Shouldn't Jedi be better duelists than Sith? · Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all... QGJ never took a rest. He decided to meditate during the lull; it was a rather neat piece of characterisation.

And just what did he decide to meditate upon? It certainly wasn't his saber technique. You call it meditating, I call it resting.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly, yes, I have studied sword fighting, and I know people pretty darn good at this sort of thing who have watched that fight,

Then you should know that even the wildest of left to right swings would have deflected Maul's blade from a killing blow. In fact, had Qui-Gon swung his saber thusly and continued the pivot right around, he would most likely have decapitated Maul, who would have over-extended his thrust and been off balance.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I trust Nick Gillard a hell of a lot more than I trust you to do this kind of thing right. He thinks the stun was too much for even a master swordsman, and that's all there is to it.

Sorry, but this is a case of plot necessity taking precedence over character skill. Qui-Gon had to die, so that was how they chose to do so. In a real fight, the blow to the face should not have stunned him as much as it did and prevented him from blocking the thrust (even if it was with a wild swing)
[Edit to fix quotes]

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

I understand what you're saying, but if you got hit in the face with a heavy piece of metal, you wouldn't be stunned long enough to have the guy who did it to simply turn around and stab you in the stomach/chest? I'm sure it was meant to be faster than it appeared on screen. Like they said the Mace/Palps fight was MEANT to be much faster than the actors could move. I know they could speed it up with computers, but then we wouldn't be able to see it...but whatever. He was only stunned dfor a brief moment, thats all it took.

Wesker Plo Koon Rulez!

Regardless of how fast it was -meant- to look, it really isn't that fast. Maul did a half turn to stab, and I felt it was kind of pathetic.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I understand what you're saying, but if you got hit in the face with a heavy piece of metal, you wouldn't be stunned long enough to have the guy who did it to simply turn around and stab you in the stomach/chest?

To be honest, no. If I was hit in the face as Qui-Gon had been, then it would have knocked me back a step or so, but the 19 years of martial arts and sword training I've had would have made me at least swing my blade in front of myself to ward off any further attack while I regained my bearings. I understand that Qui-Gon had to die, and that was the easiest way of doing so, but it was unrealistic that a master swordsman like Qui-Gon would not have been able to block such a rudimentary attack, even while partially disorientated.

Hello Friend KGB

Actually the only source I can think of where the Sith pwn the Jedi is TOTJ.

In both KOTOR(Jedi Exile/Jedi Revan) and the movies (Yoda, Mace), the strongest Jedi can stand against the strongest Sith

zephiel7 Senior Member

Wasn't Revan this powerful Jedi before falling to the dark side?

Revan was a powerful Jedi but fell to the darkside. Afterwards, the Jedi council memory wiped him, and Revan became Jedi again. He recovered his old memory, and became stronger than he ever was as the dark lord. Malak admits it in game.

zephiel7 Senior Member

Even if Revan did turn and remain a jedi and become uber as shit, it would be the exception rather than the rule.

True. All the Jedi exceptions though, were pretty uber for their time.

Fishy Senior Member

Originally posted by zephiel7
Revan was a powerful Jedi but fell to the darkside. Afterwards, the Jedi council memory wiped him, and Revan became Jedi again. He recovered his old memory, and became stronger than he ever was as the dark lord. Malak admits it in game.

I really wouldn't trust Malak his opinion on this.

Malak was an arrogant fool when it came to Revan, and I would trust Revan his judgement on his and Malak his power more then I would trusts Malak his judgement, if Revan even for a moment would have thought Malak was more powerful he would have likely destroyed him in the same manner that Malak destroyed Revan.

I see no real reason to assume Revan became more powerful the second time, he had less time to learn and less things and people to learn from.

zephiel7 Senior Member

But didn't Revan recover his memory at that point? Including everything he learned as the dark lord?

Fishy Senior Member

Originally posted by zephiel7
But didn't Revan recover his memory at that point? Including everything he learned as the dark lord?

Not until 6 months after Kotor...

w00t2112 Ancient Dark Lord

Originally posted by Silent Carnage
Actually the only source I can think of where the Sith pwn the Jedi is TOTJ.
In both KOTOR(Jedi Exile/Jedi Revan) and the movies (Yoda, Mace), the strongest Jedi can stand against the strongest Sith

Thats because in Kotor YOU are playing as the best Jedi, therefore you have to win, or the game will not progress.

The Best of the Sith inclusive of the Ancient Sith, highly outclass the best of the Jedi.

In TOTJ, The most revered Jedi masters, such as Odan Urr were tooled and pwned by Exar Kun, and not only one but many of them, thereby meaning that the Sith are unaviodably more powerful in terms of combat and offensive force abilities.

Silent Carnage KGB

Actually, Kavar put up a good fight with Malak and even cut off his jaw, didn't he?

Wesker Plo Koon Rulez!

The rumor is Kavar did it, but we don't know for sure.

w00t2112 Ancient Dark Lord

Originally posted by Gamblor
Actually, Kavar put up a good fight with Malak and even cut off his jaw, didn't he?

Except Malak, is a rather pathetic and weak Dark Lord, he failed to defeat a memory wiped Revan upon the Star Forge where he had every advantage, and he is certianly not in the top 20

Jack Daniels WOW!

Malak..lol...umm darth dumbass with red formans foot up his ass..LMAO!

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

Well i was just watching the bonus disc of Ep3 the part thats about the stunts, "its all real". And Nick Gilliard said that Anakin has moved up to a level 9 whereas OB1 is still a level 8, and the difference is the Darkside and the Darkside is more aggressive. So by his own admission, the darkside has more "skill" in swordsmanship. So I think that Sith are typically better at sword fighting, but since they cant control their emotions and feelings, that gives the Jedi an advantage.

Fishy Senior Member

Nick can hardly be called a Canon source... What he says is his opinion and moot in a debate really, unless we are debating Nicks opinion.

Akechi Misuhide Unknown

Originally posted by w00t2112
Except Malak, is a rather pathetic and weak Dark Lord, he failed to defeat a memory wiped Revan upon the Star Forge where he had every advantage, and he is certianly not in the top 20

How is Malak a "pathetic and weak Dark Lord"?

Bullshit.

zod69 Restricted

Well Nick Gillard is an expert in the art of sword fighting. I think what he meant about the thing about the dark side giving Anakin the edge. It was because Anakin's form is very aggressive and once he was consumed by the dark side, there was no limit to his aggression. But this was not necessarily a great thing as though he was able to overwhelm Obi Wan to a high degree, it lead to him being arrogant and complacent.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Akechi Misuhide
How is Malak a "pathetic and weak Dark Lord"?
Bullshit.

Comapred to the others he is.