Originally posted by BrockalizerHP DD never died until he faced Imperiex. That means he is the same HP DD. Superman beat down a version before and after HP DD. When DD evolved intelligence it made him WEAKER as the comic explicitly said. Reading is fundamental.
So it happened in OWAW but it's not the same? Whenever Doomsday is "killed" when it comes back it is supposed to be even more powerful than before. Waverider made that pretty clear. Meaning the version Superman beat down at the end should've been just as powerful as HP Doomsday except evolved to the point that Imperiex's blast would no longer "kill" it.
Doomsday may be able to come back from death, but so can Drax. Except when Drax comes back he is evolved to a point where he can kill Thanos.Irrelevant. DD will not be dying in this fight. Rather he would be killing Drax before he can make an action. Remember a ko is a win as well.
When Drax had the power gem Thanos had the Reality Gem, meaning that that version of Drax's baseline would have been strong enough to kill Thanos with the Reality Gem. If that is who Doomsday is facing AND he has the Power Gem then he is far more powerful than anything HP Doomsday had ever faced, including Superman. He is powerful enough to not only kill Thanos, but also withstand a blast from Thanos WITH a Cosmic Cube, destroy stars, and is capable of generating and absorbing forces strong enough to destroy stars, planets, and moons.You can't use his feats against Thanos for the reasoning I already brought up. You must rebutt my rebuttal and not repeat the same thing that was rebutted in the first place. Otherwise, you are just talking and not actually debating.
DD proved stronger than a being who is even more powerful than Drax. The star feat is nothing compared to what Superman has done (even though it was an energy causation feat and not a pure strength feat). DD withstood blows from Superman and he withstood the OE. Being able to destroy a planet (many heralds can do this) or star doesn't mean you can even affect DD.
Fast enough to intercept a starship. He survived fighting not only Thanos, but Tyrant as well, yet he's not powerful enough or fast enough to survive fighting Doomsday?
In Hunter/Prey, Superman was able to cut into Doomsday's hide with an energy sword, what makes you think that Drax can't simply take it's head off with an energy blast. And how do you figure that Doomsday is the most durable non abstract other than Juggernaut? You're forgetting Destroyer, Ultron, World Breaker Hulk, and Kurse. That's just on the Marvel side.No one knows the property of the sword that cut DD. It could have been such to cut ANY being in the universe. But DD quickly healed and evolved on the spot. Since DD resisted the OE in the same arc then we must take it that the sword's energy is greater than the OE (or we must call PIS). I take it you never read DOS (one of the weaker DDs)? Because if you had, you would know that Drax wouldn't be able to put a scratch on DOS with energy blasts. You probably only looked at scans and not read the whole book. HP is far more powerful and has resisted the OE which dwarfs any blast under skyfather level.
I'll summary the points you have to debate:
1. DD will scrap Drax before he can make an action.
2. DD is stronger than a being who has greater feats than Drax.
3. DD resisted the OE, cementing the fact he is one of the most durable beings in comics (greater than WWH, Ultron, Destroyer, Kurse, etc.).
4. Assuming the small possibility that Drax gets a hit on DD and it affects him in the slightest then DD will evolve greater resistance and now easily spite him.
Originally posted by the DarkoneA character doesn't have the ability to do something without them SHOWING evidence of it in comics. That means Drax wouldn't be able to draw energy from the PG well. It took Champion a long time just to get enough power to destroy a planet. Drax has never shown even to draw from the PG at the slow rate of Champion.
Dud you don't know 🤨 you are talking about, Classic Drax would have the ability to tap into Gem, basically having the Gem does increase you durability and strength. Classic Drax had the ability to absorb cosmic energy to increase his abilities at will, like the eternals. Classic Drax was strong enough to fight Thanos, and their blows caused the planet to blow up from the sheer force.I wonder as does everybody else, do think before you speak, or the crap that comes out your brain over whelms your common sense or is it just pure ignorance!?
A planet's destruction through a shared feat is peanuts compared to DD or any lower being for that matter (like SS or Superman). I'm tired of people bringing up garbage feats like they are supposed to mean something. Superman is capable of exerting more than 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than one Earth weight to shatter the Earth.
Lastly, the feat was even more garabe since the planet destroyed itself. Drax and Thanos caused an instability in the planet where the planet became unbalanced and blew itself up. It is like me pushing the button to a bomb. Of course I had the strength to push the button but that doesn't mean the destruction was all entirely under my force.
Lowly Gladiator was able to destroy a planet by his lonesome, as well as Surfer and several other lowly beings.
