wow i had to get all cuaght up... first thing first..MM is more powerful than superman, superman has said so three times by my account....twice i remember off the top of my head. JLA: trial by fire, and Superman: Sacrifice....in both those publications, in a round about way, he said that MM was the most powerful being on Earth.
Also, if anyone is a reader of both companies you'll know that DC is generally more powerful than Marvel even if hardened fanboys dont wanna accept it. While MU has mutants to fall back on, DC guys are usually, aliens, gods, magically empowered, or ppl who fell in a vat of chemicals. what i mean by that is the only time power levels become somewhat of a stalemate is when we are talking about cosmic entites and uber magical other worldly beings. [insert the likes of galactus, dormammu, and the celestials]
but as for Manchester Black and charley, come on ppl MB is way more powerful, this guy doesnt have an ounce of magic in him, yet he still bypassed superman's invulnerability and lobotomized him. by literally using TK to shift around his grey matter and cuased him to convulse...that is til his dumb ass thought that gloating was a good idea and started bragging and allowed supes to recover. MM used his vast TP to manipulate the entire Middle East, and forced them to be peaceful in one afternoon(Also in Trial by fire). and he did this on a whim..YES without the aid of tech.. and we're talking millions of ppl BTW..MM has also stated in Morrsion's JLA run that he can touch every mind in the galaxy, and given enuff time, the whole universe. and tho this is a dead horse being beaten he did mind wipe 70 just as powerful telepaths(white martians)to think that they were ordinary humans, who he later killed single handledly BTW as Fernis. and let me also point out that Onslaught was a combo of both X and magneto's psyche so that doesnt get any major props from me... but all in all MB trumps charley hands down...not becuase o think MB is a more powerful TP, but Bcuz he has TK to boot
i guess the reason onslaught is so powerful is cause of when he got the power of onslaught and franklin richards did he beat them to get those powers or what happend. so would Manchester Black be able to bypass the magical power of the gem of cyttorak and remove it? or whatever bypass the magic metal and get into his brain. unsure would he be able to do all the stuff that X did in the comics unknown but i dont know if X can do the stuff MM said he could do.
Originally posted by DiunicOk, so you're not a DC fanboy - granted!
Sorry you'll misunderstood me. DC is shit next to Marvel for me. Marvel is better. I'll give you an example MM one time connected himself with the entire Earth, that is a feat Prof. X is unable to accomplish without Cerebra and etc... If somebody wanna call me a ****ing fanboy do me a favor and call me a Marvel fanboy.
But do i really have to post it a third time...
Charles connected himself to the entirepopulation of the Skrull homeworld AND channeled all their feelings past Galactus's mental shields into his mind and he did the same thing with a Shiar world's population to defeat Ego - WITHOUT THE HELP OF ANY PSIONIC AMPLIFIER LIKE CEREBRA!!!
He only uses Cerebra, because it's less straining, just like you would use a car instead of walking to get to the next town. Of course you could walk and get there, but why should you, when there is a less difficult and faster way?
On Marvel earth (just the planet itself) telepathy is more difficult to perform for EVERY telepath, because Magneto messed around with the magnetosphere to achieve this exactly.
Originally posted by DiunicHis restrictions are mostly of ethical nature or simply plot devices to prevent the most powerful teep of earth from solving a problem within three or five panels, which would be rather boring. In this forum there are no such restrictions and luckily we have also a lot of nonrestricted feats of Charles like his fight against Dark Phoenix or those i mentioned above, to see his capabilities.
Xavier has too much restrictions on his telepathy. He's very powerful but almost always (I mean sometimes) it seems that something is incapacitating him from solve relatively simple situations that other lesser telepaths would solve.
So why exactly do you think MM is a better telepath than Xavier again?
Because in ten years reading DC and Marvel I saw that DC' characters are the most powerful, except for the nigh-omnipotents cosmic/mystic as Manjaro said. But I don't think you're giving the exact importance to Magneto, he bothers the telepaths but don't really make them less powerful. If I had to talk about feats maybe Xavier could be better TP because MM is too powerful to rely just on TP. Back to the topic even if Xavier was above MB in TP he would lose pretty badly. MB would handle his TP for enough time to behead X with his TK.
