Originally posted by PVS
oh please link to a documant that states that. ill be waiting........forever
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marriage+as+a+right+in+the+united+states
Originally posted by PVS
oh please link to a documant that states that. ill be waiting........forever
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marriage+as+a+right+in+the+united+states
Originally posted by BackFire
That's a WEDDING! Marriage can be done without any of that crap.
I'm sorry....
I thought the argument was for gay people to be allowed marriage...
You know, in a wedding?
Besides, the wedding ceremony itself isn't the only thing in the Bible (you did just agree that it is from the Bible though, right?).... but also the institution of marriage.
"For this reason, a man shall leave his mother and father and be joined with one woman,".... etc.
Marriage is ordained by God, its ideas and practices (one man, one woman, supporting each other, in good and bad, for the rest of their lives), and its standards. (no divorce, except in case of adultery.)
You don't have to believe it, but God has had his plan for marriage since it was invented, and those that did so followed His word.
No I didn't just agree that it's from the bible, where the hell did you get that?
A wedding can be a religious ceremony in a church, which is the traditional standard.
If Gay marriage was legalized no one would force a Christian church to do gay weddings since it directly goes against their religious beliefs. The argument is for marriage and nothing more, and having the government recognize the union between two people.
Originally posted by PVS
DB, im not kidding. you made me laugh so hard i could barely breath 😂
Here, http://secure.uslegalforms.com/cgi-bin/forms/search.pl?S-0
Originally posted by PVS
"Form Search Results We accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover,Paypal and E-Checks.
Empty Queries are not permitted.Note that some common and key words such as state names are removed from a query on titles."
wow....i stand corrected 😂
The website--uslegalforms.com
Originally posted by BackFire
No I didn't just agree that it's from the bible, where the hell did you get that?A wedding can be a religious ceremony in a church, which is the traditional standard.
If Gay marriage was legalized no one would force a Christian church to do gay weddings since it directly goes against their religious beliefs. The argument is for marriage and nothing more, and having the government recognize the union between two people.
Right, and marriage itself, the very idea of it, is ordained by God.
It's taken directly from the Bible.
Before that, there was no official marriages, let alone wedding ceremonies.
As stated, the Dead sea scrolls and many other ancient texts confirm the Bible's authenticity as far as when it was written. (believing what is inside is totally up to you.)
But saying that there was marriage , the institution, idea, whatever, or wedding ceremonies BEFORE it was ordained by God and told to the people on Earth who recorded it is wrong.
The Bible gives the plan for marriage, and the earliest parts of the Bible have been around just as long as any organized society that could have a marriage.
It may not be that way now, but don't say that it (marriage) isn't something from God. (or the book, the Bible, if that makes you more comfortable.)
btw, hear this before?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
apparently "pursuit of happiness" does not involve marriage and family?
thats a privilege...like a drivers license...right? 🙄
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Right, and marriage itself, the very idea of it, is ordained by God.It's taken directly from the Bible.
Before that, there was no official marriages, let alone wedding ceremonies.
As stated, the Dead sea scrolls and many other ancient texts confirm the Bible's authenticity as far as when it was written. (believing what is inside is totally up to you.)
But saying that there was marriage , the institution, idea, whatever, or wedding ceremonies BEFORE it was ordained by God and told to the people on Earth who recorded it is wrong.
The Bible gives the plan for marriage, and the earliest parts of the Bible have been around just as long as any organized society that could have a marriage.
It may not be that way now, but don't say that it (marriage) isn't something from God. (or the book, the Bible, if that makes you more comfortable.)
None of this has anything to do with anything I said. Whether or not marriage existed before the bible or after is totally worthless to the discussion.
Marriage, in its current form, can be done without any religious undertones, thus the whole religious argument against gay marriage is completely void, because no one would be forcing your church to marry gays if they didn't want to, it would simply allow the government to recognize their union, and religions that would choose to marry gay people to do so.
Originally posted by BackFire
None of this has anything to do with anything I said. Whether or not marriage existed before the bible or after is totally worthless to the discussion.Marriage, in its current form, can be done without any religious undertones, thus the whole religious argument against gay marriage is completely void, because no one would be forcing your church to marry gays if they didn't want to, it would simply allow the government to recognize their union, and religions that would choose to marry gay people to do so.
Precisely.
People can -- and do -- marry outside of religion. Hell, marriages that are strictly religious aren't even recognized anymore by themselves, you must get a certificate of marriage -- a legal document -- for it to be official.
It's all legal, not religious.
And btw, how do you figure that no marriage performed before Christianity came along was official? Just because they don't follow your silly little rules doesn't make it any less valid. Does that make Hindu marriage ceremonies not official in your eyes, because it's outside of Christianity? Hinduism is FAR older than Judeo-Christianity, you realize.
Originally posted by BackFire1.) no it isnt.
Whether or not marriage existed before the bible or after is totally worthless to the discussion.Marriage, in its current form, can be done without any religious undertones,
2.) because marriage in its current form is still an offshoot of the original institution, ordained by God, and the original ceremony, described in the Bible.
Just because it CAN be done without religion, doesn't change where it came from, or make it right.
That is what the argument is about.
Those against gay marriage say that it is ordained by God, and intended for one man and one woman.
It has been for thousands of years.
Those for gay marriage say it isn't ordained by God, or when shown proof that it was originally, say "that doesn't matter now."