Originally posted by h1a8
A character doesn't have the ability to do something without them SHOWING evidence of it in comics. That means Drax wouldn't be able to draw energy from the PG well. It took Champion a long time just to get enough power to destroy a planet. Drax has never shown even to draw from the PG at the slow rate of Champion.A planet's destruction through a shared feat is peanuts compared to DD or any lower being for that matter (like SS or Superman). I'm tired of people bringing up garbage feats like they are supposed to mean something. Superman is capable of exerting more than 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than one Earth weight to shatter the Earth.
Lastly, the feat was even more garabe since the planet destroyed itself. Drax and Thanos caused an instability in the planet where the planet became unbalanced and blew itself up. It is like me pushing the button to a bomb. Of course I had the strength to push the button but that doesn't mean the destruction was all entirely under my force.
Lowly Gladiator was able to destroy a planet by his lonesome, as well as Surfer and several other lowly beings.
Your ignorance of comics is beyond comprehension!
Originally posted by h1a8
I'll summary the points you have to debate:1. DD will scrap Drax before he can make an action.
2. DD is stronger than a being who has greater feats than Drax.
3. DD resisted the OE, cementing the fact he is one of the most durable beings in comics (greater than WWH, Ultron, Destroyer, Kurse, etc.).
4. Assuming the small possibility that Drax gets a hit on DD and it affects him in the slightest then DD will evolve greater resistance and now easily spite him.
1.Drax has taken on opponents a lot more powerful than Doomsday and survived. He may not have won the battle but that certainly shows that he is more than capable of taking a sh*t load of damage. When Doomsday attacks he usually either A.) punches or kicks once or twice, the impact sends them flying away (which is usually enough against most opponents) and then continues on his merry way, B. Causes massive collateral damage and the resulting explosion or structural collapse hurts his opponents and again Doomsday keeps moseying along, or C. grabs his opponent and either throws them really far or slams them to the ground once or twice (again this is usually enough for most opponents) and the walks away. My point is Doomsday is NOT going to one shot Drax and Drax doesn't suffer battle fatigue the same way Superman does. Doomsday doesn't have the attention span to continue the relentless attack required to take out someone in Drax's league. He would get in one or two good hits, the attack would cause separation and Doomsday would start walking away.
Drax is fast enough to counter the Silver Surfer, why isn't he fast enough to counter Doomsday?
2. Simply saying someone is stronger is meaningless. As I've already said Flash can beat up Superman, that doesn't mean that Flash is stronger than Superman. People have SAID the Sentry possesses "the power of a million exploding suns", that doesn't make it true. Doomsday doesn't really have any individual strength feats to prove that he rivals Superman in that catagory. Until he does all you have is people speculating about it. Drax actually has feats to back up his strength. He's destroyed stars, planets, and asteroids with his own hands/fists. Planets and moons have been destroyed as a result of his battles with Thanos. How many planets have been destroyed in Doomsday's battles...with anyone? (Bylan 5 doesn't count, it wasn't destroyed, just rendered uninhabitable)
3. Surviving the Omega effect may be impressive by DC universe standards, in the Marvel universe Drax has survived a blast from Thanos with a cosmic cube (a version of Thanos I'd argue is much more powerful than the version of Darkseid in Hunter/Prey). Drax has survived in the interiors of stars unscathed , as well as survived the explosions of entire planets.
4. You keep maintaining that Doomsday will instantly evolve to Drax's attacks. Doomsday does evolve, but not instantly. In Hunter/Prey when Superman cut him with the energy sword, the cuts healed quickly not instantly and the sword didn't stop working in Doomsday, Doomsday simply attacked Superman and he stopped using it.The version that Brainiac controlled was HP Doomsday. Doomsday didn't instantly adapt to Brainiacs mind control. And I know that New Krypton is not Hunter Prey, but Doomsday didn't instantly evolve when he was pummeled to death by a couple dozen pissed of Kryptonians. As you stated the sword Superman used to cut into Doomsday in Hunter/Prey was an "unknown" energy. Well if Doomsday fought Drax and Drax blasted Doomsday that would be "unknown" (at least to Doomsday) energy as well. If he can be cut but "unknown" energy, why can't it take his head off?
All of Drax's previously mentioned feats were accomplished WITHOUT the Power Gem. Just because you choose to ignore, or are ignorant of the power (pun intended) of this artifact doesn't mean that it is useless. There are decades worth story lines and encounters involving people wielding the Power Gem that dispute your claim. The Power Gem might be useless in the DC Universe, but this fight isn't taking place in the DC Universe.