Originally posted by manjaro
wow i had to get all cuaght up... first thing first..MM is more powerful than superman, superman has said so three times by my account....twice i remember off the top of my head. JLA: trial by fire, and Superman: Sacrifice....in both those publications, in a round about way, he said that MM was the most powerful being on Earth.Also, if anyone is a reader of both companies you'll know that DC is generally more powerful than Marvel even if hardened fanboys dont wanna accept it. While MU has mutants to fall back on, DC guys are usually, aliens, gods, magically empowered, or ppl who fell in a vat of chemicals. what i mean by that is the only time power levels become somewhat of a stalemate is when we are talking about cosmic entites and uber magical other worldly beings. [insert the likes of galactus, dormammu, and the celestials]
but as for Manchester Black and charley, come on ppl MB is way more powerful, this guy doesnt have an ounce of magic in him, yet he still bypassed superman's invulnerability and lobotomized him. by literally using TK to shift around his grey matter and cuased him to convulse...that is til his dumb ass thought that gloating was a good idea and started bragging and allowed supes to recover. MM used his vast TP to manipulate the entire Middle East, and forced them to be peaceful in one afternoon(Also in Trial by fire). and he did this on a whim..YES without the aid of tech.. and we're talking millions of ppl BTW..MM has also stated in Morrsion's JLA run that he can touch every mind in the galaxy, and given enuff time, the whole universe. and tho this is a dead horse being beaten he did mind wipe 70 just as powerful telepaths(white martians)to think that they were ordinary humans, who he later killed single handledly BTW as Fernis. and let me also point out that Onslaught was a combo of both X and magneto's psyche so that doesnt get any major props from me... but all in all MB trumps charley hands down...not becuase o think MB is a more powerful TP, but Bcuz he has TK to boot
We aren't really talking about whether DC characters are overall more powerful than Marvel ones. (and they are). We are comparing two telepaths.
Maxwell Lord a rather poor TP got past Superman's mental sheild so I'm not impressed. Getting past Galactus's mental sheild is much more impressive to me.
Also conrolling the mind of several people is harder than merely connecting to them. Whne the Ultra Humanite took over the World he needed MM and several Telepaths to control the world, includign Brainwave and Gorrila Grodd. And Xavier took apart Cable's Safe house down to the nails in a split second from across the world with his TK so don't say Charels doen't have TK.
Originally posted by Diunic1) I never said something about Magneto's interference making the teeps less powerful, i only said it would make using tp more difficult on earth, which is true.
Because in ten years reading DC and Marvel I saw that DC' characters are the most powerful, except for the nigh-omnipotents cosmic/mystic as Manjaro said. But I don't think you're giving the exact importance to Magneto, he bothers the telepaths but don't really make them less powerful. If I had to talk about feats maybe Xavier could be better TP because MM is too powerful to rely just on TP. Back to the topic even if Xavier was above MB in TP he would lose pretty badly. MB would handle his TP for enough time to behead X with his TK.
2) Of course MM is allaround more powerful than Xavier, due to his 'all-inclusive-power-package'. But i was talking simply about his telepathic capabilities when i asked you: "So why exactly do you think MM is a better telepath than Xavier again?" (I thought the question was selfexplaining?!)
3) MB would be ill advised not to use ALL his concentration on his mental defenses against a superior teep, cause one stray thought (on using his tk for example) and he'd probably had to act on Xaviers command or he'd be k.o'ed.
Maxwell lords feet was not that impressive if you know how he did it he took YEARS to get a foot hold on supermans mind he didnt just do it yesturday he took a very long time in order to get a hold on supes little by little taking over enough to controll him. anyway if MM is indeed stronger then X then id like to point out that in the past its been shown that Manchester Black has rivaled MM in power.
Originally posted by Warmonger
We aren't really talking about whether DC characters are overall more powerful than Marvel ones. (and they are). We are comparing two telepaths.Maxwell Lord a rather poor TP got past Superman's mental sheild so I'm not impressed. Getting past Galactus's mental sheild is much more impressive to me.
Also conrolling the mind of several people is harder than merely connecting to them. Whne the Ultra Humanite took over the World he needed MM and several Telepaths to control the world, includign Brainwave and Gorrila Grodd. And Xavier took apart Cable's Safe house down to the nails in a split second from across the world with his TK so don't say Charels doen't have TK.
as i posted i was just getting cuaght up with all the things posted on the previous pages, and oh yeah it was cable who took apart the safe house not charles. charles just sent his astral self there to talk to cable as that was the time his god like powers were really setting in, so yeah charles DOESNT have TK
Originally posted by MiderWe've come to a relative consensus, that MM is allaround more powerful because he has multiple strong powers, but in the depatment of telepathy (which we are discussing right now) Xavier is at least on his level, if not even better.
Maxwell lords feet was not that impressive if you know how he did it he took YEARS to get a foot hold on supermans mind he didnt just do it yesturday he took a very long time in order to get a hold on supes little by little taking over enough to controll him. anyway if MM is indeed stronger then X then id like to point out that in the past its been shown that Manchester Black has rivaled MM in power.
Let's look at Onslaught for a moment, not his magnetic or reality warping powers but his telepathy, which is really only Xaivers telepathy with no restrictions. As Onslaught he was able to channel psionic energy from across the galaxy to fuel him, laying waste to the astral representation of Earth. To defeat the Z'nox he not only connected to all of humanity, he gathered and harnessed all of humanities mental energy. This is a telepathic battle, connecting to a another beings mind no matter how many is considered one of telepathys most passive uses unless the minds put up resistance. It only proves that MM has range. I would be more impressed if he could manipulate or psi blasts the entire universe. The constant tampering with the astral planes and magnetosphere have only affected the range of earth telepaths while on earth not their overall power or skill.
Originally posted by MiderI confused now! 🤨
proof about this please? can X touch the whole universe or even the galaxy?
An MM supporter brought up this feat and i admitted, as ridiculous as it may be, this feat would place MM above Xavier in tp.