And there you have your cause for debate.
They are not asking for the same things as everbody else, ... they are asking that the same things for everbody else be CHANGED to include them.
Changed from what they have always been, and from what they were intended to be, and from what they were ordained by God to be.
To include people who are living an unnatural lifestyle.
Who go against biology.
Against family, against society, against history.
To include people who are living an unnatural lifestyle.Who go against biology.
Against family, against society, against history.
You've yet to prove any of that.
And, you know, changes is usually for the better. If not for change, interracial marriages wouldn't be allowed. Women wouldn't be allowed to vote. Slavery would still exist. But all these things changed because people woke up and thought "Hmmm, that's not right." Extending equal rights to homosexuals -- including the right to marry -- is the same thing; people realizing "that's not right. They should be allowed the same rights as us." It may take some time before it is legalized in the US but I'll bet anything that it will happen.
...you DO realize that religion and Christianity in particular does not run this world, and the US, correct? That one of the basises of this country is it's freedom of religion, and that there will never be an official religion? Trying to make something illegal based on a religion thinking it wrong is unconstitutional.
Originally posted by Lana
You've yet to prove any of that.
Nope. It's already been proven.
You know that you are designed to have sex with a man, right?
You know that your vagina lubricates to recieve a man's penis right?
You know that not one single life would be created, nor would society's continue and advance, were it not for the joining of male sperm and female ovaries, right?
You know that you have a period every month becuase your eggs were unfertilized by a man, not a woman, right?
You can ignore that if you want, (deny is a better word) and pretend that your bodies natural functions that you were born with don't matter,....
but the bloody tampon you leave in the toilet knows better.
Homosexual sex is un-natural
Heterosexual sex is natural.
Again, deny it if you want, but it doesn't make you right.
Deny that there is a God, or that he has real power, despite thousands of people who are healed every year.
(See the evolution thread. I give an account of my father-in-law being healed of Hepatitus C through prayer at a conference with a pastor.)
Deny that Christ was real, or if he was that he was the Son of God, despite the fact that the very HISTORY of this world is measured by where in time you are, before his life or after.
You and others like you can live life with your heads in the sand if you choose to, but there are REAL truths out there, absolutes, that the rest of us won't allow changed so easily by those who are living blindly.
Say hi to your tampax for me. 😎
Originally posted by sithsaber408
1.) no it isnt.
Yeah, yeah it is. The argument isn't about where it came from, it's about its current form, how it's used now, which could entirely support gay marriage if allowed.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
2.) because marriage in its current form is still an offshoot of the original institution, ordained by God, and the original ceremony, described in the Bible.
Doesn't matter, again, has nothing to do with the current form of marriage. Assuming that marriage did come from The Bible, and that it didn't exist before (which you haven't proven, by the way) makes no difference to the way it's currently used. You seem to be talking about the ceremony that goes with a wedding, more so than you're talking about the act of marriage, which is more of a government act than a religious one right now.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Just because it CAN be done without religion, doesn't change where it came from, or make it right.That is what the argument is about.
Those against gay marriage say that it is ordained by God, and intended for one man and one woman.
It has been for thousands of years.
Because something has been one way throughout history doesn't mean it shouldn't change as society changes. Where something came from doesn't matter to what it is now. Our country originally allowed slaves, shucks, I guess since that's how this country was original intended when should still have slaves! That cotton field won't pick itself, after all! Slavery was abolished as society evolved, this is another area that will begin changing as society changes, as it should.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Those for gay marriage say it isn't ordained by God, or when shown proof that it was originally, say "that doesn't matter now."And there you have your cause for debate.
They are not asking for the same things as everbody else, ... they are asking that the same things for everbody else be CHANGED to include them.
They say that because it doesn't matter now! It's irrelevant to its current form!
They're not trying to change marriage! What an absolute load of shit. If gay people are allowed to marry it would have zero effect on straight people getting married. It's not like a straight person would need to watch to gay people **** before they are pronounced man in wife, it would effect nothing other than the gay people who want to be allowed the same rights that straight criminals can have. I suppose black people shouldn't have been given the right to vote under the same thought process. Because it obviously changed things for the people who were already allowed to vote! Damn!
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Changed from what they have always been, and from what they were intended to be, and from what they were ordained by God to be.To include people who are living an unnatural lifestyle.
Who go against biology.
Against family, against society, against history.
Somethings need to change with society, slavery changed, rights were given to people who had never had rights and so fourth, this is the same deal.
That last sentence is a huge load of bullshit, it's pathetic that some people actually believe such excrement. Gay marriage would have zero detrimental effect to family, society or history. Gay people are perfectly capable of raising a perfectly balanced and normal child. The only impact you'd see on society is a lot more happy people who are enjoying their newfound rights, finally being able to enjoy the benefits of marriage to the person they love just like everyone else can. History would view it as a good change, much like the abolishment of slavery and womens suffrage.
Your above post has shit to do with anything I posted, what a lazy retort. Should be expected of you though.
"MY DAD WAS HEALED BECAUSE HE WAS! PROOF OF GOD! PROOF OF GOD!"
Yeah, sometimes wierd shit just happens. Or sometimes there's an explanation that you simply don't know of. Assuming it's god who healed your dad becuase you WANT to believe that, and then trying to condemn people who support gay marriage as 'living with their heads in the sand'....yeah....that really makes sense.