Originally posted by BrockalizerNo he hasn't. But your point is irrelevant. If CA has survived an encounter with Hulk then that doesn't mean he can beat Colossus. And Colossus has survived against Gladiator. That doesn't mean he can beat Superman.
1.Drax has taken on opponents a lot more powerful than Doomsday and survived.
When Doomsday attacks he usually either A.) punches or kicks once or twice, the impact sends them flying away (which is usually enough against most opponents) and then continues on his merry way, B. Causes massive collateral damage and the resulting explosion or structural collapse hurts his opponents and again Doomsday keeps moseying along, or C. grabs his opponent and either throws them really far or slams them to the ground once or twice (again this is usually enough for most opponents) and the walks away.Wrong! DD has comboed many characters to ko or death in his history. This is a forum fight, so DD is going to continue to battle until the fight is over.
My point is Doomsday is NOT going to one shot Drax and Drax doesn't suffer battle fatigue the same way Superman does.DD may not one shot Drax be he sure will combo him up something nice.
Doomsday doesn't have the attention span to continue the relentless attack required to take out someone in Drax's league. He would get in one or two good hits, the attack would cause separation and Doomsday would start walking away.False! He has done so more than once.
Mary Jane is fast enough to counter SS provided SS is not using his speed. Hulk has tag speedsters when they were not using their speed. That doesn't make him as fast as them.
Drax is fast enough to counter the Silver Surfer, why isn't he fast enough to counter Doomsday?
Agreed. That is why DD beats Drax even more, because of strength, speed, durability, evolving ability, bony protrusions, and HF. DD can win by simply sending a claw through Drax's brain the same way he sent it though Superman's shoulder (like liquid).2. Simply saying someone is stronger is meaningless. As I've already said Flash can beat up Superman, that doesn't mean that Flash is stronger than Superman.
People have SAID the Sentry possesses "the power of a million exploding suns", that doesn't make it true. Doomsday doesn't really have any individual strength feats to prove that he rivals Superman in that catagory.He does have the feats. In OWAW he was shown to strike far harder than Superman against the probes. He basically was destroying probes like tissue paper. That is far stronger than Superman.
He's destroyed stars, planets, and asteroids with his own hands/fists. Planets and moons have been destroyed as a result of his battles with Thanos. How many planets have been destroyed in Doomsday's battles...with anyone? (Bylan 5 doesn't count, it wasn't destroyed, just rendered uninhabitable)Destroying planets and stuff is childs play compared to what Superman has done. Drax Destroyed stars with energy powers, help to destroy a planet indirectly (the planet destroyed itself after an imbalance was formed). DD being stronger than Superman is enough for me. Superman is stronger than Drax and DD is stronger than Superman. You do the math. Note: not all companies use the same physics when characters fight. Many beings in D.C. are powerful enough to destroy planets or move them around like chess pieces yet the writer don't have them do such things like destroying planets and moons when they fight someone. Almost all of Drax's appearances have him fighting someone without destroying a planet.
Again surviving inside stars is childs play. Second, DD doesn't blast and so Drax's durability against blasts is irrelevant in regards to physical blunt force trauma. My point is that any blast made by Drax is just going to tickle DD.3. Surviving the Omega effect may be impressive by DC universe standards, in the Marvel universe Drax has survived a blast from Thanos with a cosmic cube (a version of Thanos I'd argue is much more powerful than the version of Darkseid in Hunter/Prey). Drax has survived in the interiors of stars unscathed , as well as survived the explosions of entire planets.
The comic made it clear that DD adapts to any situation on the fly. DD will not only heal back but gain resistance against the attack so that it won't damage him again. This was clear by the writer's intention. And it was shown numerous times as evidence.4. You keep maintaining that Doomsday will instantly evolve to Drax's attacks. Doomsday does evolve, but not instantly. In Hunter/Prey when Superman cut him with the energy sword, the cuts healed quickly not instantly and the sword didn't stop working in Doomsday, Doomsday simply attacked Superman and he stopped using it.
The version that Brainiac controlled was HP Doomsday. Doomsday didn't instantly adapt to Brainiacs mind control.Mind control is different than physical damage. DD adapts to what is trying to kill him. That is the nature of his powers (to resist physical damage).
And I know that New Krypton is not Hunter Prey, but Doomsday didn't instantly evolve when he was pummeled to death by a couple dozen pissed of Kryptonians.If you know it is not HP DD then what you said is irrelevant.
