Akuma vs. Sephiroth

Originally posted by shin_gear
The same reasons I was talking about.

1. The planets keep busting in gameplay. Auron keeps tossing his bottle each time he does the tornado overdrive in gameplay, when in actuality he carries one bottle with him. Tornado is an illusion now. Lulu always happens to have a spare blitzball for Tidus to kick while doing Blitz Ace in gameplay. Blitz Ace is also an illusion.

2. The party couldn't survive it, no doubt. Many moves cannot be survived by a cast either, ones that are unavoidable as well, such as the attack in VIII where a boss grabs three planets and smash them on the cast. It's an ability. It did not happen for the sake of happy endings. This is not hard to understand.

3. Seifer Sephiroth was seraphic (celestial, relating to a seraph etc. the name Sephiroth was based on the Sephirot, or Sephirah which are the ten commandments of the Hebrew god created through which he can manifest not only the physical but the metaphysical universe.) Gods are defeatable, big deal. We don't know how the cast overcame Seifer Sephiroth to use his loss against him. We do know that if his most powerful move is an illusion, then all other moves that can be considered illusions for the same reasons are also, which of course is dumb.

1 blitzace isnt considered an illusion... and its not just Lulu (depending on who u have in your party..) Who says they dont retrieve it as easy as wakka gets his back...
2. Greater attracter was actually to be taken litterally since it was in a time condensed demesion where ultimacia made the rules and had the power of all sorceresses, the team surviving it of course is PIS.
3. Its not seifer sephiroth... seifer was in ff8, Safer (english) or Seraph (actual translatoin from Jap version). It must be taken in to account that the people you play as are by no means "normal people" so when they survive planet crushing stuff and what not, its just like any superhero in comics being hit by a nuke; some survive, some dont. Supernova isnt suppose to be taken literally since if he could blow up earth he wouldnt bother with meteor... Of course, when you acquire things such as KOTR in that game, that doesnt happen in the canon story line. The farthest you get is Bahamut Zero by story line and no defeating of WEAPONS (thus no ultima weapon) by story line at least... Sephiroth (although their is a religion worshiping him) has not yet obtained godhood in the end of FF7 original which he seeks. He does however, reach "mortal perfection" hence the celestrial rose symbol behind him and his rather angelic appearance.

On topic now, even if akuma could destory his physical body (which he cant) Sephiroths will exists on and would eventually reform. but even without that Sephiroth takes this within probably 1-2 seconds

I agree with most points, but Seph is not having an easy fight.

Originally posted by shin_gear
AC Sephiroth is not confirmed to be more powerful than Seifer Sephiroth. You could tell this by reading the KH versus AC Sephiroth thread. The one making the claim used the fact that an interview based on Advent Children with it saying at one point that there was nothing above Sephiroth (not even mentioning in what way) as proof that AC Sephiroth > Seifer Sephiroth which is false. It did not make that statement directly and is obviously speculation. About Sephiroth not surviving a Super Nova, I mean I guess there's no point in showing Sephiroth engulfing himself in his own attack. It's his own spell. Why would he not make himself invulerable to it? 😬

I already explained that. Goddess Minerva and Omega Weapon are gods. They are exactly what Sephiroth wanted to be in FFVII. And he is equal to them, because nothing is above him.
So, if Kitase and Nomura were talking about Safer, that means he was already a god, and he wouldn't need Meteor in the first place.
They were talking about AC Sephiroth, that's obvious.

About Safer Sephiroth. His name IS Safer. Not Seraph.
Safer Sephiroth = Book of Numbers

Super Nova exist. But the comet destroying the solar system is an illusion. We don't know what the attack really looks like, because we never saw it outside of the illusion.

About the fight. Sephiroth is in the level of Omega and Minerva, that "have power over the"/"can be considered the living incarnation of the" planet itself. He is in a completely different league than Akuma. He wins.

