Marka Ragnos, DN Luke and Exar Kun Run the Guantlet

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, you fail to understand that applicability is a continuum. The only case you can say is that Jar Jar vs. Ragnos is more apparent than Luke vs. Kun.

You can still apply logic to Luke vs. Kun. Got it? I could extrapolate things 50 times over and apply logic for Ajunta vs. Tulak, but it doesn't guarantee accuracy.

Good job, parrotting the same insults over and over when you're clueless though.

Where do you see an insult? Do your reading comprehension skills go down the drain everytime you are angry champ? And if you COULD apply logic to Luke vs. Kun, then you would be able to deduce who is superior, no?. Since you've clearly stated that you can't really make an argument for either one, I guess this falls into the black and white area, doesn't it? Oh yea, go ahead and apply logic to Ajunta Pall vs. Tulak Hord...Oh wait, you can't? Aww.... Quit while you're behind.

Originally posted by tdtd
Where do you see an insult? Do your reading comprehension skills go down the drain everytime you are angry champ? And if you COULD apply logic to Luke vs. Kun, then you would be able to deduce who is superior, no?. Since you've clearly stated that you can't really make an argument for either one, I guess this falls into the black and white area, doesn't it? Oh yea, go ahead and apply logic to Ajunta Pall vs. Tulak Hord...Oh wait, you can't? Aww.... Quit while you're behind.

Sure you could. You'd just need about 50 logical deductions and deductions based off deductions. It wouldn't be accurate after so much extrapolation, but you could still apply logic to it. Great job understanding logic, tiger. That's what I said in the previous post.

Yup, that's a great example of reading comprehension for ya.

Seriously, if you want to look clueless, keep talking, I'll wait for you to catch up.

You can apply logic to any fight, yet this doesn't mean that you will get a definitive answer. If it is something as trivial as Ragnos vs. Jar Jar, you will get a definitive answer when you rule out luck and chance as I have said before. For close fights, you just have to go off the information that you know about both characters. You can't base arguements off of what you don't know about characters ie. "Kun wasn't at his full potential blah blah blah" With the information that we know about Luke and Kun, it is obvious (to me at least) that Luke will win. I hope all of you Kun fanboys don't piss your pants when you face the truth.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
You can apply logic to any fight, yet this doesn't mean that you will get a definitive answer. If it is something as trivial as Ragnos vs. Jar Jar, you will get a definitive answer when you rule out luck and chance as I have said before. For close fights, you just have to go off the information that you know about both characters. You can't base arguements off of what you don't know about characters ie. "Kun wasn't at his full potential blah blah blah" With the information that we know about Luke and Kun, it is obvious (to me at least) that Luke will win. I hope all of you Kun fanboys don't piss your pants when you face the truth.

That's the entire point. Apparently though, tdtd says you can't apply logic to imaginary circumstances.

I'd like for you to establish how is it that Luke will obviously beat Kun, and put it in relevant context, please. Maybe you can do what tdtd obviously fails at.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Sure you could. You'd just need about 50 logical deductions and deductions based off deductions. It wouldn't be accurate after so much extrapolation, but you could still apply logic to it. Great job understanding logic, tiger. That's what I said in the previous post.

Yup, that's a great example of reading comprehension for ya.

Seriously, if you want to look clueless, keep talking, I'll wait for you to catch up.

Are you kidding me? Please tell me you're joking. For the last time stop embarassing yourself. And while you're behind, please give me a logical argument for Hord and Pall... I'd like to see it...

I'd like for you to establish how is it that Luke will obviously beat Kun, and put it in relevant context, please. Maybe you can do what tdtd obviously fails at.
^Apparently Illustrious ignores the numerous posts involving me telling him to do the exact opposite. His only response is "No you!". Nice logic tiger!

Originally posted by tdtd
Are you kidding me? Please tell me you're joking. For the last time stop embarassing yourself. And while you're behind, please give me a logical argument for Hord and Pall... I'd like to see it...