As you stated the sword Superman used to cut into Doomsday in Hunter/Prey was an "unknown" energy.No. It was a more powerful energy. The OE was new to DD yet it did nothing to him.
Well if Doomsday fought Drax and Drax blasted Doomsday that would be "unknown" (at least to Doomsday) energy as well. If he can be cut but "unknown" energy, why can't it take his head off?The same reason it can't take Thor's head off or Thanos or Hulk's or anyone of herald level or above you can think of. Remember DD is still one of the most durable beings in comics.
First of all it has been well established in comics that beings either didn't know how to use the infinity gems or they didn't know how to use them effectively. Drax must at least show how much he can draw from the PG at a given time. As far as I'm concerned he appeared weaker with the Gem than without. After all, he though it was just a pretty stone that did nothing. Even Champion needed much time and effort in order to reach planet busting status. Are you telling me I should assume Drax would use it better than Champion even when he has not shown any evidence of it?All of Drax's previously mentioned feats were accomplished WITHOUT the Power Gem. Just because you choose to ignore, or are ignorant of the power (pun intended) of this artifact doesn't mean that it is useless. There are decades worth story lines and encounters involving people wielding the Power Gem that dispute your claim. The Power Gem might be useless in the DC Universe, but this fight isn't taking place in the DC Universe.
Originally posted by h1a8
No he hasn't. But your point is irrelevant. If CA has survived an encounter with Hulk then that doesn't mean he can beat Colossus. And Colossus has survived against Gladiator. That doesn't mean he can beat Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! DD has comboed many characters to ko or death in his history. This is a forum fight, so DD is going to continue to battle until the fight is over. DD may not one shot Drax be he sure will combo him up something nice.
Originally posted by h1a8
False! He has done so more than once. Mary Jane is fast enough to counter SS provided SS is not using his speed. Hulk has tag speedsters when they were not using their speed. That doesn't make him as fast as them.
When MJ countered Surfer I highly doubt that Surfer was in fear of his life. Surfer is arguably FASTER than Superman. If Drax is fast enough to counter Surfer why isn't he fast enough to counter Doomsday? Doomsday's speed hasn't prevented from being hit by several people supposedly "slower" than Superman, why would it prevent him from being attacked by Drax?
Originally posted by h1a8Agreed. That is why DD beats Drax even more, because of strength, speed, durability, evolving ability, bony protrusions, and HF. DD can win by simply sending a claw through Drax's brain the same way he sent it though Superman's shoulder (like liquid). He does have the feats. In OWAW he was shown to strike far harder than Superman against the probes. He basically was destroying probes like tissue paper. That is far stronger than Superman. Destroying planets and stuff is childs play compared to what Superman has done.
Drax has strength, speed, durability and accelerated healing as well. Hardly unique traits. You have yet to irrefutably prove that they are SUPERIOR to Drax's. Doomsday has broken Superman's bones. So what so has Zod. Doomsday withstood the OE. So what, so has Superman. Doomsday has come back from death. So what, Drax has too. Sure Doomsday tore through the Imperiex probes with less effort than Superman Is that supposed to impress me? It's simple science. Doomsday's fists are covered in bony spikes. When Doomsday punches a rigid object such as metal the force is going to be concentrated in a much smaller area (the tip of the spikes) as opposed to the much larger surface area of Superman's fist. That's how martial arts masters are able to shatter brick with their bare hands. The point is, that is if you covered Superman's, Wonder Woman's, Flash's, Captain Marvel's, or Martian Manhunter's fist, they probably would have torn through them too.
Originally posted by h1a8
Drax Destroyed stars with energy powers, help to destroy a planet indirectly (the planet destroyed itself after an imbalance was formed).
Originally posted by h1a8
DD being stronger than Superman is enough for me. Superman is stronger than Drax and DD is stronger than Superman. You do the math. Note: not all companies use the same physics when characters fight. Many beings in D.C. are powerful enough to destroy planets or move them around like chess pieces yet the writer don't have them do such things like destroying planets and moons when they fight someone. Almost all of Drax's appearances have him fighting someone without destroying a planet. Again surviving inside stars is childs play.
Drax has been said to have access to limitless power, Doomsday hasn't. Drax is said to have been powerful enough to destroy an entire Universe, by no less than Captain Mar-Vell himself, Doomsday isn't. You want math, try this on for size Drax is stronger than Silver Surfer, and Thanos. Both of which would hand Superman his ass.