Gouki has feats to put him on Seph's level, like destroying an island, splitting a mountain, traveling entire landmasses in an instant, and hacky sacking a submarine at the bottom of the ocean.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Gouki has feats to put him on Seph's level, like destroying an island, splitting a mountain, traveling entire landmasses in an instant, and hacky sacking a submarine at the bottom of the ocean.

From what I heard, these feats aren't cannon.

And Sephiroth can move a planet across the universe after destroying it. Can create warriors and monsters in the level of Yazoo, loz, and Kadaj, or above them. Can hold back a spell powerful enough to kill all the human race, and fight against Avalanche, in the same time.

Sephiroth, Minerva, and Omega are "planet destroyers". Even if these feats you showed are cannon, Akuma is not in their level.

Originally posted by SHM
From what I heard, these feats aren't cannon.

And Sephiroth can move a planet across the universe after destroying it. Can create warriors and monsters in the level of Yazoo, loz, and Kadaj, or above them. Can hold back a spell powerful enough to kill all the human race, and fight against Avalanche, in the same time.

Sephiroth, Minerva, and Omega are "planet destroyers". Even if these feats you showed are cannon, Akuma is not in their level.

Seph is not a planet destroyer, I would like you to prove that.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
They are canon. Seph mova a planet? Big deal, not a combat feat. Create warriors? No he can't, he didn't make them, they were pre-existing Seph clones. And once again, not a combat feat. Holding back Holy? NOT A COMBAT FEAT. If you fight against Avalanche and you lose, it's not much of a feat.

Seph is not a planet destroyer, I would like you to prove that.

Can you(and some other people in this forum) stop with this bulls*it about "not a combat feat"? So in a vs thread with Galactus, will you say that he can't devour the planet and kill his adversary in the procces, just because "devouring a planet" is not a combat feat?! Oh come on!

Sephiroth can destroy a planet, because Omega and Minerva can do that. And "there is nothing stronger, nothing above him(Sephiroth)" in FFVII. Ah, and he have his own fuc*ing Lifestream.

And no, Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj aren't Sephiroth clones. Seph clones are people from Nibelheim injected with J-cells, to make them go to the Reunion and prove Hojo's theory.
Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj are spirit bodies formed of the Negative Lifestream created by Sephiroth. The same for the Shadow Creepers they summoned during the movie. It's all explained in the Reunion Files and presented in the movie(a good example, is Kadaj returning to his original form(Lifestream) after Sephiroth was defeated and Aerith's rain was falling).

Originally posted by SHM
Can you(and some other people in this forum) stop with this bulls*it about "not a combat feat"? So in a vs thread with Galactus, will you say that he can't devour the planet and kill his adversary in the procces, just because "devouring a planet" is not a combat feat?! Oh come on!

Sephiroth can destroy a planet, because Omega and Minerva can do that. And "there is nothing stronger, nothing above him(Sephiroth)" in FFVII. Ah, and he have his own fuc*ing Lifestream.

And no, Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj aren't Sephiroth clones. Seph clones are people from Nibelheim injected with J-cells, to make them go to the Reunion and prove Hojo's theory.
Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj are spirit bodies formed of the Negative Lifestream created by Sephiroth. The same for the Shadow Creepers they summoned during the movie. It's all explained in the Reunion Files and presented in the movie(a good example, is Kadaj returning to his original form(Lifestream) after Sephiroth was defeated and Aerith's rain begun to fall).

2. Flawed logic. DBZ characters can destroy a planet, Superman cannot, but Supes would still wipe his ass with Goku due to other attributes he trumps him in. Unless you can prove Seph can bust a planet, it's all speculation.

3. Alright, fair enough, but still won't help in this fight.

Gouki has what it takes to fight Seph.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. That is a combat feat. The things you said aren't.

If "devouring a planet" is a combat feat, than "destroying a planet and moving it across the universe" is a combat feat.

2. Flawed logic. DBZ characters can destroy a planet, Superman cannot, but Supes would still wipe his ass with Goku due to other attributes he trumps him in. Unless you can prove Seph can bust a planet, it's all speculation.

