Originally posted by Bardock42
What the...V for Vendetta is amazing nowadays.....actually my favorite by him....so far...And it'S not about personal Preference....Miller did influence Comics quite a bit...so did Moore though.....
I kind of think V died with Thatcherism, it was about home grown fascism in the UK. Thatcher went and the Torys lost. Moore himself admits it's not relevant in the way he wrote it today, his also very worried about Warchowski brothers movie.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I kind of think V died with Thatcherism, it was about home grown fascism in the UK. Thatcher went and the Torys lost. Moore himself admits it's not relevant in the way he wrote it today, his also very worried about Warchowski brothers movie.
Hmm I am looking forward to it...and I think it is very interestig today as well.
And to be honest I hardly think it is that much about England of that time..it can be said for every country....the circumstances were right...great piece of art in any way....
Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm I am looking forward to it...and I think it is very interestig today as well.And to be honest I hardly think it is that much about England of that time..it can be said for every country....the circumstances were right...great piece of art in any way....
Moore wrote it as an extrapolation of what he felt was going on in the eighties.
In his 1983 essay "Behind the Painted Smile," V For Vendetta's author Alan Moore discusses the issue of ideas and genesis. His opening comments refer to the typical scene from any given science fiction convention, where hoards of (usually) young fans pack hotel convention rooms to hear their icons (the writers, actors, directors, and thinkers behind science fact and fiction) speak a few words: one eager kid, voice wavering (thinking, I've been waiting my *whole life* for this moment) asks "Where do you get your ideas from?". The reaction:
We sneer. We lampoon and ridicule the sniveling little oaf before his peers.... We imply that even to have voiced such a question places him irretrievably in the same category as the common pencil-sharpener.... The reason why we do this is pretty straightforward. Firstly, in the dismal and confused sludge of opinion and half- truth that make up all artistic theory and criticism, it is the only question worth asking. Secondly, we don't know the answer and we're scared that somebody will find out. (p. 268).
Rather than ever find myself in such an embarrassing position, I have undertaken to ferret out the origins of Moore's ideas. The task has been unbelievably arduous, not because any of the sources were too difficult to find, but because Moore covered so much ground. I found myself walking from one end of the library to the other, consulting science dictionaries, rose-naming serials, history books, films, and musical compact discs. I even explored some of my questions on the Internet, sending inquiries about such topics Son of Sam and Aliester Crowley, and receiving answers from around the world!
Moore has apparently learned that his questioners want to know about his ideas; at the present Moore is working on a graphic series called "From Hell" which features as its main character Jack the Ripper. I was unable to locate any issues of this work, but I am told that it is entirely annotated by Moore (Coates, personal communication). This is certainly unusual for a "comic book" but Moore is clearly addressing the issues of origin more clearly, perhaps for himself as well as for the reader.
In developing the originalV For Vendetta series, Moore and Lloyd "wanted to do something that would be uniquely British rather than emulate the vast amount of American material on the market," (Moore 270). Both were political pessimists, and decided that the in world they wanted to portray "the future would be pretty grim, bleak and totalitarian, thus giving us a convenient antagonist to play our hero off against," (Moore 270). They played with ideas, borrowing from books like _Farenheit_451_, until Moore, in frustration, compiled a list of the elements he wanted to draw together for the piece. He writes:
The list was something as follows: Orwell. Huxley. Thomas Disch. Judge Dredd. Harlan Ellison's "Repent Harlequin! Said the Ticktockman." "Catman" and "Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World" by the same author. Vincent Price's Dr. Phibes and Theatre of Blood. David Bowie. The Shadow. Nightraven. Batman. Farenheit 451. The writings of the New Worlds school of science fiction. Max Ernst's painting "Europe After the Rains." Thomas Pynchon. The atmosphere of British Second World War films. The Prisoner. Robin Hood. Dick Turpin... (270)
Also of great import in the development of V For Vendetta was, obviously, the political climate of England and the West during the early 1980s. Moore cites that the Conservative party would "obviously lose the 1983 elections." With the Labour Party in charge, he reasoned, certain changes would follow: they would remove all American missiles from British soil to prevent Britain "from becoming a major target in the event of a nuclear war." From these assumptions, Moore claims, it was a small step "from that point up until the Fascist takeover in the post-holocaust Britain of the 1990's." Of course, the Conservatives, not the Labour party, won the 1983 elections. In his 1988 introduction to the American DC comics edition of the book, Moore addressed his earlier comments in light of actual political history:
There is a certain amount of political inexperience upon my part evident in [the] earlier episodes. Back in 1981 the term 'nuclear winter' had not passed into common currency, and although my guess about climatic upheaval came pretty close to the eventual truth of the situation, the fact remains that the story to hand suggests that a nuclear war, even a limited one, might be survivable. To the best of my current knowledge, this is not the case. Naivete can also be detected in my supposition that it would take something as melodramatic as a near-miss nuclear conflict to nudge England towards fascism.... The simple fact that much of the historical background of the story proceeds from a predicted Conservative defeat in the 1982 General Election should tell you how reliable we were in our roles as Cassandras.