Originally posted by h1a8
Second, DD doesn't blast and so Drax's durability against blasts is irrelevant in regards to physical blunt force trauma. My point is that any blast made by Drax is just going to tickle DD.
Originally posted by h1a8
The comic made it clear that DD adapts to any situation on the fly. DD will not only heal back but gain resistance against the attack so that it won't damage him again. This was clear by the writer's intention. And it was shown numerous times as evidence.
Again he didn't instantly adapt to the energy sword used by Superman. He didn't instantly adapt to Waverider effort to send him further into the time stream. If Doomsday literally could evolve and adapt to anything he is faced with, than he would have adapted to entropy and Imperiex's beam would have be harmless. He either evovles to counter ANYTHING or he doesn't, there is no grey area.
Originally posted by h1a8
Remember DD is still one of the most durable beings in comics.
Originally posted by h1a8
First of all it has been well established in comics that beings either didn't know how to use the infinity gems or they didn't know how to use them effectively. Drax must at least show how much he can draw from the PG at a given time. As far as I'm concerned he appeared weaker with the Gem than without. After all, he though it was just a pretty stone that did nothing. Even Champion needed much time and effort in order to reach planet busting status. Are you telling me I should assume Drax would use it better than Champion even when he has not shown any evidence of it?
Originally posted by BrockalizerHas nothing to do with beating someone. DD is stronger than Superman, more durable, has protrusions for extra damage, can evolve, has HF, is fast as hell, etc. That is enough to rip Drax to shreds easily.
Yet Doomsday beating Superman automatically means that he can beat Drax?
A ko is a win. DD koed Darkseid. DD has killed or koed many many other characters proving that it is in his character to do so.If you'll recall in Hunter/Prey he didn't do that, and this fight involves HP Doomsday. When he fought Darkied he attacked and walked away without finishing him off.
Superman is much faster that Surfer in battle situations. In travel speed Surfer may have a slight edge but Superman has traveled to other galaxies in a matter of moments. Drax isn't fast enough to counter anyone using great speed. Countering someone that is not using their speed doesn't prove you can do so if the character decided to use their speed.When MJ countered Surfer I highly doubt that Surfer was in fear of his life. Surfer is arguably FASTER than Superman. If Drax is fast enough to counter Surfer why isn't he fast enough to counter Doomsday? Doomsday's speed hasn't prevented from being hit by several people supposedly "slower" than Superman, why would it prevent him from being attacked by Drax?
Drax doesn't have speed. He can only fly at fast speeds after spending time accelerating to those speeds. Who cares about breaking Superman's bones? That's not my argument. DD went through Superman like he was made of liquid. That only proves he would shred Drax with ease.Drax has strength, speed, durability and accelerated healing as well. Hardly unique traits. You have yet to irrefutably prove that they are SUPERIOR to Drax's. Doomsday has broken Superman's bones. So what so has Zod. Doomsday withstood the OE. So what, so has Superman. Doomsday has come back from death. So what, Drax has too. Sure Doomsday tore through the Imperiex probes with less effort than Superman Is that supposed to impress me? It's simple science. Doomsday's fists are covered in bony spikes. When Doomsday punches a rigid object such as metal the force is going to be concentrated in a much smaller area (the tip of the spikes) as opposed to the much larger surface area of Superman's fist. That's how martial arts masters are able to shatter brick with their bare hands. The point is, that is if you covered Superman's, Wonder Woman's, Flash's, Captain Marvel's, or Martian Manhunter's fist, they probably would have torn through them too.
Superman > Drax so anything Superman did that was awesome only helps DD's image, and not hurt it. You must use examples of lower beings doing the feats to refute me.
No, cutting and shattering are two different things. DD's protrusions help penetrate but not shatter.Try breaking a board with your fists vs. stabbing it with a sharp object. Try hitting something with a sledge hammer vs. a sledge hammer with several 2" sharp points on it. The first strike will shatter the object and the second will only stab and get stuck. Plus, this is comics, it wasn't the writer's intention to have DD destroy the probes easier than Superman because of the protrusions and science of hitting with sharp points, but rather he was trying to show that DD is much more powerful than Superman.
There doesn't have to be any mention of using energy based powers if a character has energy based powers and performs a feat that needs energy based powers. If Drax possessed no energy based powers then we must assume he did it by pure strength. But since he does then we must assume he used them, because otherwise it is totally illogical. Also, you are being hyprocritical trying to use Real Physics to downplay DD's destroying of the probes while at the same time trying to throw it out in the Drax feat. You are caught with the double standard bias.When he destroyed the star dove into the interior grabbed the star core and physically ripped it out. The was NO mention of him using energy powers and NONE were included in the artwork.