I'd like for you to establish how is it that Luke will obviously beat Kun, and put it in relevant context, please. Maybe you can do what tdtd obviously fails at.
^Apparently Illustrious ignores the numerous posts involving me telling him to do the exact opposite. His only response is "No you!". Nice logic tiger!

I have given relevant context, slugger. You just gloss over it because it disagrees with what you want.

Kun tooled Vodo and Odan with relative ease. These are two extremely experienced, revered Jedi Masters who mastered the use of the force.

That's superior to Luke slashing up NON-FORCE users.

All the other instances have no relevance. Luke isn't opening a black hole while he's fighting Kun, so a feat like that does nothing. Luke isn't cloaking a ship while he's fighting Kun, so that doesn't mean anything.

Got it yet?

Tooting your own horn isn't going to make me be behind. You rehashing your same old statements, regardless of how badly you look though, is quite comical.

Originally posted by Illustrious
That's the entire point. Apparently though, tdtd says you can't apply logic to imaginary circumstances.

I'd like for you to establish how is it that Luke will obviously beat Kun, and put it in relevant context, please. Maybe you can do what tdtd obviously fails at.

Originally posted by Illustrious
I have given relevant context, slugger. You just gloss over it because it disagrees with what you want.

Kun tooled Vodo and Odan with relative ease. These are two extremely experienced, revered Jedi Masters who mastered the use of the force.

That's superior to Luke slashing up [b]NON-FORCE users.

All the other instances have no relevance. Luke isn't opening a black hole while he's fighting Kun, so a feat like that does nothing. Luke isn't cloaking a ship while he's fighting Kun, so that doesn't mean anything.

Got it yet?

Tooting your own horn isn't going to make me be behind. You rehashing your same old statements, regardless of how badly you look though, is quite comical. [/B]

Ok you're right, I am now laughing at you. Do you understand the difference between non force users and users that aren't a part of the force? I didn't think so. Kun tooling Vodo and Odan with ease somehow makes him superior to NJO Luke? So Luke's emerald lightning on the as you call them, "non force users" is not impressive? You know, I thought NJO Luke=Kun or even more likely Kun>NJO Luke but so far you've shown nothing that would put him above Luke. Your reading comprehension is the only thing comical.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
Take some of Luke's feats for example. Based on what we know about Kun, when you place him in Luke's situation do you think he could have done some of the things that Luke has done? I don't.

I'm sure Illustrious will have some new evidence to back up his "logic".

Originally posted by Illustrious

That's superior to Luke slashing up [b]NON-FORCE users.

All the other instances have no relevance. Luke isn't opening a black hole while he's fighting Kun, so a feat like that does nothing. Luke isn't cloaking a ship while he's fighting Kun, so that doesn't mean anything.
[/B]

Originally posted by tdtd
Ok you're right, I am now laughing at you. Do you understand the difference between non force users and users that aren't a part of the force? I didn't think so. Kun tooling Vodo and Odan with ease somehow makes him superior to NJO Luke? So Luke's emerald lightning on the as you call them, "non force users" is not impressive? You know, I thought NJO Luke=Kun or even more likely Kun>NJO Luke but so far you've shown nothing that would put him above Luke. Your reading comprehension is the only thing comical.

Yes, they are non-force users. If you are not part of the force, you aren't a force user. That doesn't mean you can't be hurt if I shock you with lightning, or if I drop a building on you, or if I puncture your head with blaster bolts. 'Kay?

The fact of the matter is that they still don't have force powers or weapons that cut through nearly anything like Jedi do.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
1. Yes, THOUSANDS non-force users.
2. I know that these things wont help Luke in a fight, but if he is capable of doing them, then he is obviously a VERY strong force user. Being a strong force user WILL help you in a fight.

Okay, like I said. Aleema has casted illusions on a grander scale than Luke has. Does that mean Aleema > Kun?

Again, performing various feats with the force does not indicate that it translates directly into battlefield ability. It's your job to prove that it does.