I didn't say he can bust a planet. How will he use it as a vessel to travel the cosmos, if the planet is not there anymore?
He can destroy the surface of it, transform it in a dead vessel. That's what his plan during AC and the two years between the movie and FFVII, was all about. That's what he was doing, when he made the Lifestream cover the sky in the final battle, and descend it to earth in the form of tendrils.

Talking about "other attributes", Seph can turn intangible, fly, create illusions, protect himself with a barrier that I doubt Akuma can destroy, and many other things. His versatility give him another advantage in this battle.

3. Alright, fair enough, but still won't help in this fight.

How it won't help?! Creating warriors and monsters to fight with him, will help.

Gouki has what it takes to fight Seph.

If he is playing around like he did with Cloud then yes, Gouki has what it takes to fight Seph.

Originally posted by SHM
If "devouring a planet" is a combat feat, than "destroying a planet and moving it across the universe" is a combat feat.

I didn't say he can bust a planet. How will he use it as a vessel to travel the cosmos, if the planet is not there anymore?
He can destroy the surface of it, transform it in a dead vessel. That's what his plan during AC and the two years between the movie and FFVII, was all about. That's what he was doing, when he made the Lifestream cover the sky in the final battle, and descend it to earth in the form of tendrils.

Talking about "other attributes", Seph can turn intangible, fly, create illusions, protect himself with a barrier that I doubt Akuma can destroy, and many other things. His versatility give him another advantage in this battle.

How it won't help?! Creating warriors and monsters to fight with him, will help.

If he is playing around like he did with Cloud then yes, Gouki has what it takes to fight Seph.

2. Years to do.

3. Gouki can turn intangible, kinda fly, teleport, fire Hadoukens, use ki with his attacks, use a punch to sink an island, destroy a submarine with a kick, split a mountain with a punch, among others. This fight is closer than you think. Oh, and as for that barrier, what would Seph do to Gouki from the inside?

4. No proof he can instantly do it.

5. Gouki would murk Cloud. If Seph plays around Gouki kills him.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Which took years to do.

2. Years to do.

3. Gouki can turn intangible, kinda fly, teleport, fire Hadoukens, use ki with his attacks, use a punch to sink an island, destroy a submarine with a kick, split a mountain with a punch, among others. This fight is closer than you think. Oh, and as for that barrier, what would Seph do to Gouki from the inside?

4. No proof he can instantly do it.

5. Gouki would murk Cloud. If Seph plays around Gouki kills him.

1, 2. It doesn't matter. We are using his AC version right? Then his Lifestream already exists and he can use it to destroy the planet, or attack Akuma from all sides.

3. Akuma can't fly. Show me when he turns intangible. What can he do if Seph immobilise him with telekinesis and attack him in the next second with everything he have?

About the barrier, he could summon an army of beasts and/or warriors to fight for him, while he is inside the barrier enjoying the show. Or just throw one of his arms against Akuma, create the barrier, and use Jenova's shapeshifting ability to transform his arm in a giant monster full of magic spells, like he did in the game(because Jenova's body in FFVII, and his body in AC, are the same).

4. The monsters and the three brothers are formed from a small portion of the Negative Lifestream. Sephiroth summoned ALL of it in one or two seconds. And Kadaj and his brothers were summoning monsters instantly during all the movie.

5. I disagree.

Er...V2D...Supes can destroy planets. Using his speed alone he split one of Jupiter's moon.

In any case...I agree with Gouki giving Seph a hell of a fight.

I've heard somewhere that Safer Sephiroth was a mistranslation of Seifer Sephiroth. Makes more sense to me to call him that, Safer Sephiroth is meaningless and strange.

I didn't understand your points fully Hannibal, but I understood most of it. Still assuming that SN is an illusion opens up a whole rack of theories that other attacks are illusions as well (such as Eden's attack for instance) and seriously, Sephiroth not then bothering with meteor...I mean, did he bother with it when he became S.S.?