When he destroyed the planet he arrived in the first and second panels, landed on the surface of the planet in the following panel, screamed Thanos's name and prepared to punch the surface of the planet in the next panel, and in the final panel the planet is obliterated. Again NO mention of his using energy powers, and NO mention of the planet being imbalanced and destroying itself. If my scanner was working I'd post them just to prove my point.
What has been said and what has been shown are two different things. Proof is in the doing. Remember potential is meaningless if it remains untapped. It's amazing how you use the dumbest logic ever. How can you conclude from Drax being stronger than Surfer and Surfer being able to beat Superman that Drax is stronger than Superman? Surfer would beat Superman by exploiting his weakness. Surfer would get his ass handed to him if he tried to fight Superman physically. ABC logic doesn't work here since you are trying to transfer strength to a power set that has nothing to do with strength. Why don't you argue that Drax is stronger than Thanos on another thread (like a h2h thread) and see what happens? Your arguments are getting worst. Please tighten them up. It rather sounds as if you are desperate and trying to think of anything to help Drax out here.Drax has been said to have access to limitless power, Doomsday hasn't. Drax is said to have been powerful enough to destroy an entire Universe, by no less than Captain Mar-Vell himself, Doomsday isn't. You want math, try this on for size Drax is stronger than Silver Surfer, and Thanos. Both of which would hand Superman his ass.
The evidence is that DD tanked the OE. That proves any blast made by Drax would only tickle him at best.You assume that they would tickle without any actual evidence. When Superman cut into him with the sword, he didn't "adapt" to it. Sure the wounds healed quickly, but that doesn't mean that the sword would no longer be effective. Superman simply stopped using it after Doomsday attacked him. You can't prove that the energy in the sword is more powerful than Drax's energy blasts, once again you are assuming.
I don't recall the sword doing damage to DD again after he healed up. Stop making stuff up and simply go by the writer's intentions. DD was intended to evolve on the fly and now be beyond death. The only thing in the universe that can end him was the END OF TIME.
That is the only way to beat DD. Is kill him before he adapts. You must one shot him to do so. Drax isn't one shotting DD, especially with a claw up his ass.Again he didn't instantly adapt to the energy sword used by Superman. He didn't instantly adapt to Waverider effort to send him further into the time stream. If Doomsday literally could evolve and adapt to anything he is faced with, than he would have adapted to entropy and Imperiex's beam would have be harmless. He either evovles to counter ANYTHING or he doesn't, there is no grey area.
Juggs can't lose in a forum fight unless there is bfr or mind rape or removing his enchantment.So is Juggernaut, he still can get his ass kicked. What's your point?
Drax thinks it is an accessory too. He calls it a pretty stone for crying out loud. But what does that matter when Drax has never shown on panel to use it effectively. We can only go by what's shown on panel and not what is speculated to be.WRONG!!!! Champion didn't use the Power Gem effectively because he thought it was just an accessory and wasn't able to consciously tap into it. The Hood uses his Gems pretty effectively, Thanos was able to utilize their power when he was acquiring them, Adam Warlock used his gem pretty effectively as did other members of the Infinity Watch. Doctor Doom was able to use the gems to kill Celestials for Chists' sake. The power Gem not only allows for the user to wield potentially unlimited power, but also allows for the duplication of any physical or superhuman ability. That's doesn't mean any physical or Superhuman abilities except for Doomsday's.
Originally posted by h1a8
A ko is a win. DD koed Darkseid. DD has killed or koed many many other characters proving that it is in his character to do so.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman > Drax so anything Superman did that was awesome only helps DD's image, and not hurt it. You must use examples of lower beings doing the feats to refute me.
Originally posted by h1a8
There doesn't have to be any mention of using energy based powers if a character has energy based powers and performs a feat that needs energy based powers. If Drax possessed no energy based powers then we must assume he did it by pure strength. But since he does then we must assume he used them, because otherwise it is totally illogical.
Originally posted by h1a8
DD was intended to evolve on the fly and now be beyond death. The only thing in the universe that can end him was the END OF TIME. That is the only way to beat DD. Is kill him before he adapts.
Originally posted by h1a8
Juggs can't lose in a forum fight unless there is bfr or mind rape or removing his enchantment.
Originally posted by h1a8
Drax thinks it is an accessory too. He calls it a pretty stone for crying out loud.
