Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Please show me the Surfers strength feats🙂 Supes v Asmodel is cannon as is every other cosmic/god Supes has beaten.
I can't remember but was that regular Superman or Electric Superman?
While I think that Surfer has potentially greater strength than Superman, the fact remains that he rarely uses the stength increasing tactic in battle. There isn't anything in my mind to suggest that when faced with a being with greater physical strength (at least greater than Surfer's base level) that Surfer would try to match Superman's strength rather than use energy attacks. I think he could, but he seems to prefer to use his other abilities.
As for the Sundipped Superman vs the Runner, the Runner should win simply thanks to his empathic abilities. No version of Superman would *want* to fight him, so the Runner would win by default. 😬
I consider Galactus to be something of an abstract. But again, my larger scope feel of Marvel doesn't have to do with its size or number of planets but its loose relation. It feels more real to me. And while characters like Surfer may be considered important to the universe, were they to die, life would move on. Not integral. Unless you speak of high cosmics who converse with the tribunal etc. Marvel's universe looks at its heroes as upstarts who poke their nose where they don't belong. DC, Superman is the champion of the universe and etc. My main point is, the DCU existed before superman did in comic continuity. To say that it would mourn his passing shortchanges those who preceeded him in continuity. Thats where my problem of it seeming like the DCU started with Clark comes from. Earth should mourn his loss, but the universe shouldn't even sniffle. Thats how i see Marvels treatment of its heroes. Superman is a messiah like figure, but to Earth. Not the cosmos. Thats his original mold. A planetary messiah, not cosmic.
And your definition of icon is relative. Icon status is debilatating for those who aren't icons. They don't get handled with the same respect the icons get. And for icons as well sometimes. Too rigid shielding of a character, with not enough risk in fleshing out the characters, simply because the icon status has to be protected. Marvel has no icons, except maybe Capt America. And i like them better for it. They have cash cows mind you, but no icons.
Oh, and you are right. I don't know why Marvels pantheonic Gods exist. I'm a DC boy solely. Care to explain it to me? I know in 'DC, it has to do with Dream of the Endless and faithetc.
Originally posted by soleran30
Oh I don't think so runner is far far beyond SM ..........plus when SM is getting beat on he will like the runner🙂 His speed and strength are far beyond flash and flash is just below SM
Originally posted by soleran30Norrin will beat Supes. I agree with that. But Norrin is a chump without his board.
So what if he has to amp he has the ability to increase his trength exponentially (so does SM via "stress" and writers. From a power stand point SM gets smoked and badly🙁 That certainly doesn't take away from the runners ability to out do SM which he can and should quickly.
Originally posted by UniOmni
I consider Galactus to be something of an abstract. But again, my larger scope feel of Marvel doesn't have to do with its size or number of planets but its loose relation. It feels more real to me. And while characters like Surfer may be considered important to the universe, were they to die, life would move on. Not integral. Unless you speak of high cosmics who converse with the tribunal etc. Marvel's universe looks at its heroes as upstarts who poke their nose where they don't belong. DC, Superman is the champion of the universe and etc. My main point is, the DCU existed before superman did in comic continuity. To say that it would mourn his passing shortchanges those who preceeded him in continuity. Thats where my problem of it seeming like the DCU started with Clark comes from. Earth should mourn his loss, but the universe shouldn't even sniffle. Thats how i see Marvels treatment of its heroes. Superman is a messiah like figure, but to Earth. Not the cosmos. Thats his original mold. A planetary messiah, not cosmic.
And your definition of icon is relative. Icon status is debilatating for those who aren't icons. They don't get handled with the same respect the icons get. And for icons as well sometimes. Too rigid shielding of a character, with not enough risk in fleshing out the characters, simply because the icon status has to be protected. Marvel has no icons, except maybe Capt America. And i like them better for it. They have cash cows mind you, but no icons.
Oh, and you are right. I don't know why Marvels pantheonic Gods exist. I'm a DC boy solely. Care to explain it to me? I know in 'DC, it has to do with Dream of the Endless and faithetc.
You don't sound like a DC boy "Marvel has no icons and I like them better for it", but anyway, according to Thor 301 one of the several times that all Asgard has been dead. The pantheons exist only because people believe in them and or have believed in them. Thor had to take an amount of energy from all the other pantheons worshipped to restore Asgard. Superman is not shielded, when he cuts lose he simply is Super. In regards to Marvel having no icons if that is true it's because the charachter they have do not tap into the psyche as heroes. Superman you can respect, most Marvel characters have feet of clay. The DC mainstays are archetypes. I like them better for their mythic larger than life feel. "Kingdom Comes" heroes seemed bigger than "Marvels".
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Norrin will beat Supes. I agree with that. But Norrin is a chump without his board.
