven, shaky and debbie jo, because maybe one day you will finally decide to open your mind to the truth.
Originally posted by MicahLynnTell you what....get your concordance and look up all the verses of hell, and then come back here and tell us what it says. The OT and the NT.
maybe i should be done with this. you aren't even listening to a word i say. it doesn't even matter to you at all. i can't convince you of something when you have already closed your mind to it and refuse to even listen. i'm not giving up on you though. maybe one day, i'll see you in heaven, shaky and debbie jo, because maybe one day you will finally decide to open your mind to the truth.
Originally posted by MicahLynn
maybe i should be done with this. you aren't even listening to a word i say. it doesn't even matter to you at all. i can't convince you of something when you have already closed your mind to it and refuse to even listen. i'm not giving up on you though. maybe one day, i'll see you in heaven, shaky and debbie jo, because maybe one day you will finally decide to open your mind to the truth.
Do not worry about me, I will be fine. The mystic law is unknowable, so, we need something to know. Religion gives this to us, but grace is grace and there is only one that we all share.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Tell you what....get your concordance and look up all the verses of hell, and then come back here and tell us what it says. The OT and the NT.
why? so you can shoot down everything i say? i just told you i'm reading a book on four views right now. i think that hell is going to be a period of punishment but that eventually the unsaved and evil people of the world will dwindle into nonexistence. i'll give you a list of verses that show this, Old and New Testament verses, if you really want me to.