Why would he bother about meteor? He just needed meteor to kill the planet. Why would he have to worry about it, yo?

...has someone bothered to use something to accomplish a goal, and at the end achieved something even greater? Yes. I think this would be the case.

Wait a minute, he wanted to use meteor so that he can absorb the lifestream, not to "destroy" the planet. I'm not sure if he gained the lifestream when he was S.S., otherwise he would have become what is considered a "god" by the FF7 creators. I think SN would be part of his attacks (and again, the whole illusion theory is flawed with so many mistakes).

I didn't say destroy the planet. All he wanted was to kill the planet. Remember that in FF7 the planets are actually alive.

Originally posted by shin_gear
[B]I've heard somewhere that Safer Sephiroth was a mistranslation of Seifer Sephiroth. Makes more sense to me to call him that, Safer Sephiroth is meaningless and strange.

"The origin of the name "Safer Sephiroth" is Hebrew, just as the lone name "Sephiroth" is (the boss' name as written in Japanese is "セーファ・セフィロス," or "Sēfa Sefirosu"; note that "safer" can also be transliterated as "sefer," "sapher," and "sepher"😉. "Safer" is Hebrew for "book," while "sephiroth" is Hebrew for "numbers," and, thus, the boss' name translates to "Numbers Book," or—more accurately—"Book of Numbers." The Book of Numbers is one of the many Kabbalistic references in Final Fantasy VII, it being the name of a book of the Torah, as well as a book of the Bible. The Safer Sephiroth is a Kabbalistic treatise concerning the evolution of God from a being of inactive rest to one of active creation. It deals with the ten Sephiroth, a central concept of the Kabbalah. This may relate to the origins and purpose of Jenova or the Lifestream, and the concept of "numbers" most obviously alludes to Sephiroth's "clones," each bearing a numbered tattoo. However, the ten Sephiroth are the divine emanations of God, and the ultimate purpose of kabbalists is to become one with God, or to attain Godhood as a part of God, traversing the divide of sin to reunite with the deity."

Super Nova is real. This is why the characters are affected by it and lose HP. But the comet destroying the solar system is an illusion. Sephiroth can't do that, and his SN attack don't have all that power.

Sephiroth is on a whole different level then Gouki, he stomps him

Originally posted by SHM
1, 2. It doesn't matter. We are using his AC version right? Then his Lifestream already exists and he can use it to destroy the planet, or attack Akuma from all sides.

3. Akuma can't fly. Show me when he turns intangible. What can he do if Seph immobilise him with telekinesis and attack him in the next second with everything he have?

About the barrier, he could summon an army of beasts and/or warriors to fight for him, while he is inside the barrier enjoying the show. Or just throw one of his arms against Akuma, create the barrier, and use Jenova's shapeshifting ability to transform his arm in a giant monster full of magic spells, like he did in the game(because Jenova's body in FFVII, and his body in AC, are the same).

4. The monsters and the three brothers are formed from a small portion of the Negative Lifestream. Sephiroth summoned ALL of it in one or two seconds. And Kadaj and his brothers were summoning monsters instantly during all the movie.

5. I disagree.

2. He turns intangible with the Asura Senku I think it's called, which also lets him kinda fly I think. Seph can't TK people to immobilize him, hell, there's not even any real proof he has TK.

3. Those army of beasts or warriors would be punked by Gouki, oh, and if he changes one of his arms into a Jenova monster, it will weaken Seph, and the monster will die btw, one arm is not sufficient to kill Gouki. Also, when did Seph do this? The Seph we see do it in FFVII was made of parts of Jenova.

4. Kay. I hope you do realise said brothers and monsters would be punked by Gouki.

5. I don't care.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. When was it stated he could instantly do this? Never, you are assuming.

2. He turns intangible with the Asura Senku I think it's called, which also lets him kinda fly I think. Seph can't TK people to immobilize him, hell, there's not even any real proof he has TK.