Citing Margaret Thatcher's confidence in unbroken Conservative leadership "well into the next century," police vans with rotating video cameras mounted on top, and the circulating ideas in England of concentration camps for AIDS victims and the eradication of homosexuality "even as an abstract concept," Moore in 1988 obviously felt that, despite the fact that the Labor party didn't win the election. his other predictions were coming true.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I read the quote too...but that doesn't change the fact that it meant a lot to me...and although he might not have intended it that way, it is as important as it was back then.
I loved it when it came out, not as much as Miracleman which I still consider his greatest work, and the greatest work in comics ever. I still enjoy it now it's just lost it's relevance. I hope the movie deviates enough to be good but keeps the core themes of corruption and oppression and one person making a difference.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I loved it when it came out, not as much as Miracleman which I still consider his greatest work, and the greatest work in comics ever. I still enjoy it now it's just lost it's relevance. I hope the movie deviates enough to be good but keeps the core themes of corruption and oppression and one person making a difference.
How do you think it is pointless? The way the fascism came about is jsut as possible as ever.....
Just found this site which kind of sums up my feelings better than I can.
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/anarchism/writers/anarcho/reviews/movie/VforVendetta.html
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Yup but it was a social commentary on the UK of the time, that part doesn't scan.
True...it can be a Social Commentray of lots of countries today.....and...when you had jsut read the Comic without knowing about the idea behind it...do you think you would have felt the commentary on the UK?
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Lee and Kirby are much more influential than Moore in that field.
I think for the time they were, I think for the last twenty years Moore is more influential. Miracleman gives way to Supreme Power. Watchmen gives way to..........
Your point is well made but if you read Ditko and Lee or Kirby and Lee from the mid sixties in 198o you would find them dated. Watchmen twenty years on (it came out in 86) still kills 99% of all other comics books dead, although as (mad) John Byrne said "it's realism went out the window when the psychic "alien" teleports in from the island and explodes". nuff said, excelsior Moore 😉
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I think for the time they were, I think for the last twenty years Moore is more influential. Miracleman gives way to Supreme Power. Watchmen gives way to..........
Your point is well made but if you read Ditko and Lee or Kirby and Lee from the mid sixties in 198o you would find them dated. Watchmen twenty years on (it came out in 86) still kills 99% of all other comics books dead, although as (mad) John Byrne said "it's realism went out the window when the psychic "alien" teleports in from the island and explodes". nuff said, excelsior Moore 😉
Same with The Beatles nowadays. Influence is influence. It mutates and spreads.
Obviously Moore is the most influential of recent times, but the thread covers 100 years.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Same with The Beatles nowadays. Influence is influence. It mutates and spreads.Obviously Moore is the most influential of recent times, but the thread covers 100 years.
You could argue Philip Wylies "Gladiator" or Rice Burroughs "John Carter" etc started it all easily. Siegal and Schuster (although rip off merchants) could be considered the most influential in that case easily. As I said no right or wrong AC went for Moore and a good case can be made.
Re: Re: Your ten most influential people of the last 100 years
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Physics: Einstein
Literature: Fyodor Dostoevsky
Classical Music: Rebecca Helferich Clarke
Popular Music: Bob Marley
Politics: John Kennedy
Art: Andy Warhol
Peace Prize: Martin Luther King
Good choices Deck.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
You could argue Philip Wylies "Gladiator" or Rice Burroughs "John Carter" etc started it all easily. Siegal and Schuster (although rip off merchants) could be considered the most influential in that case easily. As I said no right or wrong AC went for Moore and a good case can be made.
It's not about who 'started it', though. It is about who has been the most influential.
As for the Superman creators: you could make a case, although not as convincing.
Either way, that's not the point I made.