At least Norrin can still use his power cosmic without his board.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
You don't sound like a DC boy "Marvel has no icons and I like them better for it", but anyway, according to Thor 301 one of the several times that all Asgard has been dead. The pantheons exist only because people believe in them and or have believed in them. Thor had to take an amount of energy from all the other pantheons worshipped to restore Asgard. Superman is not shielded, when he cuts lose he simply is Super. In regards to Marvel having no icons if that is true it's because the charachter they have do not tap into the psyche as heroes. Superman you can respect, most Marvel characters have feet of clay. The DC mainstays are archetypes. I like them better for their mythic larger than life feel. "Kingdom Comes" heroes seemed bigger than "Marvels".
This is a difficult battle to judge. For one, we can barely figure out the regular Supes limits (who's punching through time barriers currently against E2 Superman) are unknown and sun dipped Superman's abilities are even less known. The power of Entropy was bouncing off this guy like it was water. B13 with Imperiex power was far more powerful than runner could ever hope to be. Asmodel would treat runner like a step child. Dominus could smack him around as well. Omega beams...etc.
Originally posted by UniOmni
See, now we get somewhere. I like Marvels conflicted hero approach, because Marvels heroes are more down to earth. Not in power or origin, but in duty, conflicting views etc. Hero is a vague term. Since nothing is black and white.
I see DC as lord of the Rings, where right is right and wrong is wrong. But I see Marvel as Godslayer(new book, read it), where right and wrong are relative to which side of the field you are on. Like someone said of Godslayer in it similarities to LOTR. Tolkien is for kids, Godslayer is for adults. Thats how i see DC and Marvel comparitively.
And DC IS the company i give my money to. I just happen to stick to the Batbooks and Teen Titans and Outsiders. Superman in very small doses. I just wish all characters were given the same consideration the big Three get, is all. I know it won't happen, but its still an ideal i can hope for. Which is ironic since DC is considered the company for Idealistic characters.
Oh, and Superman is shielded. Face it. GLs can do anything, so setting the ai of their rings to auto attack neone with the intent to harm the ring wearer with magic swords able to slice the electrons off atoms should be within it abilities. And the ai has been programmed in the past, so that should be doable. Remember, GLs are walking plot devices, cuz the ring can do ANYTHING!!! GLs are heldback in regards to feats etc, simply cuz superman is the premier hero.
MM has a myriad of powers that enable him to deal with superman level foes, yet he can't take superman?? Shielded he is. He can't become intangible, and then pick apart clarks brain at his leisure?? shielded he is. And if clark doesn't have a defense against something, eventually he will develope one, and it will be written off as latent kyptonian abilities. T-Vo?? Theta bs?? I rest my case. Shielded he is.
Well I agree with some of this, but disagree with most of it. People cry Superman is shielded, the truth is he is just that damn powerful and has expanding abilities the older he gets under the yellow sun. I don't think clay feet is more realistic, just less noble.
The threats in DCU are often darker than Marvels although the heroes remain more noble, Wally and Kyle (two almost children, lose loved ones). Oracle lost her legs, anyone remember the killing joke where Gordon is dressed in bondage gear will a ball gag(long before pulp fiction) andd tortured by dwarves.
Supes has had his share of darkness, his the last survivor of a dead world, for gods sake, it doesn't get much darker for origins than billions dead. The DC heroes are just more noble!
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Well I agree with some of this, but disagree with most of it. People cry Superman is shielded, the truth is he is just that damn powerful and has expanding abilities the older he gets under the yellow sun. I don't think clay feet is more realistic, just less noble.
The threats in DCU are often darker than Marvels although the heroes remain more noble, Wally and Kyle (two almost children, lose loved ones). Oracle lost her legs, anyone remember the killing joke where Gordon is dressed in bondage gear will a ball gag(long before pulp fiction) andd tortured by dwarves.
Supes has had his share of darkness, his the last survivor of a dead world, for gods sake, it doesn't get much darker for origins than billions dead. The DC heroes are just more noble!
Agreed. It's funny how nobody complains about Thanos "character shield."
😮💨
I don't see it the way you do, but thats alright. Superman does have a character shield imo. As do the rest of the big 3. I refuse to believe that a guy with the universes greatest weapon that can do anything, can't beat an uber brick with medium level energy projection. Its DCs fault for creating a character with an uber plot device for a weapon, then won't let the character live up to its full potential. And you are right, Superman has constantly growing powers under a yellow sun. But thats not enough. If he has any exploitable weakness, it has to be rectified. The T-Vo bs is a prime example. But maybe i see things wrong.
But you gotta admit. Superman has a jobber aura third only to Batman and Deathstroke. Dominus was a being who had Kismet, the avatar for Eternity on the ropes. He defeated said badguy in mental combat. People have equated Kismet with Marvels Eternity.... To say that, means mentally Eternity>>>Superman, which isn't the case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be.
And Thanos does have a character shield. I rather badguys have that than heroes. Cuz if i had my way, no one would be safe. Cept for big bad guys. Darkseid wishes he had such a shield. Maybe its your love of the character blinding you to the truth, but ask Draco or Ion or maybe Leonidas. Anybody who's favorite isn't superman. Batman is mine, and i still see the glow of the u tacked on his chest. That u stands for untouchable. You shoulda seen my friends anger at GL Rebirth. The big three are shielded. Nobody is shown as effective as them. Even those more powerful than them.