3. Those army of beasts or warriors would be punked by Gouki, oh, and if he changes one of his arms into a Jenova monster, it will weaken Seph, and the monster will die btw, one arm is not sufficient to kill Gouki. Also, when did Seph do this? The Seph we see do it in FFVII was made of parts of Jenova.

4. Kay. I hope you do realise said brothers and monsters would be punked by Gouki.

5. I don't care.

1. He can't instantly destroy the planet, but he can instantly summon the Negative Lifestream to attack anyone he wants. Like he made it "attack" the planet, in the form of tendrils.
Did you watch AC?

2. Yeah, Seph cannot TK people.

One of Sephiroth’s many powers, is telekinesis:

(Cloud falls in slow-motion through blackness. The only light is from a glowing white sphere in the center of the screen. It pulsates with energy as though it were a beating heart. Cloud continues to fall toward it.)

Li......ght......
A light........
Is this.......
Is this light...... Holy?

(He falls into the light. The scene abruptly changes. The core of the Planet. In the undulating green glow is a round, red stone structure. It forms tendrils, almost but not quite concealing what is inside- a pulsating white sphere. The structure is surrounded by many smaller stone platforms. The entire party rests unconscious on these. After a moment, Barret stands.)

Barret
"Oww... damn, man!"

(Cloud gets to his feet.)

Cloud
"Barret!?"

(The rest of the party comes to.)

Barret
"What...? So everyone's together again...?"

(Suddenly, a ring of white fire shoots from the center of the sphere. The party is levitated, struggling, into the air.)

"Uuuugh...!!"

(Sephiroth's face flashes in front of the camera for a split second. His theme begins to play as he vanishes, only to reappear, materializing from the center of the sphere.)

Cloud
"...Sephiroth!!"

(Another ring of white fire emanates from the sphere, driving the party further from Sephiroth.)

Barret
"Ugh...! Is this...... the true power of Sephiroth?"

Cid
"My... my body... I can't control my body...... Uuugh!?"

(Sephiroth draws the party nearer with his mental powers, only to torment them with another fire ring.)

Red XIII
"My front legs...... my hind legs...... my tail's about to tear
off!!"

Cait Sith
"This is definitely not good...... He's way outta our league..."

Yuffie
"I, I don't know if I can... go on..."

(The screen flashes and the party spins in the air like toys.)

Tifa
"Cloud... Cloud..."

Cloud
"Ugh... ugh..."

And in Advent Children, Sephiroth destroyed the top of the Shinra building with his TK.

Did you play FFVII?

About intangibility, do you know a place where I can watch(or read the explanation about) the Asura Senku? Because I don't remember him doing that, and in all debates about Akuma that I had in my life, no one ever said he can turn intangible. This is the first time I'm hearing this.

3. Sooner or later, Akuma will be tired. Principally if Seph summons warriors in the same level of Kadaj or Yazoo or Loz, again, again and again. And even if Akuma defeat them easily, they will help Seph, because of the distraction factor.

About Seph's body, I already explained this in another thread. Kadaj(a spirit body) drunk the Jenova cells inside the box, and they multiplyed and shapeshifted in Seph's appearance.
Seph' body in the movie and Jenova's body in FFVII are exactly the same: A body composed of 100% J-cells.

4. Read the first paragraph of answer number 3.

Seriously, if Sephiroth is feeling lazy, he turns intangible with a thought and create his super barrier(above city-busting attacks) with another thought(or vice-versa), summon the Negative Lifestream and destroy Akuma, or the entire planet.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroth is on a whole different level then Gouki, he stomps him

Of course.

Akuma is a martial artist/demon, with power to destroy an island and splitt a mountain. Sephiroth is basically the evolution of an alien parasite, with power to use a planet to travel the universe and destroy other planets(the explanation of why he never did that, is because he "weakened" himself to fight against a weaker enemy(Cloud), and lost to his own arrogance... Exactly what happened with Pyron, for example).

Yeah I agree with you, Sephiroth is in a completely different level than Akuma. That's obvious.