But then an another MM supporter mentioned, that MM never did that and that he only connected himself to the entire earth, but without any technical help and so would be above Xavier, who would need Cerebra to do so, nonetheless.
In reaction i brought up two examples of Charles connecting to planetary wide populations and standing up against/defeating cosmic entities telepathically without an amplifier, which would make him at least equal, if not superior to an MM connecting to the entire earth population.
So, what is it now? DID MM CONNECTED HIMSELF TO THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OR JUST TO THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE EARTH??? 😠
Please post pics and scans to proof whatever you think is true!!!
lets look at it from another point of view....the same way that in DC it is a pretty known fact that super strong beings(natural, or science born) can be kept in check by magic...conversley in the MU it has always been stated company wide that any charcter with vast psionic.......energy manipulation......or matter transmutation abilites usually have a subconscious ceiling to thier power so that they dont burn themsleves out.
Joseph shattered this threshold, and look what happened to him.. Even with prof. x and storm as an anchor his body still converted to energy and he became one with the magnetosphere, and was gone for good. the point to all this is. Onslaught, dare i say it, was a damn near omnipotent being. in fact, he was a being of pure energy under that armor...yes im going back to the old energy cannot be destroyed thing. therefore, he didnt have a ceiling to his powers.. he could draw upon and channel however many ambient energies he felt like cuz he couldnt be burned out..as HE himself was alerady pure energy. in fact, when you think about it, it wouldnt even be a far stretch to say that he was a mini cosmic being. So i dont think he, and HIS feats should be brought up in this discussion
that being said, going back to the orginal argument, we're talking Prof.x standing alone w/his telepathy here. not his psyche existing independently of his frail body. X has said on many occasions that when he tried to unlock his full potential he felt like he was being pulled in the farthest reaches of the astral plane, the same way that inexperinced speedsters in DC get sucked in the speed force, and are lost if they dont have an anchor.
Even if MM was in the MU and was subjected to the house rules of the farhter you go the more you'll burn out. him being a super strong, invulnerable being with molecular control over his body would be able to go to farther levels than Xavier would be able to go any way, cuz it would stilll boil down to who can push further.. its just like how Sentry can absorb an unlimited amount of energy without burning out, cuz he's invulnerable. So Xavier maybe be the most powerful telepath on MArvel Earth but compared to MM he's a baby, and thats all there is to it
Originally posted by manjaroA quite interesting and sophisticated theory indeed! ✅
lets look at it from another point of view....the same way that in DC it is a pretty known fact that super strong beings(natural, or science born) can be kept in check by magic...conversley in the MU it has always been stated company wide that any charcter with vast psionic.......energy manipulation......or matter transmutation abilites usually have a subconscious ceiling to thier power so that they dont burn themsleves out.Joseph shattered this threshold, and look what happened to him.. Even with prof. x and storm as an anchor his body still converted to energy and he became one with the magnetosphere, and was gone for good. the point to all this is. Onslaught, dare i say it, was a damn near omnipotent being. in fact, he was a being of pure energy under that armor...yes im going back to the old energy cannot be destroyed thing. therefore, he didnt have a ceiling to his powers.. he could draw upon and channel however many ambient energies he felt like cuz he couldnt be burned out..as HE himself was alerady pure energy. in fact, when you think about it, it wouldnt even be a far stretch to say that he was a mini cosmic being. So i dont think he, and HIS feats should be brought up in this discussion
that being said, going back to the orginal argument, we're talking Prof.x standing alone w/his telepathy here. not his psyche existing independently of his frail body. X has said on many occasions that when he tried to unlock his full potential he felt like he was being pulled in the farthest reaches of the astral plane, the same way that inexperinced speedsters in DC get sucked in the speed force, and are lost if they dont have an anchor.
Even if MM was in the MU and was subjected to the house rules of the farhter you go the more you'll burn out. him being a super strong, invulnerable being with molecular control over his body would be able to go to farther levels than Xavier would be able to go any way, cuz it would stilll boil down to who can push further.. its just like how Sentry can absorb an unlimited amount of energy without burning out, cuz he's invulnerable. So Xavier maybe be the most powerful telepath on MArvel Earth but compared to MM he's a baby, and thats all there is to it
But there is one little snag to it:
Xavier is also able to wield his psionic energies in his astral form, without the risk to burn out his body. Accessing his full potential in this state only holds the risk to cut the spiritual link to his body and to become a pure psionic being like Shadowking.
Even fighting in his physical body and burning it out would most probably not stop a telepath of his caliber. Amahl Farouk, Jean and even Emma were able to "survive" the death of their bodies and to live on as psionic beings, because they were too strong as psions, so...
And again i ask: DID MM CONNECTED HIMSELF TO THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OR JUST TO THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE EARTH??? (please present respective evidence in form of pics and scans)
MB might be greater than manhunter but xavier is a BEAST. if you take away his persona you get an insane monstrosity like the original onslguth. xavier is a lot more powerful than people give him crdit for, he broke through galactus's mental barriers without cerebro for heaven's sake. xavier wins. MB is at best at classic exodus level{which was pretty freakin high too}.