Even Sylvar could hack her way through massassi, who also are non-force users. Unless you're suggesting that Kun can't slash his way through an army of non-force users, or that Kun's on-battle prowess counts for less than Luke's out-of-battle demonstration of force power, then the point is moot.

Ok and you don't consider, that using the force on enemies that aren't part of the force, impressive? I believe it's very impressive.. For all we know Kun could do it too or he could not. My point is you haven't provided an argument that puts Kun>NJO Luke in a 1 on 1 fight, even though I agree that Kun is on par with NJO Luke or better.

Originally posted by tdtd
Ok and you don't consider, that using the force on enemies that aren't part of the force, impressive? I believe it's very impressive.. For all we know Kun could do it too or he could not. My point is you haven't provided an argument that puts Kun>NJO Luke in a 1 on 1 fight, even though I agree that Kun is on par with NJO Luke or better.

Like I mentioned. Just because they aren't part of the force doesn't mean they can't be hurt by physical properties and manifestations of the force.

If I drop a rock on a Vong's head with the force, he will still feel it. If I shoot lightning at a Vong, he will still get shocked.

So no, instakilling a user that does not use the force, and thus has no defense against a force-based attack, is not as impressive as instakilling (or killing within a panel if you're super nitpicky) a venerable Jedi Master who has fought the ancient Sith.

Right, you can't call me picky because he never actually performed an instakill. But how can you say "if I shoot lightning at a Vong". You and I both know there's a little more to using a force power on a being not of the force.. But I find Luke slicing an army of Vong, who could take Jedi, and them the Supreme Overlord, who could take several Jedi, on par with Kun defeating Vodo in a lightsaber duel and then pwning Odan Urr. Does that mean I think Luke>Kun? No, I only think DN Luke, and older>Kun.. And I think NJO Luke=Kun.. Which is all opinion because neither side have proven otherwise.

Originally posted by tdtd
Right, you can't call me picky because he never actually performed an instakill. But how can you say "if I shoot lightning at a Vong". You and I both know there's a little more to using a force power on a being not of the force.. But I find Luke slicing an army of Vong, who could take Jedi, and them the Supreme Overlord, who could take several Jedi, on par with Kun defeating Vodo in a lightsaber duel and then pwning Odan Urr. Does that mean I think Luke>Kun? No, I only think DN Luke, and older>Kun.. And I think NJO Luke=Kun.. Which is all opinion because neither side have proven otherwise.

That's fine, but I want to know why you feel DN Luke > Kun. The feats in DN are not necessarily more impressive than NJO, Luke did not accomplish something so awe-inspiring that he would simply blow Kun out of the water. So why would your opinion change?

The manipulating of black holes, creating illusions, guiding ships with the force, manipulating planets, defeating Raynar. Not necessarily tools for defeating Kun in a 1 on 1 but the feats are a lot more impressive.

Originally posted by tdtd
The manipulating of black holes, creating illusions, guiding ships with the force, manipulating planets, defeating Raynar. Not necessarily tools for defeating Kun in a 1 on 1 but the feats are a lot more impressive.

Black holes, guiding ships, and illusions were done in NJO, so why would that belief change in DN?

Are they more impressive? Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Is he more impressive than Kun? Aleema created bigger illusions, is she more impressive than Luke?

How impressive the feat is isn't as simple as that.

All that is in NJO? Wtf is in DN then?

You know what I find hilarious. Everyone always says "prove up" when an assumption of one character being > another. There is no proof people!! These characters were in different times and no SW author has ever compared them.

We can use logic to guess who might be stronger, but all we really have are some lower limits to what either of them could do.

My best guess sometimes one would win sometimes the other. It would depend on the situation, and who got lucky.

-edit-

PS Quit going on about Lukes lightsaber skills vs the Vong meaning nothing because they were non force users. They were skilled Warriors. They had extensive training and they could take out jedi. Their amphistaffs were just as effective as lightsabers, and in some ways more versatile. Lightsabers could not cut through them. Worthy opponents indeed!

And when you add in that they had armor that was also lightsaber resistant, it becomes more impressive.