Originally posted by BrockalizerWhat a waste of typing. A win is a ko or a kill. The moment someone dies is the end of the fight. Those are the forum rules. It is irrelevant if someone can come back from death.
The forum rules stipulate that the combatants are fighting in accordance with their character and to full capacity unless otherwise stipulated right? Meaning, if you have two characters with similar powers and abilities and if those abilities are well known one would assume that they would also carry over into the forum battle unless other wise stipulated. For example if it the battle is Batman-Bruce w/o tool belt vs Batman-Dick, then logically one would assume that Dick keeps his utility belt. In this battle you have two opponents with similar abilities. There is one particular ability that they both share that I'd like to point out. Doomsday and Drax both share the ability to be killed and to resurrect. This is well documented with both characters. In Hunter/Prey when Superman learns of Doomsday's origin and ability to come back the only doubt expressed regarded Superman's ability to kill Doomsday again, not that Doomsday was incapable of being killed again. Conversely when Drax is killed, he too comes back to life. It is well within character for both adversaries, upon death, to resurrect and keep fighting like nothing happened. However, the thread clearly stated that only Doomsday has two lives, there was no mention of a limit on the number of times Drax can resurrect. Fighting to full capacity and in character indicates that in the event Drax is killed by anyone, he will continue to resurrect indefinitely until Thanos is dead.
The number of Thanos powers > The number of DD's powers but HP DD>Thanos as far as in a fight against each other.Thanos > Doomsday so if Superman's feats help Doomsday look more awesome, then Thanos's feats make Drax look more awesome.
Well he did that time, otherwise the feat couldn't be accomplished. Also, Superman has several feats that pawn that (including several infinite feats).Drax doesn't use his energy powers to aid him in his lifting or strength feats the way a Green Lantern would. He uses them to fire his concussive blasts.
The key word is PROVEN. It was proven in HP that entropy could kill DD. It was even confirmed in OWAW. But Brainic saved DD BEFORE entropy even touched DD. Remember that entropy is instant death (not a slow one where DD could adapt). How can any being survive outside of time and space?First of all numerous characters have be described as unkillable (Thanos, Sphinx, and Apocalypse for example) only to be later proven wrong. Secondly,there is a flaw in that theory. If he evolved on the fly as you said and adapts to anything that doesn't kill him out right, then Brainiac saving Doomsday BEFORE entropy could kill him would have allowed Doomsday to "instantly adapt" to entropy making him immune to Imperiex's entropy blast.
Irrelevant. Another waste of typing. We are not arguing whether Juggs can lose but can he lose without those options. I think you are referring to the cartoon of Juggs hitting Glads which is not cannon or relevant anyway to the discussion.If he would lose to an opponent without BFR, mind rape, or enchantment removal according to cannon then he would lose to the same opponent in the forum unless there were stipulations to mix things up a bit. Gladiator not only took a punch from Juggernaut without flinching, he tossed him aside like a sack of potatoes. Neither of which involved BFR, mind rape, or enchantment removal.
Correct. But we can only speculate how much a more intelligent Drax could efficiently he can use the PG.Partially correct, "Infinity Watch Drax" thought it was a "jellybean". Stating "HP Doomsday" is very specific meaning there is no grey area as to which Doomsday. There was no such specificity with Drax. The thread starter simply said "Drax with Power Gem". He didn't specify classic Drax, Infinity Watch Drax, Annihilation Drax etc. To me that implies "pick a version and give him the Power Gem". If a more intelligent version of Drax is picked then his efficiency with the Gem would also change.
Originally posted by h1a8
Correct. But we can only speculate how much a more intelligent Drax could efficiently he can use the PG.
Originally posted by BrockalizerThat is why we can only speculate. Thor for instance didn't seem more than 2x a non holding back Thor with the PG. Thor without the PG has greater strength feats.
Based on what we've seen in the past with any of the Infinity Gems, those that posses the Gem have had varrying results based on their familiarity with the Gems potential, focus, and experience. For example when The Collector had the Reality Gem he didn't realize what he had so was never able to utilize it. Same with Champion, who just thought it was a trinket. Compare that to people like the Infinity Watch, the Hood, and Doctor Doom, who have been much more successful. When Drax had the Power Gem his limited intelligence kept him from tapping very much of the Gems potential, but he was still able to tap into it a little bit.
By himself he might not be able to punch a hole in Doomsday the same way he did Thanos, but with the Power Gem he would certainly be powerful enough to do that, or rip Doomsday's limbs off. Doomsday isn't going to hurt Drax while he has the Gem. When Drax lost it to Thor it wasn't because Thor beat him into submission. Drax had swallowed it and coughed it up out of reflex when he was hit in the gut. Current Drax simply isn't that stupid.LOL! Do you think DD is made out of silly putty? Nothing on Earth (even MM) could put a scratch on the very weakest of versions. HP DD is many times more durable than Superman or any high herald being. And this is not considering his healing abilities or evolving abilities. The OE which instant vapored the two indestructible missles that Superman, with all his might, couldn't even put a scratch on did absolutely nothing to DD. Nothing under Galactus level can seem to harm him.
Current Drax may not presently have his energy blasts, but the Gem would not only give that power back, and allow him access to all forms of power and energy. Certainly he would be able to duplicate the energy Superman used in the sword he used to cut Doomsday or the entropy blast that Imperiex used. Forum rules stipulate that the combatants have knowledge of each other. Drax would know all about Doomsday's origin and capabilities since they are well known to several Super heroes and villains in the DC Universe.You can't make up powers for characters. Characters can only do what they have been shown to be able to do. Drax can't duplicate ANY energy, especially if he doesn't know what it is made out of. You got the forum rules wrong buddy. Only basic knowledge is known by the characters.
[i]Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.[i/]
Surfer can even know that Superman is weak to kryptonite. But he would have no clue on how to make it (besides scanning Superman's body) because he has never encountered it nor have he learned of its chemical makeup.
Forum rules also state that they fight to full capacity. So Drax would fight Doomsday with the same ferocity that he fights Thanos. The combination of an Intelligent Drax, with the Power Gem, and a previous knowledge of what the Gem is, would make Drax MUCH more powerful than anything Doomsday had ever faced.IMO, Drax is not going to put a scratch on HP DD even if DD let him attack first. DD is just too powerful and durable for Drax with the PG. Anyone who can penetrate Superman like he is made of liquid is far beyond Drax with the PG.
To be honest, I would put a non holding back Thor, a CIS off Surfer, and a serious Superman above current Drax with the PG. Part of your debate is based off speculation and what you hope to be true and not what was shown in comics. Drax has to SHOW what he's capable of in order for it to be valid.
Originally posted by h1a8
That is why we can only speculate. Thor for instance didn't seem more than 2x a non holding back Thor with the PG. Thor without the PG has greater strength feats.
Much like you're speculating about Doomsday. Doomsday may be a badass in the DC Universe, in the Marvel Universe he'd just be another brick like Juggernaut. There are two problems with your Thor analysis. For starters when Thor had the gem he was blood lusted and not thinking clearly. So of course he wouldn't make effective use of the Gem. Secondly he didn't have it for very long. Had he kept it after the fight it is highly probable that his feats with it would've bee more impressive.
Originally posted by h1a8What, you think he's made out of adamantium?
LOL! Do you think DD is made out of silly putty? Nothing on Earth (even MM) could put a scratch on the very weakest of versions.
Originally posted by h1a8
HP DD is many times more durable than Superman or any high herald being. And this is not considering his healing abilities or evolving abilities. The OE which instant vapored the two indestructible missles that Superman, with all his might, couldn't even put a scratch on did absolutely nothing to DD. Nothing under Galactus level can seem to harm him. You can't make up powers for characters.
Originally posted by h1a8
Characters can only do what they have been shown to be able to do. Drax can't duplicate ANY energy, especially if he doesn't know what it is made out of.
Drax himself may not be able too, the Power Gem can though.
Originally posted by h1a8
Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.
In the DC Superhero community Doomsday's abilities ARE basic knowledge.
Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, Drax is not going to put a scratch on HP DD even if DD let him attack first. DD is just too powerful and durable for Drax with the PG. Anyone who can penetrate Superman like he is made of liquid is far beyond Drax with the PG.
Drax's previous experience with the Gem and his new level of intelligence would make him potentially the most powerful Gem wielder ever, rivaling Thanos himself.
Originally posted by h1a8
To be honest, I would put a non holding back Thor, a CIS off Surfer, and a serious Superman above current Drax with the PG.
😆 ...oh wait, you're serious, my bad.
Originally posted by h1a8
Part of your debate is based off speculation and what you hope to be true and not what was shown in comics. Drax has to SHOW what he's capable of in order for it to be valid.
And assuming that just because Doomsday beat Superman means that he can beat anyone else isn't speculation? You speculate that he would perform the same against Drax as he did Superman. You speculate that Doomsday is incapable of being injured. You speculate that Drax's current intelligence would play no factor in his ability to use the Power Gem.